• You and beth are driving along one fine sunny California morning and about to pass an intersection.  Although you're driving, you fail to notice the car approaching from the side and obviously about to run the red light and t-bone your car.  But beth sees it clearly.  Does beth yell "STOP!!" to you as you enter the intersection, or does she keep her mouth shut because she's not the one in control and should not be giving you orders?  Or does it depend upon which side of the car is going to be hit? 
  
• You've just finished a wonderful dinner that beth cooked, and sit down in your favorite chair to relax.  As you're about to light a cigar, beth notices the odor of gas and realizes that the gas starter on the fireplace has been left on.  Does she yell "STOP!!" before you light the match, or does she keep her mouth shut because she's not the one in control and should not be giving you orders?  Or does it depend upon the value of your life insurance policy? 
  
• You're headed to work one morning and beth, being the loving girl that she is, walks you out to the car and kisses you through the open driver's side window.  As you shift the car into reverse and look over your shoulder to back out of the driveway, beth notices that your child is sitting behind the car playing jacks, too low for you to see through the back window.  Does she yell "STOP!!" before you run over your child, or does she keep her mouth shut because she's not the one in control and should not be giving you orders?  Or does it depend upon whether your answer is hypothetical and theoretical?

• The weatherman issues a tornado warning in the middle of the scene, and the Dominant/Top stops to assess the danger.  Does that mean all weathermen are now in charge of scenes?  No, the Dominant/Top was simply presented with some additional information which he processed and assessed. 
  
• The cat rubs against one of the candles in the scene, lighting itself like a torch and begins running around the room.  The Dominant/Top stops to douse the smoldering remains of fluffy.  Does that mean that all cats are now in charge of scenes?  No, the Dominant/Top was simply prsented with some additional information which he processed, assessed, and decided to act upon. 
  
• Little Timmy, Jr. can be heard opening the door to the bedroom in the middle of his parent's scene and shouts "Stop!!" as he sees daddy whipping mommy.  The Dominant/Top stops to put little Timmy, Jr. back to bed and then lock his own door upon return to the bedroom.  Does that mean that all children are now in charge of scenes?  No, the Dominant/Top was simply presented with some additional information which he processed, assessed, and decided to act upon. 
  
• In the middle of their scene, the bottom conveys that a problem exists, in that the chains have become bound and are pinching her skin so tightly that the excruciating (and "bad") pain is preventing her from achieving her Master's desired state of mind.  Does that mean that the submissive/bottom is in charge?  No, the Dominant/Top was simply presented with some additional information which he processed, assessed, and decided to act upon.

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Your position then is safe-words are great when used correctly and dangerous when they are used incorrectly. The bottom line then is; don't rely on them, and don't think you are safe using them. That's been my position from the first post.

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I guess the person is an "idiot" then in your mind. I don't assign those names to someone who didn't hear. It happened - I say it can happen and does versus calling the occurrence an example of idiocy. I can live with that difference in our interpretation of that person's experience

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I would represent that my ability to discern a "hysterical" scream from beth is contingent upon never having heard one. I won't attempt to try and provide proof of a negative. However, I'm confident, and more importantly beth is confident that the condition you describe will not take place. Further, I'd have the opinion that it would be much more likely to occur WITH a safe-word.

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You'll have to take that up with the people who gave the examples. I wouldn't be so callous and assuming that their dom "didn't give a shit about" them.

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Apparently you applied another's position to me. I've ended many of my comments with the sentiment that if they work for you "use and enjoy" your safe-word. I didn't try to convert anyone, although at least one person indicated that they were converted. I hope it works out for them as much as I hope that the people who use safe-words don't have similar or worse experiences as those related.

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Why is there a need for me to acknowledge anything about anyone else's method of communication? I didn't think anyone required validation, from me of all people

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Yes it is my belief that they are dangerous for all the reasons, examples, and potential situations that I gave. What's your problem with that? It's not like I created any BDSM law that you, or anyone else, has to follow

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I'm entangled in nothing. My relationship is 24/7 has no safe-words and the dominance within it comes from me and me alone. I belief having safe-words in play during a scene can create a dangerous environment. I belief that a dominant who gives or requires a safe word shirks some if not all of their responsibility for the safety and well being of the submissive. I belief that a submissive having the ability to use a safe-word has the ability to stop what is happening. I belief the stopping, under the power of the use of a safe-word gives dominance to the submission. Those are my beliefs. They are active, consistent, and acted upon without doubt or hesitation by the only person it matters - the woman who is my slave.

• You and beth are driving along one fine sunny California morning and about to pass an intersection.  Although you're driving, you fail to notice the car approaching from the side and obviously about to run the red light and t-bone your car.  But beth sees it clearly.  Beth yells "STOP" (or "Red" if you prefer) as you enter the intersection (because it is her door about to be hit) giving dominance to her and making you submissive to her direction.   
  
• You've just finished a wonderful dinner that beth cooked, and sit down in your favorite chair to relax.  As you're about to light a cigar, beth notices the odor of gas and realizes that the gas starter on the fireplace has been left on.  Beth yells "STOP!!" (or "Red" if you prefer) before you light the match (because you are insufficiently insured) giving dominance to her and making you submissive to her direction.
  
• You're headed to work one morning and beth, being the loving girl that she is, walks you out to the car and kisses you through the open driver's side window.  As you shift the car into reverse and look over your shoulder to back out of the driveway, beth notices that your child is sitting behind the car playing jacks, too low for you to see through the back window.  Beth yells "STOP!!" (or "Red" if you prefer) before you run over your child giving dominance to her and making you submissive to her direction (and because she knows that, practically speaking, our decisions in life have quite a few more consequences than theoretical questions on a bulletin board). 

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ORIGINAL: xoxi

Rover none of those situations you described are analogous to a safeword.

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From what I have always been told the point of a safeword (code red, not code yellow) is to end play immediately. 

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When two people agree to use a safeword they are agreeing when this word is spoken the Top will stop instantly. 

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Obviously he might be a sociopathic creep who doesn't adhere to the safeword, but the point is that IF safewords are used correctly they are a command that MUST be followed.

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Of course I can command my Master.  I can say "Stop there's a squirrel in the road!" which is a command.  But according to the paradigm of our relationship he doesn't HAVE to stop.  We never agreed "if I say squirrel you stop the car" - I'm commanding him yes, but it's not obligatory for him to listen. Christ I could also command him to make me breakfast in bed and give me a foot rub - but just because I command it doesn't mean he's going to do it. 

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The only way you could compare any of those situations you listed to a safe word is if you defined a safe word as something that a Top/Master/Dominant may or may not stop for, depending on if he wants to. 

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I'm sorry but if I'm at a play party screaming 'red' and my Master doesn't stop, I don't think the host will be very happy if his excuse is "well a safe word just means she wants me to stop it doesn't mean I *have* to stop."

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Even if I say to him "Stop there's an old man in the street" he still doesn't HAVE to listen.  He might not stop - he might swerve instead.  Or honk.  Or he might stop.  But if he did, it would still be his choice.

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ORIGINAL: phedre81

What I'm still confused on, is if you're using a safe word to mean something other than that the Top must stop immediately, what's the difference between using the safe word to communicate, and using another phrase (ie, Master, my knee is dislocated)

It seems like if the Top is paying attention, "ow, ow, OW!" is quite different from "WAIT, STOP, my KNEE" which, as has been pointed out, is far more communicative than "Red."

I can see safewords as being helpful for people who are not that familiar with one another yet--in this way, when they are used as a command to stop all play immediately, I DO see them as giving the bottom a means of retaining a measure of control.

What I don't understand is, if using them the other way--not as a command to stop, but as a way to say, "Hey, I have information" why use a "safeword" at all--why not just give the information?

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
If a couple is doing a forced sex role play or interrogation play, any other phrase or word maybe confused with the real intention of the bottom in question. A code word that tells the dominant that what the bottom is saying is not about the scene, but instead is a real need to stop and be evaluated, could be very helpful and necessary for certain types of play.

When I fly I can get into a disassociated state to some extent, where it is hard to state what I am thinking coherently. "Red" is a lot easier to say quickly than entire sentences or paragraphs. Once he can stop what he is doing, assess the situation, he can decide what needs to be done to continue or if he wants to continue.... I do not see that as hard to understand

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ORIGINAL: phedre81

What I'm still confused on, is if you're using a safe word to mean something other than that the Top must stop immediately, what's the difference between using the safe word to communicate, and using another phrase (ie, Master, my knee is dislocated)

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It seems like if the Top is paying attention, "ow, ow, OW!" is quite different from "WAIT, STOP, my KNEE" which, as has been pointed out, is far more communicative than "Red."

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I can see safewords as being helpful for people who are not that familiar with one another yet--in this way, when they are used as a command to stop all play immediately, I DO see them as giving the bottom a means of retaining a measure of control.

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What I don't understand is, if using them the other way--not as a command to stop, but as a way to say, "Hey, I have information" why use a "safeword" at all--why not just give the information?

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ORIGINAL: phedre81

Thanks so much for taking the time to give detail about how a safeword works for you!

I appreciate your points, and you've given me a lot to think about, particularly how a safeword doesn't make you be in control of the situation, and the way it is used as communication between the two of you.

Again, thanks!

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I think your example with the tears makes an excellent point--an action that causes the Top to CHOOSE to stop, is not necessarily controlling the Top or making him stop.

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I enjoy the feeling of helplessness and vulnerability that comes when another person is causing me pain.  As a new Bottom, I DO tend to use safe words, b/c I haven't played with anyone who knows me well enough to KNOW they aren't damaging me, emotionally or physically with the level of pain they're causing.

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I just also know that with my current partner, a firm "STOP, I need a second" would work just as well.

But, clearly, there are scenarios which I have not yet taken part in, in which "STOP, I need a second" might just as easily be laughed at an ignored.

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I think the conclusion I'm coming to is simply that safe words have a place.  Not necessarily in every relationship or interaction, but a valid place nonetheless.