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Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the gay co... - 11/11/2007 2:03:04 PM   
cyberchicdoll


Posts: 21
Joined: 10/18/2007
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My Master and i live our life style lives just sharing our preferences with the selection of people who we trust and who know what the lifestyle is about.  This is our choice our preference.  We dont wish to be known as those wierdos or get the label of Master being a wife basher(even though we just live together).  It puts me in mind of the reactions a gay couple got when i was a kid when they came out. Should the lifestyle be coming out more than it is, the campaigns in the U.S.A are awesome.  Here in the U.K. the whole lifestyle is still very much underground.  The press and telivision still view it as sleeze and something of  a joke.  When  national politician was found dead in his hotel room bound and  with a plastic bag on his head the tabloids had a field day. Lifestylers will recognise this as a breath play gone wrong but the British public was horrified and derisive.  This incident and the Miss Whiplash Domme image has damaged the chances of  any lifestylers chances of getting a fair hearing.  Should we in this community of the world be brave and brass front it as individuals or gather in groups.  Lately this has been playing on my mind.  I made the decision to leave my comfortable life behind in pursuit of my hearts desire.  I walked out on everything i had ever known as i knew in my heart i wanted to serve as a r/t submissive.  My x partner didnt and will never understand my drive to be flogged till my back is a mass of stripes and that i wear them with pride and love. There is i believe for everyone in the lifestyle one person in every life we really want to know this side of our hearts.  One peron above any we want to tell "im Dom/sub".  I know i have.  I have never told that one person because im not sure i could handle the rejection if it came, i hope it wouldnt but im just not that brave.  I am posting here as i want to know how everyone here feels and their genuine opinion. I am not saying get on with campaigns just think about coming out to those you care about , it may suprise you how u feel it certianly did me. Maybe one day i will not care about others reactions and feel brave enough to stand behind my lifestyle choices but for now i dont. 
cyberchicdoll 


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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 2:12:23 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


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only a select few at the radio station where i work know about my "alternative" lifestyle however i keep it private from family and friends due to their religious faith.  i don't mind wearing Daddy's "jewelry" (collar to Story of O ring ...ankle chains too) in public.

on the flipside, Daddy has to keep this side of His life private because of His practice and standing in the community.

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 2:32:09 PM   
CuriousLord


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I was out of the closet for a good while.  Now my ex-roommates still spread rumors that I'm a scientologist (one of those people who believes morbid alien ghosts haunt the bodies of the living.. all because I said "I believe in Science" when they asked me about religion) and a pedophile (the sub was TWENTY FIVE!  Five years older than me!  She showed them her driver's liscense!).  They even threatened to call the police and report me for slavery (although, never did.  I mean, what, are they going to tell them that the no-good man is forcing a 25-year old adolscent to be depressed due to dead, alien ghosts?).
[/rant]

My new roommates think I'm vanilla.  And I think it's going to stay this way.  I had no idea how much drama people could get into over this stuff.  Particularly guys, who.. I mean, do you normally think of guys as rumor mills and to be uptight about this sort of thing?

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 2:34:48 PM   
SteelofUtah


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Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
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I used to think that everyone should be open about who they were because I was. Today I have a little more to loose like a Child!

Today I have a larger problem with those who use the lifestyle as a way to cheat on thier Spouses. I know it happens a lot and that a lot of people ask who I am to what is right or wrong. Point blank if you have to do something behind someones back then it's wrong and that's my OPINION. If your spouse knows and don't care then I also don't think there is anything wrong with that.

I see the whole being in the closet thing as a little more cut and dry. I am always me, I do not act differently in public then I do in private save for physical things that I just don't do in public because that is not the place to do such things.

I have had many people think I am Obtuse or Boisterious and some who stated I am a control freak, but few ever ask if I am in BDSM and the ones that do have also been in the lifestyle. I say be yourself but that does not require you to go over to your neighbors in full leather bondage gear and asking if the mind if you tie your girl to the dinner table so that we can all eat off of her.

I don't see it as in the closet as much as it's a way of living that doesn't really require a "Look at me" Mentality.

As Always

Steel

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 2:36:22 PM   
dcnovice


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I'm out to way more people about being gay than about being kinky.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 2:43:39 PM   
SunNMoon


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fr

I don’t consider my self in the closet. I’m also just a private person and I don’t have a reason going up to everyone telling them the intimate details of my relationship with someone.  I have a friend who is gay, and his response to be in the closet or out is what’s the point we are who we are, it doesn’t really matter who we’re in a relationship with. I take that advice to my own relationships.

Now my close friends know about this side of my relationships for awhile. My parents don’t know, they’ll meet whoever I’m with mind you. But I don’t see a reason for them to know what goes on in my bedroom as long as I’m happy.

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 2:53:17 PM   
azropedntied


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From: Phx AZ
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Some people have to not be as out as they wish due to many factors like being judged ,religion,family and friends ,work place ,etc.Gay has become  alot more acceptable VS our personal bdsm .The closet is safe  but is it true to who you are ?Often i have been asked by the nilla people i come into contact for one reason or another ,I always ask are you sure you want me to answer that question ?Even the simple act of wearing  your leathers for example .Do you ride a harley ?NO .. then why do you wear  leather ?Where do you work? or as most people ask "what do you do "?always hated that line  like  your job or work or biz  totally defined you .I respond i have a small bussines ,oooh what is it what type ? I say then are you sure you wish to know its not mainstream ..
Some say yes out of curiousity  and after i say Fetish type biz  its oooh kewl what do you sell or a sour lemon face .
I personaly do not hide  my BDSM nor do i have a pride leather flagged car .If people wish to learn more i tell them , but i do not shove it down  throats .Its sad to me that people have to hide and not be who they are for fear of reprisals and judgements ,harm ,job loss , and discriminations .The National Free Speach Coalition does amazing work  and i support the efforts they put forth .

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 2:53:25 PM   
SoulPiercer


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There probably are more "lifestylers" in the closet than there are (proportionately) in the gay community.

While it may not be popular among "civilized" society to be gay .. it's rare to find communities where it is actually illegal and the law is enforced.

However, a great many activities that we in the BDSM community participate in are illegal in many parts of the worlds and in many cases if caught, the laws are enforced.


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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 3:29:18 PM   
cyberchicdoll


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Joined: 10/18/2007
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I wasnt saying we should push the lifestyle, more asking how everyone would like the lifestyle to be more  open. More a case of you can talk about being gay to most but not the lifestyle. I was more asking about the matter in a larger picture though all the above replies are valid.
We live here in the UK with a mob rules mentality.  Its like the invasion of the body snatchers.  If one screams "they" all scream.  Its not the youth that make the opinions here, the youth embraces different.   Its those in charge of things, who are usually in the 55 plus age group and who never go out after dark and drive well insured volvos and have never visited a sex shop(this is said tongue in cheek but i think we all know the types). 
I know if i wanted to start a fetish club in my town(and i do) id be hounded out by the mob. It is sad and frustrating and all i can do is talk to those that want to listen and be ignored and ignore those who dont. There are so many wonderful old buildings here that cry out for a fun lifestyles use.  But how can you offer that to a totally intolerant local council. In contrast they had to accept the gay bar application for a licence by state law, when just 30 years ago being gay was punishable with a prison sentance.
It really makes me wonder.
cyberchicdoll submissive to MasterJohnUK

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 3:40:21 PM   
CelticPrince


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chichdoll,

you share a problem with most in the life. Gay is more accepted then our path but so what.

CP

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 3:44:56 PM   
scottjk


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To put an objective spin on things, we live in a society where we teach that violence of any kind, regardless of it's application is wrong. Even the use of violence to stop violence. I find it laughable, really. It's the ultimate in hypocrisy, considering that the simple act of voting has an implicit threat of violence behind it. :)

In our lifestyle, violence permeates everything we do. We all know that. To the world outside our private circles, we're perceived as a threat to thier skewed view of violence, as well as our implicit view that relationships are not between equals in the conventional sense. (I feel it would be more accurate to say it's between complimentary individuals, like ying and yang.) Our society struggles for safety and security every day against violence and inequality, teach it to our children as dogma and implement it as law in our governments. However, as society does this, they remove certain rights to choose how we want to live. We threaten that because we contradict that view of non-violence and equality we're teaching our children and trying to express in our legislation.

Personally, I think there are some major differences between being gay and being a bdsm lifestyler. (Please, no quibbling about definitions and labels.)

1. Anti-gay topics were not really part of the school curriculum, whereas anti-violence and equality is.

2. While there isn't any anti-gay legislation, there is some ancient legislation against sodomy, and it's hard to enforce. However there are LOTS of anti-violence legislation, and it is often swiftly employed, often recklessly. Just intimidating some one is cause for arrest.

3. Outwardly, same sex couples not in the lifestyle display a gentle and loving nature to each other in non threatening ways. That's good PR. It's hard to perceive any kind of harm. Inside the lifestyle, it's quite the opposite. One partner subjugating another. The PR value is not very good, the outward message (even with the best of intentions) is the naked exercise and enjoyment of power.

4. Psychology these days has pretty much dropped the concept of gay as an aberration since society has accepted it as a kind of norm overall, but it hasn't for our lifestyle. The Stockholm Syndrome or it's concepts are bandied about quite a bit. (Bad guy is still a bad guy and the hostage's experience has deranged her so her statements can't be considered the trustworthy.)

5. Gay lifestyles don't have any blatant sexual overtones, no different from hetero lifestyles. We know they're fucking, it's simply implied. BDSM lifestyles tend to have blatant sexual overtones. Everyone knows they're fucking, however, the imagination runs wild in regards to HOW they fuck and WHERE they fuck and WHEN they fuck and..... well, I've made my point. :) To say the least, the overtones are a blending of violence and eroticism and it's heady stuff.

6. While the gay community can make a genetic case for their choice, that's not so true for our lifestyle. Where the gay community can claim a lack of any real choice, it's not so easy for us. Society creates laws to control rampant violence and enforce equal rights. We can choose to obey or not, and our lifestyle clearly demonstrates that we've made our choice to the contrary, in-spite of it's limited scope. The fact that we chose to be contrary at all makes people nervous. As a society, we tend to see law as an all-or-nothing contract. Blurring the edges, as we all know, creates an environment of abuse that is difficult to prevent.

Should we come 'out of the closet'? Right now? I don't think so. How we want to live shouldn't be made into a political battle ground. As Dom/mes, we love our subs dearly, and it's in our nature to protect and care for them, not subject them to the loss and pain that a political battle will surely cause. I'm certain our subs feel the same way about their Dom/mes. Gay rights had to happen because the issue of equality for them as individuals and as couples, in terms of marriage, finances, insurance, keeping jobs, bereavement and so on. There was something worth fighting for and winning for the gay community. It was worth the risk of a few zealots, and perhaps a few deaths to get the recognition that they honestly had a right to.

What would the BDSM community be fighting for? What issues are there that the civil rights movement and the gay rights movement hasn't accomplished for us already? Is there an issue that the BDSM community has that would be worth dying for, that others haven't already died for? What about consequences of our community's actions? For example, the domestic violence laws we have in place. Should they be re-written to account for our lifestyle? How about kidnapping, rape, and a slew of others meant to protect our vulnerable populations? Should they be re-written to accommodate our lifestyle at the expense of others? Personally, I'm not willing. There is way too much that could go wrong, and not a whole lot to gain.

I say things are fine in the closet. ;) As long as we don't push our lifestyle in the face of those that don't approve, things are pretty good. We can quietly grow and include others. The strategy of using Sex Positive Community Centers will work rather neatly, and those interested in learning about our lifestyle will learn in a safe and supportive environment that we, as lifestylers, have provided without pushing it in other's faces. I'd rather have our community accepted because we're simply there and no big deal, rather than the community that has chosen litigation and a semi-threatening posture to gain recognition if not acceptance. As long as we offer free education, a safe place to play, and support each other, newcomers and elders, not to mention 'police' up our bad apples, we are in pretty good shape, and will be in pretty good shape in the future.



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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 4:07:47 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberchicdoll

Here in the U.K. the whole lifestyle is still very much underground.  The press and telivision still view it as sleeze and something of  a joke.  When  national politician was found dead in his hotel room bound and  with a plastic bag on his head the tabloids had a field day. Lifestylers will recognise this as a breath play gone wrong but the British public was horrified and derisive. 

Hi and great to see a poster from the UK....
you know a friend who is a journalist...no I won't out him....actually rang me and told me the night before  about the politician with the orange in his mouth and the black bag over his head and self pulled tournique around his neck....the poor b'stad lay there longer than we all thought because they so tidied up the details ....even the press were gagged...anyway....that's how we do kink here in the Uk...I have said it so many times and I will say it again....we associate eroticism/arousal with repression.....as for whether there are more queers or kinksters in the closet? well that depends on which closet you have recently come out of....
there are some of both in both and you know what? There are more closets than there are stairs to hide them under here in the UK......dungeons hidden in garages, dirty old men in raincoats out walking the dog....oh yer we know, pedos hanging around the school gates and famous rock stars out for a crusin and a bruisin, MP's hiding in the bshes on Hampstead Heath, priests mincing their way through pulpits and ritualistic killings south of the Thames in voo doo land...not  to mention major sex trafficking of starving eastern Europen girls beholden for life to a sex slave trade......those are just some of the closets....if you open others you might find a date rape victim or two falling right out in front of you but they won't remember a thing and if you hear screams from behind the hanging baskets .......never mind turn a blind eye it's only a domestic......skeptical?
I'd scream it from the roof tops that I am a masochistic queer of a switch bitch therapist but it's more than my job is worth.......:)


< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 11/11/2007 4:11:03 PM >

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 4:32:39 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
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From: Charleston, WV
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I'm out on a national level for those that look. My mother's side of the family knows as does my brother. If I had close friends outside the community, they'd know (but it seems that whenever I meet and get close to someone from outside the community...guess what? Turns out they're kinky, too!). If someone yelled, "Master Fire!" across the supermarket, I'd respond automatically. But, I don't shove it in people's faces nor do I shout it from the mountain tops, so to speak.

Master Fire


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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 5:08:12 PM   
azropedntied


Posts: 1829
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From: Phx AZ
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Master Fire > sometime when you have some time i would love to discuss the  yelling names  out in public in depth with you .I have a tough time  with that one ,can expand more when i see you if thats ok . 

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 5:25:09 PM   
liminalRapture


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I believe the right-wing in the US may be looking to replace trashing gays and lesbians with trashing kinky folk because gays and lesbians are (rightful) losing their value as wedge political issues.  Gays and lesbians are defined by who they love, whereas kinky folk are defined by what they do.  It has far more ability to shock now, and I think the Gonzales was really setting the ground work to set kinky folk up as the next "ooh they're horrible" group. 

If I were a lesbian, I would totally be out in my job and I really believe it would have no impact on my employment prospects.  If people at my job knew about what it is I do, I expect it would make my job much more difficult.

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 5:26:18 PM   
treehugger42


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Life's funny. Everyone I know in my adult life - i.e., my friends, colleagues, and school acquaintances, not my parents and their families - knows I'm bi, and most of them know I'm "kinky", although not what the specifics of that word mean. The more I come out, the better I feel; even though it was petrifying at first, but I've actually gotten very little judgement. But then again, I just like to talk about sex a lot. I certainly don't feel it's necessary for *everyone* to come out of the BDSM closet, goodness... my current partner is a lot more wary about it than I am because he doesn't want to be seen as, quote "a mean guy who hits a girl 'even though she liked it'". Which is understandable, so I'm trying to be more private... it's hard for me though because I'm just naturally the kind of person who puts everything on the table. My roommate's Christian friends come over and I pull out the flogger and start demo'ing how it's done. I find people tend to be fascinated more than judgemental, and I wish it was more acceptable to say to people "hey, have you ever considered that you might be a sadist?" or the like. Oh well, enough rambling.

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 5:39:29 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: treehugger42

I certainly don't feel it's necessary for *everyone* to come out of the BDSM closet.....

ever really tried cleaning out a closet.....?
it's far too dark to see what the hell is in there really...


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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 6:20:24 PM   
MzMia


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Wonderful post scottjk.
 
I have never had the need to flaunt what I do in front of the vanilla world.
I wonder if those that feel they need to be "out", want public validation?

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To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


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"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 6:42:30 PM   
Celeste43


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From: NYS
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You know, I never enjoyed my gay friends waxing lyrical about the ass fucking they got earlier that week. We talked about work, health, mutual friends, food, movies etc.

I'm really not interested in my nilla friends' sex lives either. They don't go into detail of who got to pick the new dishes, and who got outvoted. We talk about things in common; lawns, ums, snow plowing, who is doing well, who isn't, who has an elderly parent doing well or badly.

And I'm not interested in droning on about the hogtie he put me in, or why we went out for TCBY instead of the full fat ice cream. All my friends know of my relationship is what they see, that we're happy. The ones who talk about their relationships are the ones who are unhappy.

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RE: Are lifestyle people more in the closet than the ga... - 11/11/2007 6:50:00 PM   
Faramir


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scott and liminal had good posts: we are wayyyy nore in the closet than GLBT's.  They have legal protection for their orientation, and in most cases we have legal adversity, and the level of social opprobrium is way lower for them.  Most of my friends know how I am, but what makes that work is that they are my friends--they love me and have itimate knowledge of my character, and so have made a leap and decided that if I do it, it must be doable in a way that is not grossly wicked or unjust.  But they had to get over a real psychological hurdle, enabled only by intimacy with me.  Generally people don't have that.

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True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

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