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RE: Humiliation - 11/7/2007 1:22:42 PM   
KindMasterB


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I once gave a writing assignment to a woman I was in a Master/slave relationship with, to write me 1500 words on the subject of humiliation.  While it's apparent, in spots, that she's desperately trying to reach the word count, she still had a lot of terrific things to say:

------------------------------------

HUMILIATION

I believe that it is the nature of the submissive person to yield in surrender and obedience to imposed conditions and treatments; and while some of these conditions and treatments may be easier to yield to than others, I think it is far easier to surrender oneself physically than to relinquish wholeheartedly the inner spirit. Mental submissiveness, as opposed to physical submissiveness, is much more a matter of choice, and is composed of many paradoxical features that render this choice difficult in most cases, and impossible in some. Mental submissiveness involves several qualities:1) honesty - telling the truth; 2) compassion - showing love; 3) valor - not running away from a situation; 4) sacrifice - giving of yourself ; 5) honor - upholding your duty; and lastly 6) humility - being not proud or arrogant; having a feeling of insignificance, inferiority.

When I speak of this or that quality, I am speaking not merely of this or that aspect of mental submissiveness, but of a certain stability in that regard. For example, one can practice humility in an isolated incident or situation, but the quality of humility indicates a habit of so acting.

Humility is both an acquired and an infused quality. The acquired quality of humility assists one to exercise that quality as directed by the natural light of reason; while the infused quality of humility enables and disposes one to exercise that quality as directed by another. This latter involves a whole new dimension to the practice of humility, a whole new outlook, a whole new reason for practicing humility.

The word "humility" is derived from the Latin word humil(us), which means lowly, insignificant, on the ground. Already that tells us much about the nature, meaning and necessity of the quality of humility to the submissive. Humility is a quality that allows one, through the subjugation of arrogance and self-pride, to develop patience and compassion. And patience helps one to encounter frustrations, disappointments, contradictions, privations, hardships, etc. (all of which cause pain) without losing one's serenity, without becoming irritated or despondent. It helps one not to be upset by trivial incidents however unpleasant in our daily lives. It is a quality that every submissive is called upon to exercise frequently.

If we reflect upon the number of times each day that we are confronted with situations, persons and things that displease us, we can see how often humility and patience are needed. They are important because they prepare the way for the practice of all the other qualities. Virtuous action is usually difficult and likely to cause sorrow on the sense level. Humility and patience, by moderating the emotion of sorrow, removes one of the serious obstacles to the practice of the other qualities.

Humility leads to the ability to keep control over the impulse that rises suddenly when something disagreeable happens. It is not just disregard of or indifference to life’s daily irritations or upsetting incidents, but a real control of self, of one’s feelings and impulses. On the contrary, arrogance and pride can lead to the lack of self-control, and lead to other and greater faults. They can easily grow into anger, irritability, harsh words, unpleasantness towards others, etc.

Yet, if humility is an important quality, and much needed in daily life, it is not an easy quality, for it demands much subjugation over our emotions and impulses. It is acquired by slow continual repetition of patient control - in spite of many failures. It is unfortunate, however, that many do not grasp the value of humility, for its natural fruit is calm of mind. The inner spirit of the humble person is not at the mercy of every chance happening. So far I have spoken of humility on the purely natural level, in order to explain what the quality consists in. The exercise of that quality, however, on the purely natural level is a very difficult quality to cultivate, since it is not easy for one to see the advantages of enduring with serenity the pain and humiliation that are inseparable from true submissiveness.

There is a close connection between humility, and awareness of and trust in the Master whom the submissive wishes to serve; an awareness that there is nothing that should happen except that the Master foresees it and allows it, and can bring good out of it if one trusts in his concern for the submissive.

The practice of humility requires that everything be seen in the light of this trust, that everything that happens to the submissive is permitted by her Master, and for her own good. Whatever trials and suffering come to the submissive, it is by the Master's choosing and allows for personal growth. But it takes a deep trust in the Master to be aware of his hand in all matters, and to accept his will in humility and with an interior serenity of mind and heart.

Humiliation infused by the Master allows the submissive to develop this quality beyond the natural light of reason. Acts of humiliation assist in subjugating pride, which causes one to think of oneself as above others. The submissive may think that she is completely able to take care of things, but problems are never far when a high ego is a prominent trait. Self-consciousness, the basis of pride, is a natural state of being which causes the vast majority of every problem we have. The antidote to pride is to develop the quality of humility.

In order to overcome pride, a submissive needs to completely trust her Master. Pride in any form, with the possible exception of pride in ability to obey and serve, can lead to trouble. Pride causes you to seek your own pleasure and to satisfy your own desires. There must be a higher motivation for one's attitudes and behavior.

The higher motivation and the answer to pride for the submissive is to develop humility and compassion. Compassion is unconditional and requires nothing in return. There is no pride, envy, wrong behavior, self-seeking, hurt feelings, impatience, evil thoughts, iniquity, etc., when one has compassion coupled with humility. It is characterized by forbearance and endurance when one is tested. It lasts when all else fails.

Finally, with compassion and humility comes the rest of the qualities of mental submissivenes.

It is important to remember that humiliation should not be considered a punishment. Acts of humiliation serve to strengthen the submissive's ability to develop the inner resources of devotion and courage that allow her to serve her Master to the best of her ability. If a submissive is arrogant then of course, correction should be forthcoming. However, it should be one that is designed to humble as opposed to humiliate. It should be designed to bring down the pride of the submissive or to reduce her to a state of abasement. The correction should produce feelings of chagrin and/or shame, and these painful feelings caused by the consciousness or exposure of unworthy or improper conduct should assist the submissive in eliminating the behavior that led to the need for correction. Differentiating between humiliation, used as a tool to assist the submissive in defeating self-pride and arrogance, and humbling, used as a correction, is very important. The difference should be clear to both the Master and the submissive. Humiliation can be exciting for the submissive due to the total relinquishment of power and will and therefore should not be confused with acts designed to humble and correct, as the power of the correction will be diminished if it is also something that is pleasurable to the submissive. It is difficult to be specific about what acts may be humiliating as opposed to humbling. This involves a certain degree of negotiation between the submissive and her master, in the sense that he must know what to her is humiliating and what should be used to humble. An act that is humiliating to one submissive, may be humbling to another; and indeed, an act imposed by one master that is humiliating to the submissive, may, in turn be humbling if imposed by a different master.

Mental submissiveness is necessary for the mutual satisfaction of the submissive and her Master. It is necessary in order for the submissive to be wholly subject to her Master, to be entirely under the domination of her Master, to be completely controlled by her Master. Dedicated service to one's Master can provide one of the most satisfying relationships one can experience. As for each of us, the satisfactory performance of service and obedience requires the highest degree of integrity, skill, and effort. Without the guidance of one's Master, in allowing the submissive to experience humiliation for instruction and personal growth, humility would be much more difficult to attain. Without humility, the qualities that lead to mental submissiveness: honesty, compassion, valor, sacrifice, and honor, would be much more difficult to attain. Without mental submissiveness, there is not the complete and total surrender and obedience that the very nature of the submissive requires.

< Message edited by KindMasterB -- 11/7/2007 1:26:24 PM >

(in reply to CalifChick)
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RE: Humiliation - 11/7/2007 1:33:58 PM   
CalifChick


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Hmmm.  Maybe it's because I have a headache coming on, but even though they come from the same root words, I don't equate humility (the act of being humble) with humiliation (the act of shaming or mortifying, usually another person).  One can have humility and be humble without being shamed.

But then again, it could be the headache.

Sharon

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RE: Humiliation - 11/7/2007 5:05:14 PM   
Griswold


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It's cheaper than Ho Ho's.

(in reply to deine)
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RE: Humiliation - 11/7/2007 5:24:58 PM   
openmindedslave


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I have a question for those who give out levels of humilation to those who apprecaite it??  Do you find that giving out forms of humilation really gives you great pleasure or do you do it becasue its importain to them more so than you??

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RE: Humiliation - 11/7/2007 6:08:41 PM   
RRafe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: openmindedslave

I have a question for those who give out levels of humilation to those who apprecaite it??  Do you find that giving out forms of humilation really gives you great pleasure or do you do it becasue its importain to them more so than you??


It usually comes from breaking some cultural inhibition, that's not illegal.

Inculcated habits and taboos. It's sort of fun to watch them being struggled with-since I broke the same ones in myself, that I do with others. Gives me a sense of connection,while I watch the struggle.

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RE: Humiliation - 11/7/2007 6:38:39 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: openmindedslave

I have a question for those who give out levels of humilation to those who apprecaite it??  Do you find that giving out forms of humilation really gives you great pleasure or do you do it becasue its importain to them more so than you??


Doing humiliation with someone is something I find enjoyable.  As I noted earlier, for myself, a great deal of that enjoyment comes from knowing what is inside them, even if I know them only well enough to know that one small bit about them...then twisting it in their head and watching the struggle with acceptance and denial of the fact(s) presented, the predicament wished (but the wish denied to themselves) for that they now find themselves in.

Yes, it pleases me that they enjoy it at some level but I would do it whether they enjoyed it less than I did or more than I did.

(in reply to openmindedslave)
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RE: Humiliation - 11/7/2007 6:41:36 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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LOL and I thought I got too intellectual with my essay.  It's like the difference between me as someone who loves bondage and goes at it with a few ties every few weeks and hearing all these people go into complex shibari poses and wax about the line of the rope enhancing the security within.

Really, it's hot, it's rare for me to be with someone who's good at it, so when I do, I REALLY love it.

The rest is just extra bullshit to ponder occasionally.

_____________________________

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Humiliation - 11/7/2007 6:50:24 PM   
RRafe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

LOL and I thought I got too intellectual with my essay.  It's like the difference between me as someone who loves bondage and goes at it with a few ties every few weeks and hearing all these people go into complex shibari poses and wax about the line of the rope enhancing the security within.

Really, it's hot, it's rare for me to be with someone who's good at it, so when I do, I REALLY love it.

The rest is just extra bullshit to ponder occasionally.


I practice ropework constantly, even on myself-when no one else is availble. Not a personal turn on-but you have to keep at it to be any good.

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RE: Humiliation - 11/7/2007 6:58:47 PM   
slavegirljoy


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From: North Carolina, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: deine

What is the appeal of humiliation for you?

i love feeling like i am my Master's puppet.  It excites me to know that He has that much power over me, that He can make me do anything He wants, any time, anywhere.  He just pulls an invisible string, sometimes with words, sometimes with just a look, and i dance and do whatever He wants.  When other people are around, who can see how He manipulates me with just His eyes, it excites me even more, even though they might not even notice what's happening.  Just the thought of me being publicly exposed as my Master's puppet excites me.  It's just another part of my masochism.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to deine)
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RE: Humiliation - 11/7/2007 7:39:42 PM   
ChicagoSwitchMal


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Wow. This is an interesting question for me. I've considered removing 'switch' from name and profile since I have never really done anything but Dom. There's been simulations, but nothing genuine. The idea of experimenting with the other side appeals to me and it has to do with humiliation. How do I explain this? Hummmm. If a man so much as slaps a woman he is an asshole. However if a woman cuts off a man penis it's somehow 'funny' and the woman is silently a hero. If a woman get fired from work and cries on her way out everyone feels sorry for her. But if a man cries on his way out people are stiffleling a chuckle. If a woman is caught masturbating - it's hot! If a man is caught masturbating he is public exposed as not being able to get laid. In male to male conflict the loser is always the one who pauses, stutters, or can't think of anything to say. If it gets physical the loser is the one who backed down and couldnt take it to the next level.

These are not hard and fast rules. There are caveats and nuances. There are statements above that might not be true to you. Try to not pick it apart. Admittedly these are oversimplifications designed to make a point. That point is - there is a lot of pressure in being a " Man". and not being that 'guy' that wasn't dead on... all the time... with everything.

So the idea of being witnessed to having dropped my guard, exposing a weakness, having a woman or women laugh at the fact without sympathy, and me experience it without trying to 'cover it up' would be a release of the pressure valve of being a Man. I refuse to pay for this though. Not because I am cheap - but because paying for it make it not genuine. It would be simulated. If not for her, at least for me. Nor can I imagine actually living a life style of being routinely humiliated. I like being a Man. I like the people around me 'bending' at my control. But like an occasional backrub to release muscle tention, the occasional humilation to release this other pressure would be fantastic.

How the "first time" this would happen has been played out in my head a thousand times. I know exactly how to cross "the wall" (as I call it). That probably sounds selfish and I can admit it might be - but for something this personal I think I'm entitled. I won't bore the forum with details but I will thank the OP for posing the question.


(in reply to openmindedslave)
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RE: Humiliation - 11/8/2007 3:16:40 AM   
ExSteelAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: openmindedslave

I have a question for those who give out levels of humilation to those who apprecaite it??  Do you find that giving out forms of humilation really gives you great pleasure or do you do it becasue its importain to them more so than you??


As Velvettears said, it is a bonding experience. I enjoy humiliating her in the context of a scene or lighter play, yet she KNOWS I am not thinking less of her.

That is what Doms offer in many situations if you think about it. We do things to a submissive with understanding and don't think less of them. Vanilla guys will be prone to make judgments about the morals or trustworthiness of a woman who wants to be beaten and used. Doms get it because we are in the same boat as we want to use, beat and humiliate subs. 

< Message edited by ExSteelAgain -- 11/8/2007 3:18:10 AM >


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RE: Humiliation - 11/8/2007 8:52:12 AM   
chellekitty


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i haven't read all the replies in this thread...but there seems to be more focus on the difference between the need for humility and the act of bringing it about in this thread than normal...which is what i see humiliation play as....some s-types have a little harder finding humility so it takes more "extreme" acts...but anyway...

i was thinking about the fact that humility is a very attractive trait in all people, not just s-types, but in D-types as well...but it is not a submissives job to humiliate their Dominant....to bring about that humiltity in their Dominant.....i don't believe that a submissive should even be present when needed humility is brought about in any Dominant they know, much less their own...i think it creates an unhealthy power dynamic...now if you are a switch (between Dominant and submissive, not just Top and bottom or sadist and masochist) i can agree that it would not be so unhealthy, but perhaps confusing...
So...if you agree with my postulation, how do you think that this humility should be brought about?
if you don't agree with my postulation, would you like cake or death?

chelle...who can only serve so much cake, so hurry while you can...(sorry...Eddie Izzard is playing my head)


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RE: Humiliation - 11/8/2007 9:57:17 AM   
Tigrita


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Interesting post Chelle, it made me think, and respectfully disagree as to the last part.  I do think that humility is important, in both dominants and submissives, but I don't think a dominant should have to hide it from a submissive.  I think humility is very much a strength in its self and enhances my opinion of a dominant.  A dominant being able to recognize and apologize when they are wrong, feel when they are hurting, know when they need help and are not strong enough or don't have the skill set to acomplish something on their own... These are all types of humility, and to deny them is a mask, a front, a level of arrogance and huberous that is very un-attractive and even untrustworthy.  It is also a great challenge sometimes for a dominant personality, and strength shows in the greatest challenges.  I think it is also a way that a relationship with a submissive can help a dominant grow, not necessarily in an active way on the submissive's part, but as the relationship and trust grow, the dominant can grow this way within the trust of a submissive, to be able to show weakness and imperfection and maintain dominance.  That is a beautiful thing to me and I have seen it with both the dominants I've had relationships with and only think more of them for it, not less.

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Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

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(in reply to chellekitty)
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RE: Humiliation - 11/8/2007 9:57:22 AM   
Aswad


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Hey, chelle.

I'll have the cake, or something, depending on how you define "humility" in this context. Different dictionaries give definitions which superficially seem close in meaning, but which are actually widely divergent when examined in greater depth. Some kinds of humility I would consider beneficial and/or positive in a D-type, other kinds I would consider detrimental and/or negative. I'll leave the topic of how to bring it about alone; too many options, and rather individual.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Humiliation - 11/8/2007 12:39:23 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Hey, chelle.

I'll have the cake, or something, depending on how you define "humility" in this context. Different dictionaries give definitions which superficially seem close in meaning, but which are actually widely divergent when examined in greater depth. Some kinds of humility I would consider beneficial and/or positive in a D-type, other kinds I would consider detrimental and/or negative. I'll leave the topic of how to bring it about alone; too many options, and rather individual.

Health,
al-Aswad.



I agree that humility is important in both s-types and d-types.  Nor should a dominant have to hide it...too much of never letting his submissive see him as human and a dominant can begin to  come off as a know-it-all, non-feeling, non-caring robot who thinks he is omniscient. 

It is a tricky line...you have to believe you are good at what you do or you cannot succeed as a dominant when it comes to guiding someone and taking responsibilities onto your shoulders and engaging in sadomasochistic play and sex and yet...you have to know inside yourself that you are NOT perfect and that you do not know all there is to know about handling a whip, handling investments, dealing with emotional issues, all issues regarding D/s and BDSM, etc., etc., etc..  You have to believe that you are right for this submissive and yet be able to see when you are not being right for this submissive in this particular situation and KNOW that you are not the right dominant for every submissive out there.

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RE: Humiliation - 11/8/2007 1:58:59 PM   
Saaaam


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"Power is inflicting pain and humiliation." - O'Brien in 1984.

You need to do things that you don't want to do, otherwise what's the difference between whether someone has power over you or not?

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Humiliation - 11/8/2007 3:21:11 PM   
MsBearlee


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Joined: 2/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain
...
Humiliating a sub makes her feel insecure to the degree that she will find comfort in performing a humiliating act. She will want the relief of losing herself in the actual act. She does the act and I say, “good girl” and all is well.

Suppose I make her stand at attention and tell her how she is a slut, bitch, cunt and her only purpose in life is to serve. I tell her that she is helpless to be any other way and she knows it. I ask her if she knows it. She nods tearfully. I pull her hair, a pop or two on her naked skin with a crop as I speak until she is trembling.   
... 


This was the only example I caught regarding what humiliation MIGHT be.  I would like to remind people that one person’s humiliation is another person’s gentle tease.
 
I do not like statements that make sweeping generalizations like ‘humiliating a sub makes her feel…”  What ever makes a person feel anything…varies from person to person.
 
With regard to humiliation; I love it…but find I am not at all into name-calling, which to me borders on abuse.  Humiliation for some might simply be being to to ‘spread ‘em!’    <huge grins>  I find it sad that we did not first define humiliation before we began discussing our feelings regarding the practice.
 
I have said this before, but perhaps it bears repeating:  EVERYTHING is relative! 
 
MsB

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A must read for submissives! (click here)

This one, as well!

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Humiliation - 11/8/2007 3:55:49 PM   
possessedone


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Personally, I find humiliation to be a wonderful experience.  It takes me out of my world of being in control at work, being the friend that my friends call when they need help, being the child my aging mother relys on, and just lets me be.  It brings me to that place where I want to exist, as my Master's slave.  It reminds me of who I really am and what my Master wants me to become for him.  It gives me focus.  Does that mean that when I am at work and a customer gets angry and calls me "cunt" I won't get angry?  No, it doesn't.  It does mean that when my Master calls me "cunt", or "pig", or one of the many names he has for me, my heart will melt and I will know I am where I belong.

(in reply to MsBearlee)
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RE: Humiliation - 11/8/2007 7:44:35 PM   
astarri


Posts: 265
Joined: 4/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: openmindedslave

I have a question for those who give out levels of humilation to those who apprecaite it??  Do you find that giving out forms of humilation really gives you great pleasure or do you do it becasue its importain to them more so than you??


For myself, i know when someone is doing it cause i like it. It doesnt come from the soul. Part of what i enjoy about it is knowing that the other person is too. It becomes a situation where that energy is growing and growing and its powerful.
Having someone humiliate me cause i like it is like wanting a nice meal and going to mcdonalds ...there is just some stuff that has to be inside i think.

< Message edited by astarri -- 11/8/2007 7:45:09 PM >

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RE: Humiliation - 11/8/2007 7:57:01 PM   
Cntrolmeplease


Posts: 66
Joined: 10/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigrita

Taboo is often also a big appeal of it too in some circumstances.  Being that dirty, nasty, objectified little whatever... that your parents or mentors would be so shocked by and ashamed of.  Fun stuff.

Taboo is what does it for me too.. All the "i'm going to take pictures of all these nasty things you are letting me do to you and show them to your family.  Then they'll know what a dirty girl you really are" or "we are going to sit at a bar and I am going to make you lift your skirt to the top of your thighs and make you part those pretty little knees of yours.. Then your little pussy will be exposed.. Everyone is going to see your little pussy.." 
Whew.. sorry!

(in reply to Tigrita)
Profile   Post #: 60
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