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RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 9:40:23 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Yes. There's little that you can do except be supportive of their efforts to get help. As for play, yes, I've been in that situation, too, several times. We talked about my concerns before playing. Everything went well and we're still in contact.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to shootingstar67)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 9:50:10 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		dang, you got a longer list than i do....i just usually say i'm crazy and i hurt all the time i have seizures and i am diabetic...and that covers it well enough

as someone with bipolar, ptsd, OCD, dissassociative identiy dissorder, recovering anorexic, recovering addict (you don't find many depressed female addicts who don't have a history of an eating dissorder actually)...on the physical side....diabetes, complex partial seizures, complicated migraines, central sleep apnea (no, its not because i'm fat and it will never go away), i guess i should throw in morbid obesity at this point....i am around 300lbs even though i can slide a size 24 pants off my hips (between sizes again, can't quite button a 22....its weird...i loose weight and loose weight and never loose a size...and then i sit at the same weight for months and loose sizes...what the heck?) and various joint problems, undiagnosed....an ankle thats been dislocating for 13 years (did it two nights ago, i looked down and went "when did i get a second ankle joint?") and undiagnosed pain issues...i never thought it was unusual until about 4 months ago....still not convinced they can do anything about it...

and with all that....it scares a lot of people off....some think they can handle it at first....and then they meet me, and its all fine and dandy until i have a seizure or i have a mood swing or whatever...and its too much for them....but some day....maybe sooner rather than later...i will find someone that can handle all that...and just go with the flow...and maybe all my life experience thus far and all their life experience thus far has been preparing us for eachother...because i do not believe in coincidence....

chelle


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:25:54 AM   
ItzKat


Posts: 86
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I know you have posted this several times but I totally disagree that depession is in any way, part of natural submission.


I agree... I feel that I am a natural submissive/masochist but I have never been depressed.  However, I do feel that some people have a higher tendency towards depression.  Also I feel that what ever we are is really only a part of the total of us. 

_____________________________

~Kat

That which does not kill us... can really mess up our hair!

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:31:54 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

I know you have posted this several times but I totally disagree that depession is in any way, part of natural submission.


If you mean that 'natural submission' is somehow free of the influence of brain chemistry, I would have to totally disagree with you.

On something so deeply personal, each person can probably only best relate to their own experiences, and not really know what those labels mean to another.


(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:39:09 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

I know you have posted this several times but I totally disagree that depession is in any way, part of natural submission.


If you mean that 'natural submission' is somehow free of the influence of brain chemistry, I would have to totally disagree with you.

On something so deeply personal, each person can probably only best relate to their own experiences, and not really know what those labels mean to another.


I was referring to depression in the clinical sense of the word. While there may indeed be (and there are plenty of examples) submissives who are diagnosed with clinical depression...it is not a part of the make-up of natural submission.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:39:27 AM   
Vanatru


Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline 		Some illnesses might be better not to be involved in this lifestyle as it could trigger their problem or feed it. But mainly, I'd expect them to be honest they have their illness upfront. After all, an amputee is an obvious physical challenge, a number of mental problems are not overtly obvious, or only more obvious over time and exposure.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:46:32 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

I know you have posted this several times but I totally disagree that depession is in any way, part of natural submission.


If you mean that 'natural submission' is somehow free of the influence of brain chemistry, I would have to totally disagree with you.

On something so deeply personal, each person can probably only best relate to their own experiences, and not really know what those labels mean to another.


I was referring to depression in the clinical sense of the word. While there may indeed be (and there are plenty of examples) submissives who are diagnosed with clinical depression...it is not a part of the make-up of natural submission.


I guess I'm having trouble deciphering the precise maner in which you are using 'natural'.
How could we possibly know what is natural submission for another person? 
I can see where the effects of clinical depression for some could easily include feelings of wanting someone else to be dominant. (And one of the standard symptoms of bi-polar is engaging in 'risky behavior' in a variety of ways).
If those feelings are as genuine as any others produced by chemicals and synapses interacting, what would make submission fueled by them 'not-natural'?

(Apologies if you've explained this before, it is truly a new concept to me, or an old one couched in terms I don't recognize).


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:57:21 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
I guess I'm having trouble deciphering the precise maner in which you are using 'natural'.
How could we possibly know what is natural submission for another person? 
I can see where the effects of clinical depression for some could easily include feelings of wanting someone else to be dominant. (And one of the standard symptoms of bi-polar is engaging in 'risky behavior' in a variety of ways).
If those feelings are as genuine as any others produced by chemicals and synapses interacting, what would make submission fueled by them 'not-natural'?

(Apologies if you've explained this before, it is truly a new concept to me, or an old one couched in terms I don't recognize).


In order to have flame you must have oxygen. Submission and depression are not dependent upon each other. While the two can indeed be present, it is not necessary for them to be. The required roots of submission do not need to be depression and often quite the opposite is true.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 3:27:07 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shootingstar67

Have you ever run across a submissive who was obviously depressed or self destructive with low self regard? If so what did you do?

Have you ever been tempted to play with someone willing and attractive but obviously not very strong mentally or emotionally?


I'd be afraid to play with someone who had been diagnosed with a severe mental illness. Such a person may be viewed as unable to consent which could lead to serious legal problems. 

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to shootingstar67)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 8:55:07 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I run across people that act as if they are mentally ill all the time.
I try to avoid them if at all possible, usually they are not willing to listen nor heed advice.
 
No, why on earth would I?
Especially, if their mental illness is not being treated?

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to shootingstar67)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 9:08:02 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I hate to tell you this people, but most americans have some form of "mental illness" under the DSM.  A huge number of americans are estimated to suffer from untreated depression and according to a national  article (newsweek or one of the major news mags, reported a few studies, sorry I don't remember which) I read a few years ago, over 50% of the female population has been on some type of anti-depressant or mood stablizer for depression in the last decade.  Many mental illnesses are easily treatable and monitored. 

Good luck actually finding someone that's truly honest that doesn't have some form of mental illness or history of it.  I would suggest to you that those of you that would reject someone for merely having a "mental illness" aren't being all that honest with yourselves or don't understand how encompassing the term actually is.

In response to the OP's actual question, which isn't this ongoing conversation carried on here, if someone was truly self-destructive, I would have to look at why they were into d/s and/or bdsm.  If one truly desires to be treated badly ie: it really does feel bad for them to participate, I wouldn't want to be part of it personally.  However, to each their own.  I sure wouldn't discard a human being for depression unless it was severe enough they were a danger to themselves and didn't seek help.


_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 9:56:39 PM   
tdslittlehelper


Posts: 79
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline 		I myself have not been diagnosised with any mental illness but i am in therapy and I do have TONS of issues.. all of the "classics"  lol.  My Sir and his slave are very aware of this and knew full well what they entailed as we spent time in real life getting to know each other as men and women before we moved to Dominate and submissive.  I think that everyone has something about them that needs to be learned before you "take them on" there were situations and things in their lives taht I had to learn and understand before I was collared.  It is all about getting to know the person and seeing what you can handle and what you can deal with. 

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:24:46 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		No one is perfect, and I never said I was seeking perfection.
Wow, who pissed on your wheaties?
AGAIN, I am not going to become involved with someone who is clearly mentally ill,
and is not willing to listen, heed advice, or get treated.
 
Also, there is a big difference between mental disorders and "serious" mental illness.
This is from the National Alliance on Mental Illness...
  • Mental disorders fall along a continuum of severity. Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion — about 6 percent, or 1 in 17 Americans — who suffer from a serious mental illness. It is estimated that mental illness affects 1 in 5 families in America.

    6% is hardly most of the population


    < Message edited by MzMia -- 11/9/2007 10:30:31 PM >

    _____________________________

    Namaste'
    To Each His/Her Own
    "DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


    What's your favorite fetish?
    "My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

    (in reply to laurell3)
    • Profile   Post #: 33
    RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:27:03 PM   
    laurell3


    Posts: 6577
    Joined: 5/5/2005
    Status: offline     		Mia, I wasn't commenting to you personally. 

    The OP actually didn't ask about mental health per se.  I was merely pointing out that definition under the DSM is really very inclusive of many behaviors.

    Trust me, if someone had "pissed in my wheaties" it would be evident.

    _____________________________

    I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

    When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

    (in reply to MzMia)
    Profile   Post #: 34
    RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:27:51 PM   
    MzMia


    Posts: 5333
    Joined: 7/30/2004
    Status: offline     		I am sorry, but I still say there is a big difference between "issues", "mental disorders" and
    being mentally ill.

    Usually when I think of someone being mentally ill, they are near being certifiable.
     
    Sorry, will edit a bit, most of us tend to think that the post under our's is directed at us, especially when we see our name, under reply.
     

    < Message edited by MzMia -- 11/9/2007 10:32:17 PM >

    _____________________________

    Namaste'
    To Each His/Her Own
    "DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


    What's your favorite fetish?
    "My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

    (in reply to laurell3)
    Profile   Post #: 35
    RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:29:28 PM   
    laurell3


    Posts: 6577
    Joined: 5/5/2005
    Status: offline     		lol nope, sorry, I was just lazy and didn't go to the OP's post to reply.

    _____________________________

    I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

    When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

    (in reply to MzMia)
    Profile   Post #: 36
    RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:36:24 PM   
    MissSCD


    Posts: 1185
    Joined: 3/10/2007
    Status: offline     		Mental Illness and low self esteme are not the same thing.  If a submissive has low self esteme issues, then positive reinforcement works well.  Verbal humiliation would not be a wise choice at that particular time.  Reward and punishment is what I would use.
    Now, if it is Mental Illness, that is an entire different ballgame.  Part of being able to cope with Mental Illness is knowing what you have and being under medical care.  Scening is fine with Mental Illness; however, treatment is a necessisty.  No doctor.  No scenes. 
    Wish you all the best.

    Regards, MissSCD

    (in reply to hisannabelle)
    Profile   Post #: 37
    RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:41:56 PM   
    MzMia


    Posts: 5333
    Joined: 7/30/2004
    Status: offline     		There are a lot of wonderful posts here.
    I think most of us can agree, that we ALL have some sort of mental "disorders", or maybe
    even mental "illness".
     
    The issue normally is, what is the degree of the mental illness and what is the effect on the person's life?
    Can the person function normally?  Is the person even aware they have mental illness?
    Are they being treated?   Are they neurotic like most people or are they psychotic and one step away
    from being on the evening news?

    Can you tell this is my passion?

    _____________________________

    Namaste'
    To Each His/Her Own
    "DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


    What's your favorite fetish?
    "My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

    (in reply to MissSCD)
    Profile   Post #: 38
    RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 10:55:22 PM   
    laurell3


    Posts: 6577
    Joined: 5/5/2005
    Status: offline     		This time I am replying to you and I agree completely. 

    On a sidenote, I can recall being at a meeting where a psychiatrist using the DSM added to the list of diagnosis for a patient caffeine addiction as part of his basis and support for the recommendation for commitment (no it wasn't me) and that wasn't the only reason, the person had some very violent behaviors, which made it odd he threw that in.  I'm not sure if it's still in there, but that's got to be like what...90 percent of america?

    < Message edited by laurell3 -- 11/9/2007 10:57:17 PM >

    _____________________________

    I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

    When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

    (in reply to MzMia)
    Profile   Post #: 39
    RE: Mentally Ill submissive - 11/9/2007 11:03:41 PM   
    MzMia


    Posts: 5333
    Joined: 7/30/2004
    Status: offline     		Well laurell, you have psychiatrists that need pyschiatrists!
    Being a pyschiatrist, does not mean you might not have serious mental issues also.
    Many people forget that.
    Ted Bundy {the world's most famous serial killer} had a degree in psychology and was accepted into law school.
    lol 

    < Message edited by MzMia -- 11/9/2007 11:09:48 PM >

    _____________________________

    Namaste'
    To Each His/Her Own
    "DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


    What's your favorite fetish?
    "My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

    (in reply to laurell3)
    Profile   Post #: 40
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