RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes....

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Sinergy -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/21/2007 5:42:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Zensee, a decade ago? They're still killing each other in Northern Ireland! They killed a Police Officer two weeks ago there. How do you explain all the people killing people in other parts of the world? I could hold up the police blotter showing violence in almost every major and minor city in the United States (for example), is this sort of thing only religious hatred if it happens in Ireland or sectarian violence if it happens in Iraq? A decade or more ago in Northern Ireland there was a landed ruling party of Protestants attempting to inflict order on a largely agrarian Catholic population. It was easy for people to say that it was Catholic vs. Protestant hatred, and made good news copy to give to the ignorant. When the US and a lot of Europe outsourced a lot of cottage type industries in the form of computer programming and the like, the monetary incentive to justify violence was removed and the IRA became a historical footnote. While there may be violence where perpetrator A belongs to team X and perpetrator B belongs to team Y, I would love to see source material that proves an ongoing conflict between team X and team Y in Ireland. Sinergy

popeye1250 -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/21/2007 5:50:33 PM)
Sinergy, there's a site called "Irishabroad.com" Go into the "politics" threads.

cyberdude611 -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/21/2007 7:03:12 PM)
I think we are dealing with some very complex ethical problems... Obviously everyone is outraged when we hear about a story like this. But really what right do we have to demand they change their domestic policies? After all this isn't new. This type of thing has been going on in Saudi Arabia and other parts of the mid-east for hundreds of years. Like it or not the people in that society needs to change on their own. You cant force them to change. Unfortunately there is not going to be a feminist movement in that culture for awhile. A number of things have to happen before that's even possible.

popeye1250 -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/21/2007 7:20:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lashra quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: Divina This is clearly a hijack: When women start questioning their traditional gender roles to the extent that they may even relinquish them, actively fighting for equal status until they GET it, especially in the Middle East or third World Countries, there will be a readjustment of power dynamic that will dramatically change the world, socially -as expected- but most importantly, financially and politically. This is the next revolution, of the league of great revolutions like Industrial Revolution or the Information Revolution, waiting to take place. Its not like here in the west where women can, thankfully, speak out. How would you suggest they argue against the regimes without being imprisoned or worse, killed ? If only every woman there had a gun/ammo and knew how to use it, then things might change. But then again if they had guns and knew how to use them, the situation there might be quite different then it is now. I do hope these women get sick and tired of being treated worse than animals and band together against these tyrannical crazed bastards. Enough is enough women are NOT animals we are human beings deserving the same equal rights and treatment as men I don't care what anyone says. ~Lashra Lashra is right. Start taking up collections to arm muslim women.

domiguy -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/21/2007 7:59:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bryhtwulf Well there you go, so if the russia took over new jersey and gave it to the krishnas and then armed them with nukes thats all fine and ok... Sorry, but, yeah. We should have won the war. Russia just must have wanted it more. I see it in black and white. the arabs have no real right to complain. They could have crushed the Jews in 1948, but couldn't. So either Jews are the greatest warriors ever, or Arabs are just terrible soldiers. There is an incredible resource available to learn about these things before you spew whatever you have heard and expect people tp recieve it as fact.....The jews were far from out gunned, which included superior weaponry and training....God Bless the US of A!!!

Sinergy -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/21/2007 8:06:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: satyrne07 quote: p.s. in the Third Chimpanzee, Jared Diamond points out that it is a common simian behavior to form into groups and then assault, prey, etc., on the members of other groups. I would imagine that one of the reasons for the growth of creationist theory is to allow people to pretend that humans do not continually act like a bunch of aggressive monkeys. ORIGINAL: Sinergy This point above could be distilled to say that among primates, including humans there is a behavior designed to generate brutal US AGAINST THEM conflicts. The history of religions and religious ideas could be read very reasonably as a history of creating ideologies that allow groups formerly opposed to one another to join together against a new common enemy. It is for this reason that any claims that religion makes people act more justly and morally can't refer to how members treat each other. Look to how a religion treats or weeps for injury to those it considers damned and you see its moral compass. I thought that was my point. Sinergy

MissSCD -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/21/2007 8:23:52 PM)
There is a book that everyone should read about Saudi Arabia that plans to go there. The name of the book is "The Princess". It is written from an American view point given to the author about a Saudi Abrian Princess who reveals things that we cannot comprehend. I was in love with an American man who worked in Saudi Arabai before I married. The man explained to me I was too strong minded to go there. After I read that book, I could see he was correct. Now, the punishment for this is not because of the rape itself. The punishment was handed down because she was a married woman off with another man who happened to be captured and raped. Then she went to to the Press. According to this book, this country drowns there daughters in swiming pools if they do not adhere to the Koran. That was the reason behind the sentence I believe. They could care less about the rape. Regards, MissSCD

Sinergy -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/21/2007 9:17:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Sinergy, there's a site called "Irishabroad.com" Go into the "politics" threads. What exactly am I looking for? Sinergy

Master96 -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 2:55:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 GTMO, isn't a part of the U.S. but it's very nice there. Great weather, nice sandy beaches, horseback riding, swimming pools, restaurants a good PX., outdoor movies. OMG!!! Are you serious? Guantanamo Bay detention camp Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 7:38:14 AM)
Do I support something like this? If the people of that country want it, then let it be. If the people of that country do not want it, then the people of that country will do something about it. Instead of being distracted by something half the world away, that the US is not directly involved in, we should be pissed about how the corporations have hijacked our government, through buying the politicians. There is no way we can effectively help anyone else, until we get the shit straightened out here at home. Orion

Lordandmaster -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 8:17:05 AM)
Agreed, Orion, but I think it's clear that the Saudi people have grave doubts that this is really the society they want. Or, maybe more precisely, there are segments of the Saudi population that don't want a government that will punish rape victims. But they're not going to bring about change very easily. Also, Saudi Arabia is one of our greatest allies in the Middle East. I think people are pointing to this case, and the American response to it, as an example of American hypocrisy, not as another foreign problem that we need to solve.

farglebargle -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 8:36:46 AM)
"Saudi Arabia is one of our greatest allies in the Middle East. " Oh, THAT'S debatable.

thompsonx -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 12:52:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 I think we are dealing with some very complex ethical problems... Obviously everyone is outraged when we hear about a story like this. But really what right do we have to demand they change their domestic policies? After all this isn't new. This type of thing has been going on in Saudi Arabia and other parts of the mid-east for hundreds of years. Like it or not the people in that society needs to change on their own. You cant force them to change. Unfortunately there is not going to be a feminist movement in that culture for awhile. A number of things have to happen before that's even possible. cyberdude: Why is it OK for the U.S. to demand a change in the way the government of Afghanistan and Iraq operate but not Saudi Arabia? Nothing complex about it. We went there to fuck their women and take their dope. Who is next on the list...Venezuela, Iran, Cuba??? thompson

xBullx -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 1:17:08 PM)
Greetings Dude, By the way, I love the new Dude Budwieser commercial. ----This is actually a general response, and not directed to anyone in particular.---- I haven't read anyone elses response to this yet, though I did read your article. I don't see what the noise is all about. I could see some folks wanting to protest Saudi laws and such, but in this instance it looks to me that justice was served. The rapeists were punished for their offense, And the female was punished for hers. It had nothing to do with the act of the rape, it was a seperate offense which she was being punished for and as I read it, the increase had to do once again with her inability to follow the rules of the word in which she lives. Saudi Arabia is a soveriegn nation as are the countries in which most of the rest of us live. Did it ever occur to the catalysts of this exterior noise that perhaps the way others live seem just as wrong to the Saudi's as well. I may or may not agree with Saudi ways, but I am not at liberty to force my will upon them. I believe that if this is important to outsiders, sound diplomacy should be considered. Or maybe we should send in troops.[;)] Come on folks, are we supposed to be our brothers keeper or not, make up our fuckin' minds. This seems like a crusade in its own right. If you don't like their laws, do the carpet bagger thing and move to the gulf. Do live well, Bull

xBullx -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 1:48:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx cyberdude: Why is it OK for the U.S. to demand a change in the way the government of Afghanistan and Iraq operate but not Saudi Arabia? Nothing complex about it. We went there to fuck their women and take their dope. Who is next on the list...Venezuela, Iran, Cuba??? thompson Hell if it's just that we're there to fuck their women, I'm good with Venezuela or Cuba....uhhhhhhhhhhhhlala....cha cha cha......... Bull

xBullx -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 2:07:59 PM)
Greetings, I rather think our hypocracy is more obvious within our own borders, not our view at the world stage. I agree we are perhaps the tops in hypocracy as a whole, but it is those that scream the loudest and do the least that really get me. This topic is simply an issue of Saudi Arabia and I do believe that some are more active in the advancement of human rights then we give them credit for, But sometimes trade offs are sadly a fact of life. At this time Saudi support is more important that telloing them their business. I do think it's important that we don't allow sympathy and bleeding hearts to cloud our vision, this women might have been offended, but had she not broke the lawfirst, would she have been in harms way. Nothing makes criminal rape acceptable, this case proved that. But simply because this girl was brutally assaulted, she herself has broken their countries laws not once, but twice. Is she a marter, is she a victim, is she a fool? Opinions will vary. My friend Orion is on track. He is getting involved in the process, our process. His local process and I assume he'll push further, I just hope if he discovers success he doesn't fall prey to the corruption many others succumb too. While I'm sure many on this board are aware of their political circumstance, far to many Americans find their politcal views are discovered on CNN or Fox. I offer my thanks and appoligies to the frozen feet of the men of Valley Forge. Live Free Men and Women, Bull quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster I think people are pointing to this case, and the American response to it, as an example of American hypocrisy, not as another foreign problem that we need to solve.

Divina -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 2:43:22 PM)
And I thought I was hijacking this...well... I feel that one more comment is in order... In today's globalised world, no country lives in a vacuum. Nor does any one culture, either, whether we like it or not. Informed citizens of this world have every right to make judgement on domestic and foreign issues; in fact, in my not so humble opinion -which is a result of my having been born in Greece, the origin of active citizenship- they have a duty to do so. They have no right to force their opinions, though. Now, is the object of criticism obliged to conform? Of course not. Can the object of criticism remain deaf? in this highly interactive globe, it cannot, even if it wanted to. Which means that we are justified to be appalled at the way the Saudis for instance treat their women, while remaining respectful of their culture, and the Saudis can adhere to their judicial practices or moral standards while examining the rationale and validity of domestic and foreign reactions to them. We must respect their right to be self disposed as much as we must respect our right to speak our minds. And if there is any progress to be made, in our becoming more tolerant, and their becoming more progressive, this is the way to do it. A visit in Amnesty International's site will give you plenty of reasons to be appalled, concerning a number of countries. And think, if there were no internal reactions to a lot of national practices, our -external - indignation would not really mean a thing.

thompsonx -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 3:34:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx cyberdude: Why is it OK for the U.S. to demand a change in the way the government of Afghanistan and Iraq operate but not Saudi Arabia? Nothing complex about it. We went there to fuck their women and take their dope. Who is next on the list...Venezuela, Iran, Cuba??? thompson Hell if it's just that we're there to fuck their women, I'm good with Venezuela or Cuba....uhhhhhhhhhhhhlala....cha cha cha......... Bull Bull: Take my word for it, Cuban women are smokin' hawt. thompson

farglebargle -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 4:26:20 PM)
quote: Or maybe we should send in troops. The troops were ALREADY THERE until Bush ran away from Saudi Arabia like a scared little girl who pissed her Little Mermaid underpants... Every woman living under sharia law needs an internet connection and an AK-47.

Sinergy -> RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... (11/22/2007 4:54:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level I think the average woman in the Islamic world is treated far worse than the average woman in the Christian one. Presumably you can back that up with some sort of statistical or factual basis? Sinergy p.s. little hint for you, I am sure you are aware that the vast majority of Islamic women live in Indonesia and are not subject to nor constrained by Sharia law.

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