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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/29/2007 7:28:32 AM   
SweetSarijane


Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah



I understand that the healed portion of a once-broken bone can be stronger afterward than before. I understand the points you've made too, though.

Thank you for sharing.



You're welcome

I've heard that as well about broken bones, but everyone I've personally known who's had one (and yes there are several) has had it turn out to be a weakened area, some more so than others. Worth doing a little research into though. I'll check my Mercs and see if there's anything in there about it and see if some medical sites have info on it as well. Got me curious now.

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/29/2007 8:23:21 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather


quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

in my line of work (i'm always in the public eye), it would be hard to explain my sudden and overnight bone breakage


Is this intended to mean that slow breaks developing over weeks would be easier for you to explain?



i suppose you didn't read what was posted above - it's an extreme hard limit for me and i would not do it.  i love my body too much to have someone break it so they could get off.

too sadistic ...not for me and my Doms

< Message edited by sambamanslilgirl -- 10/29/2007 8:26:43 AM >

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/29/2007 8:32:09 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		hard limit. Includes destroying the nind as well.

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/29/2007 8:35:38 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

The vanilla guy in high school who left a wee bruise on your rump from holding on while you bucked was busy breaking your cappilaries. When you've been pierced the largest organ of your body was broken. Do these breakings demonstrate that whomever you did them with failed to value you?

not that its particularly relevant to the conversation...but i was a virgin until i was 18 because i refused to have sex with the dumb fucks that were my age, and i did not want to risk any of my boyfriends getting arrested because my father is psycho...and we are talking about bones being broken, not organs...you can't change the premise half way through...its against the rules....

quote:


It is a matter of degree of behavior, not kind of behavior. I'm content to let you draw your lines where you comfortably find them.

And once again this curious notion that a Sadist would enjoy service less the more difficult and painful it may be to perform. That doesn't make any kind of sense to me. So I guess we cash out even.

Too bad we couldn't do so without one of us casting derogatory allusions.



i know the limitations of my body, and my body alone...which is what i was talking about, only...just mine...not anyone elses...we are clear on that...right? and a broken bone would make it impossible to fully serve him in all the ways that i do, whether its a broken arm or a broken toe...because my service is not about sadism and masochism...my service is about service....and getting the service done...i do have more than one facit to my life...amazing a concept as that maybe....

chelle


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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/29/2007 9:22:56 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		Mm.  I find the idea of breaking my sub, and then taking care of her while she heals, very enticing.  I go the route of extreme sports--climbing, river rafting, and in the future martial arts (I'm a beginner there)--push her completely, exhaust her and then push her even more, until she's at total muscle failure, covered in bruises, and literally unable to move.  A bone break or similar--I'd discuss the possibility before hand, and if it happened then I'd take ownership of it happening to her.  Anyway, when she is absolutely helpless from doing what I'd asked, I use the recovery time as a bonding experience.  Cooking, pampering, etc.; so that when she can move again, she values doing those things for me even more.  And as a bonus, even a gentle round of sex while she is bedridden is somewhat painful and sadistic to do to her, and she's be completely helpless even without benefit of restraints.  She doesn't have the strength to move, she simply has to accept any way I wanted to use her.  She can still beg, though.

Delicious.  If I needed to ratchet up the intensity for her, I could see a deliberate bone break like that happening.  But I'd have to plan for it like I would a european vacation, which is a pain in the ass for me, so I wouldn't do it lightly.  She'd have to really need something like that to get to the next level.

(edited for verb tenses.  Twice. Being a grammar nazi is a pain sometimes.)

< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 10/29/2007 9:26:55 AM >

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/29/2007 12:11:41 PM   
batshalom


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Joined: 9/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

And I especially liked the part about making you nauseous and panicky.

Or were you just flirting?



The nauseous panicky part was true. Eh! So was the flirting!

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/29/2007 2:32:11 PM   
wisteriaV


Posts: 438
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline 		Ok no one else said it so I will. The idea of haveing your bones broke for the sake of play is fucking nuts!

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/29/2007 2:54:50 PM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wisteriaV

Point blank any one getting off on cutting people up and breaking bones is freakin nuts..

quote:

Ok no one else said it so I will. The idea of haveing your bones broke for the sake of play is fucking nuts! 


I guess then that you would consider yourself to be no one since that is the second time you have said that.

You don't like it.... we fucking get that... get over it now

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/29/2007 3:09:26 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wisteriaV

Ok no one else said it so I will. The idea of haveing your bones broke for the sake of play is fucking nuts!



Mm. Wisteria. I can see where you're coming from, and if it were play only I probably would have nothing to do with it. But ... I see it being existential, way past the physical, far beyond logic.

Look at hitting and cutting, for example. It isn't logical to allow someone to do such a thing but it happens all the time. This is just another rung on that ladder, and yeah, a definite bonding experience.

It's not something I'm likely to run out and try ... but if the dynamic were such that it could include it ... sure. I've done lots of things that scared me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

Are you always so perspicacious?


Rarely.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/29/2007 3:18:01 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I love bruises, marks and scars.  Right now I have multiple bruises on my body from our play on Saturday.  Some of the most prominent are on the upper part of my right arm and my left thigh has a knotted bruise from where he punched me hard enough to give me a charlie horse.  I think I got that for kicking him in the solar plexus hard enough to knock the wind out of him.  He made sure that I wouldn't be able to use that leg to kick with again.

I also have a permanent scar on the outside of my right thigh.  It is a pair of crossed swords that he cut into me about two year ago and he will recut them as needed to make sure they remain visible.  The point was to be permanently marked.  I mark very easily, so we expect that I will carry marks from our SM for months or even years.  Finger nail scratches tend to last a long time on me.

These things I really get off on and enjoy.  With many of them it is a love/hate relationship.  The intentional breaking of bones is an activity that would take quite a bit of work for me to not be mentally and emotionally harmed from it.  Unintentionally breaking them, well, shit happens and the way we play at times I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.

Knight's Kyra

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/30/2007 12:40:20 AM   
hermione83


Posts: 393
Joined: 8/1/2007
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quote:

Mm.  I find the idea of breaking my sub, and then taking care of her while she heals, very enticing.  I go the route of extreme sports--climbing, river rafting, and in the future martial arts (I'm a beginner there)--push her completely, exhaust her and then push her even more, until she's at total muscle failure, covered in bruises, and literally unable to move.  A bone break or similar--I'd discuss the possibility before hand, and if it happened then I'd take ownership of it happening to her.  Anyway, when she is absolutely helpless from doing what I'd asked, I use the recovery time as a bonding experience.  Cooking, pampering, etc.; so that when she can move again, she values doing those things for me even more.  And as a bonus, even a gentle round of sex while she is bedridden is somewhat painful and sadistic to do to her, and she's be completely helpless even without benefit of restraints.  She doesn't have the strength to move, she simply has to accept any way I wanted to use her.  She can still beg, though.

Delicious.  If I needed to ratchet up the intensity for her, I could see a deliberate bone break like that happening.  But I'd have to plan for it like I would a european vacation, which is a pain in the ass for me, so I wouldn't do it lightly.  She'd have to really need something like that to get to the next level.



This is honestly the scariest thing I have seen here so far. It makes me want to never hear the word "sadist" again, for some reason...  Especially the part about how it would make her value doing those chores for you even more. What?

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/30/2007 1:16:37 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		Relax, Hermione.  Ever been to basic training?  I myself have had days like that, where I was too sore (and damaged) to move.  I've also had them after a really intense camping/high adventure trip.  I healed, and I got a LOT stronger for it, externally and internally.  And the drill seargants look after you--in their way--when that happens. I wouldn't be a drill sergeant, I'd be a lot more intimate than that, but that's where I'm coming from, you grok?  I can see how, with a willing slave who needs to feel that intense high, this is a strategy that works.  And afterwards, if she knows--has a memory she can point to--that when the chips are down and she's knocked out, she will be taken care of, then she will (if she's the type to make this connection) value the day-to-day routine a lot more.  If she *wants* to serve, but temporarily cannot, then when she's back in action she'll get back into it with a vengeance.  A moment like that to provide hightlight to the daily routine, in my personal experience, is a tie that binds. 

And yeah, sadism is scary.  So is masochism.  But the moment of truth, when I'm two inches from her face and pushing her to go a little bit further... and she looks at me, and does it... begging, pleading to stop, but she does it... Yeah.  better than drugs.  And it has the upside of being an ego boost for both to prove that we can go there, and if done right it makes her stronger.


_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to hermione83)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/30/2007 8:03:41 AM   
SweetSarijane


Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Unintentionally breaking them, well, shit happens and the way we play at times I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.

Knight's Kyra


That's what I forgot to mention in my original reply in this thread. Thank you kyra. Accidentally, well, as you said, shit happens, and it's something I could deal with fine and just likely be pissed that I was out of commision for awhile; no real mental trauma unless you count feeling stupid it happened if it was my fault.

It's still the deliberate that would be a limit for me and a hard one, especially due to my current physical condition.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/30/2007 8:23:05 AM   
phedre81


Posts: 56
Joined: 10/29/2007
Status: offline 		For me, it would be a hard limit, though I think, Noah, that you make excellent points--the idea of a broken bone REALLY squicks me.  Really.  Squicking of the nauseating, breaking into sweat variety. 

And yet, you make an excellent point about the fact that what we're talking here is a difference of degree, not type--I'm fine with skin being broken, with bruises, welts--these are exciting to me.

Broken bones?  I don't actually KNOW why it's a hard limit for me.  It's not the drawn out part of the pain--I love when my bruises last for days.  I suppose the problem is that the drawn out nature of it makes me FEEL more (rather illogically) that the actions would be DAMAGING my body in a more permanent, severe way than any of our other play.

Plus, it would probably be off the scale as far as the level of pain I can handle.

PLUS, I feel just, personally opposed to any intentional action that would require me to consult a doctor, potentially have to have an operation, etc. 

It frightens me to say that your OP made sense, and my reasoning makes less sense.

I'm just glad that I CAN set hard limits, even if they aren't logical!!

(in reply to SweetSarijane)
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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/30/2007 5:18:47 PM   
Noah


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Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twelveroundsfan

When I'm feeling submissive, I occasionally fantasize that a woman is *about* to do something along the lines you've mentioned--break my arm, snap my fingers one by one, kick my ribs until they break. The brutality itself is always censored; I either flash forward to the time when I've learned my lesson and I'm recuperating under her care, or I go back and play out the whole terrifying lead-up scene again in greater detail. What turns me on is the thought of my total obedience after I've been "broken," and to a lesser extent the terror before, rather than the pain itself.



Thanks for such a forthcoming response, twelverounds. The lacuna in your fantasy is interesting in itself. I suppose if your whupping were bad enough it might even leave that hole in your memory.

I've noticed that another poster has brought up the "recuperating under (dom)'s care" idea. I wonder how many people would appreciate that. I mean whether the recuperation was from an inflicted injury or just an illness or whatever. The role reversal would mess some people up, I think, but there are so many ways one could contextualize the experience that I expect there could be several kinds of responses to it at least, some simple, some conflicted.


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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/30/2007 5:20:12 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat

about 5 years ago now....i tripped and fell.  broke my left kneecap and my right wrist.  since no one else in the house was able to pitch in, i was up and doing again within 48 hours....because no one else would.  the wrist didnt heal right, the knee didnt either.  when i broke the kneecap the second time, it got fixed correctly.

at the time of the original injury, i was doing all the nursing care for my first Sir, who had just gotten out of the hospital with a foot injury.  i was relieved i could still drive him back and forth to dr visits.

you can do a LOT more than you think you can.  would i let someone deliberately break my bones?  no.  i know my healing time is roughly twice what it should be, and it would not be right for me to agree to something that would take me out of service for that long.

kitten, whose Daddy wouldnt do that anyway


Thanks for the cautionary tale about the way healing time can vary between individuals.

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/30/2007 5:25:52 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah


I've noticed that another poster has brought up the "recuperating under (dom)'s care" idea. I wonder how many people would appreciate that. I mean whether the recuperation was from an inflicted injury or just an illness or whatever. The role reversal would mess some people up, I think, but there are so many ways one could contextualize the experience that I expect there could be several kinds of responses to it at least, some simple, some conflicted.





Mmmm. Noah. I gotta tell ya. DMF's "breaking a sub and then taking care of her while she recuperates" post was a reason to embrace the idea of being broken. It put it all into context, at least for me, a rounding of "what will you do for me" into "what energy we create together." Absolutely luscious and almost unbearably tempting. Yin to yang, in an extreme way, just as Dom to sub, Master to slave, Aba to yaldah.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/30/2007 5:31:39 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

this would be an extreme hard limit and also causing my Doms legal problems with the law if they happen to bring me to the hospital to get a cast.  here in IL, hospitals are required to report to the police anything what they see as abuse (even without the woman's consent).


Maybe I'm a little dense, but I don't understand this concern. If you fell and broke your (this or that) quite accidentally and he took you to the hospital, would they see it as abuse and arrest him for it?

You certainly have a right to privacy about happens consensually in your own home, let's say. If you didn't tell the nice hospital folks any more than they need to know to properly treat you, how would this concern of your arise?


quote:

in my line of work (i'm always in the public eye), it would be hard to explain my sudden and overnight bone breakage - that's merely being sadistic to the extreme and definitely not for me.


A very similar question applies here but I see that someone already asked it below, sort of. If you caught your hand on a car door/merry-go-round/whatever and broke your wrist, this would be just as "overnight" as if you did it at home with your special subbie barrettes on. Presumably the public would not tar and feather either you or your partner for that.

How is it--presuming you exercise your right to privacy--that the public would have any more trouble with the kinky injury than the vanilla one?

And yes, the idea is almost rediculously extreme and not for almost anyone, I suppose. I guess that word almost is where the idea for this thread came from.

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RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/30/2007 5:32:46 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

(Did he bust your face for getting that ugly tattoo?)

LMAO He gave me the first tatt


I get it. Humiliation Play. He must be way hardcore to subject you to anything so aesthetically brutal <shiver>

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Breaking a submissive, as such - 10/30/2007 5:34:34 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wisteriaV

Point blank any one getting off on cutting people up and breaking bones is freakin nuts..


No, I think having your nuts freaked is a whole other kink.



(in reply to wisteriaV)
Profile   Post #: 80
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