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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 7:54:18 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

So if what you say forsake others is just meaningless in a marriage vow so taking a collar has that same meaning where do you draw the line


I'd just have to say what I told my father when he had issues with my Master (not the same issues, but the concept is still the same.)

Well, if this is a problem for you, then my best advice is: "Don't date them. People in relationships, regardless of how they're composed ask neither your permission, blessing or opinion. If you don't like doing what they do, then I'd suggest not getting involved with them. Otherwise, just keep looking for what you want instead of wasting time worrying about what other people have chosen for themselves."

Got it?

juliet

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 7:55:00 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

So if what you say forsake others is just meaningless in a marriage vow so taking a collar has that same meaning where do you draw the line


I think they can do what they please, and you can whine about it?

And that's about it?


lol agreed.  As much as you may want to be the fidelity police lb, there are so many more worthwhile pursuits in life.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 7:55:16 PM   
laurasecrets


Posts: 12
Joined: 12/29/2005
Status: offline 		personally I dont play with married people period anymore, that is my choice, what other people do in their bedrooms is not my choice and therefore not my problem, so i dont worry about it.

we (at least in theory - neither of us has lately exercised the practice) have an open relationship, but it is based on trust and mutual respect, and nothing is done without discussion and no decision is made without each others approval (maybe thats why... he keeps telling me that all other men are jerks and not worthy of me heeehee) but that is why we work...

so really, its your choice who you get involved with... and stop preaching, it is very unbecoming



_____________________________

[I] “No lover, if he be of good faith, and sincere, will deny he would prefer to see his mistress dead than unfaithful.”[/I] De Sade

[I]"That which yields is not always weak." [/I] Jacqueline Carey -- Kushiel's Dart

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:00:45 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

So if what you say forsake others is just meaningless in a marriage vow so taking a collar has that same meaning where do you draw the line


You do realize that those wedding vows are not written in stone right? You don't have to say that to get married. You can make your own now. It's really nifty, I can even promise to obey while Valyraen promises to command.


sure it is not written in stone  But the value of it is. or Promise. Yes Not everyone has that in their wedding vows this is true. But if then the meaing of commited realtionship has little or no meaning to what you set or say like a catch 22

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:03:04 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

So if what you say forsake others is just meaningless in a marriage vow so taking a collar has that same meaning where do you draw the line


You do realize that those wedding vows are not written in stone right? You don't have to say that to get married. You can make your own now. It's really nifty, I can even promise to obey while Valyraen promises to command.


sure it is not written in stone  But the value of it is. or Promise. Yes Not everyone has that in their wedding vows this is true. But if then the meaing of commited realtionship has little or no meaning to what you set or say like a catch 22


So my relationship has no value?

Very interesting Latex, you grow more and more "one way" with every post.

Your defination of "commited relationship" is only that, yours. It is entirely worthless when you try to apply it to anyone else. It matters only to you and those who seek to be your partner.

But I'll be sure to tell Val and his parents over Thanksgiving that our relationship is worthless and our defination of a marriage is completely incorrect since the Almighty Latex said so.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/20/2007 8:04:41 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:07:09 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Yes, LB, an oathbreaker is an oathbreaker.  So, I don't train them, and I tell them why---if they are faithless to one person, they may very well be faithless to me.  Do I care about the myspousedoesntunderstandmeIhaventhadsexinyears stories?  No.   Do I shun them socially?  No, not based on that.  I have met cheating spouses that make very devoted slaves.  Good for them, and their owners.

I am not the morals police.  All I can do is avoid the people who I find morally/ethically offensive.  There's a "prominent" top in our lovely neck of the woods who has chosen young mothers half his age as his last two submissives, behavior I find reprehensible.  I avoid his events, and offer no more than a cordial greeting to him.  Easy.  It's not for me to say anything else to him, or even hope that his behavior will catch up with him. 

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:07:54 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		here is the point you say one thing and do something else  does that mean you do not respect what you said the first time or is  it just flag of convenience

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:10:26 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Oh for heaven's sake!  Why don't you ask each of these folks individually?  Then you can listen to the tale of how they are stuck in the marriage for the kids, the money, the house, the whatever, and how it just didn't yadda yadda. 

Clean your own house first, it's the only one that matters.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:11:17 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

here is the point you say one thing and do something else  does that mean you do not respect what you said the first time or is  it just flag of convenience


Where are they saying one thing and doing something else?

I have promised to love, honer and obey Valyraen. When we marry I will promise to do those things for the rest of our lives in front of families. I have promised to not have sex with others without his permisson. I have promised not to play with others without his permission. I have never made a promise of "I will never ever ever play with others or play with other women's boobies or smack other men's asses". He has never wanted me to make that promise.

Simply because you would desire that promise in your relationship does not mean everyone will or even should.

Edited to make it perfectly clear: You spoke of open marriages, not where people are being deceived.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/20/2007 8:13:30 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:13:26 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		You can have a committed relationship with more then one person. Monogamy and commitment are not the same thing.

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:14:27 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		we all know relationhips change. people who been married ten years and discover the lifestyle. they go well I am into bdsm but my spouse is not so i am going to find a dom domme sub  does it make it right. ?

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:15:55 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

we all know relationhips change. people who been married ten years and discover the lifestyle. they go well I am into bdsm but my spouse is not so i am going to find a dom domme sub  does it make it right. ?


If they are being open and honest with their spouse about their changed needs and the spouse says "Go for it honey", I don't see why on earth it would be wrong.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:15:57 PM   
phedre81


Posts: 56
Joined: 10/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

we all know relationhips change. people who been married ten years and discover the lifestyle. they go well I am into bdsm but my spouse is not so i am going to find a dom domme sub  does it make it right. ?


It makes it THEIR relationship.

Not yours.

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:20:39 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		so in sense if tell you i am going to be this way and do something else it is ok to be that way even though  we said we would not but later say we will  does that mean less value of the relationship that even though it changes as they all do what is said is adapatable for the moment or for the lifetime  maybe it comes down to what does marriage or a collar really mean to you thats everyone

(in reply to phedre81)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:26:15 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Okay, you're going to have to re-post that last one with some punctuation.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:28:35 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

so in sense if tell you i am going to be this way and do something else it is ok to be that way even though  we said we would not but later say we will  does that mean less value of the relationship that even though it changes as they all do what is said is adapatable for the moment or for the lifetime  maybe it comes down to what does marriage or a collar really mean to you thats everyone


Ok Latex, again this is not insult but your posts are really hard to read. Please spend a little more time using punctuation. If they get too bad it's not going to be worth trying to figure out what you wrote.

Anyway I think you said: If people change and become interested in things they said they wouldn't be, is the relationship still valuable?

People change. This is a fact of life and no one can stop it. You get married to the person you think you will be compatible with for the rest of your life but sometimes that just doesn't happen. It is very sad, but that doesn't mean that a person should spend the rest of their life denying who they have become and being miserable.

It isn't just a BDSM thing. A mother may discover religion and leave her family to become a nun. A well to do doctor in DC may discover a need to provide medical services to the poor in Brazil and leave his family to go there. A housewife may realize that she is bored and lonely and reenter the business world, even though she always thought she would be blissful staying at home and raising children. An upper-level businessman may discover that all he really wants to do is stay home with the kids.

Some relationships will make it, others will crumple. It's the gamble you take.



_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:35:32 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		As people change and develope and evolve it is there responsibility to keep their partner or partners abreast as to how they are thinking and feeling, and as a unit they discuss and decide how to act or not act in accordance to the arising developements with in the relationship. This sometimes means making a previously monogomous relationship a open one. Sometimes it means making a previously open relationship a closed unit.

People have to be responsible for taking care of themselves and those they have made commitments too. If for some reason the changes with in self are so great the other or others can no longer adapt with them then it is time to end the relationship and move one, or decide to keep the relationship and give up on a need with in yourself.

You, the OP, started out asking about open relationships, then slid off into a tangent about cheating. These are two completely different things. You're trying to match apples to tangerines for crying out loud.

People in all walks of life cheat!! this is because there will be cheaters with in all walks of life. Every religion, every race, every belief system or sub culture. For some, cheating is part of their nature. Do not try and say because they are into BDSM is why they are cheaters. Because they are into swining they are cheaters. These are comepletely different.

If you are intimate with other people out side of your marriage and your partner is fully aware and supportive or heck with any luck actively involved, this is NOT cheating.  They are not breaking any promises or vows they made to each other.

For example, Knight, alandra and kyra, they all love each other and are commited to each other as a triad. Neither Knight nor alandra are "cheating" on the other by being involved or in love with kyra. (Hope you guys don't mind I used you as anexample )

Can people in an open relationship cheat?? YES!! by lieing and going behind the others back and being sneaky and hurtful.

If you go into a relationship with the complete understanding and acceptance that there will be others involved, but only with the support and acceptance of each other then there is no problem, there are no broken vows, there is no misconceptions.

It just is what it is.

< Message edited by akisha -- 11/20/2007 8:37:21 PM >

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 8:36:58 PM   
MsIncontrol


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

So if what you say forsake others is just meaningless in a marriage vow so taking a collar has that same meaning where do you draw the line


When I married my husband/submissive we did not include "forsaking others" in our vows.  Our marriage ceremony was less meaningful to us than our collaring ceremony which was years before the legal marriage.  We are polyamorous and haven't had any major issues with having another or others in our partnership.  I think the key for this to be successful is for everyone to be open and honest at all times, good communication and solid foundation.  Our marriage and relationship are wonderful, strong and getting better each day for almost 9 years.  We occasionally bring in others to mix things up a bit, not replace something that is missing.

_____________________________

Happiness is only real when shared. - Christopher McCandless

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 9:40:26 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		~ Fast Reply ~

It is always interesting to me how people get wrapped up in this one definition of cheating.  To me, "cheating" applies to so many things.  A man who beats/abuses his wife is cheating her of the husband he promised to be.  Yet how many people blame the wife for being "dumb enough to stay in the marriage?"  A wife who later decides she doesn't want children after all is cheating her husband of giving him the wife she had promised to be.  But that's a woman's right to choose, isn't it?  In my case, my ex husband cheated me by denying all affection, and by denying his promise to help contribute to our income.  Yet, he somehow decided that if I masturbate, that's cheating on him because I am "seeking pleasure without him."

It's odd to me to see so many opinions about "cheating" defined to just one thing.

In any case, I told my ex, "Well if you're not going to touch me, and I can't touch me, who is going to touch me?  Because I'm telling you right now - Someone is going to touch me!!"  Human's need touch.  Without it we wither.  In my case, he didn't answer the question, didn't touch me, still yelled at me for touching myself...so I found someone else who would touch me in SO many ways, and then left.

In my Master's case, he told his wife his need to dominate.  They discussed it at length.  He offered her to submit to him.  She declined, yet both wished to remain in the marriage.  They agreed he would safely seek this particular fulfillment outside the marriage.  It works for them.  It took the tension out of their marriage.   It works for me as he is awesome with me and I never want to marry again.  It didn't work for my ex husband, but that's because he didn't know how to love me.

(in reply to MsIncontrol)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 9:57:30 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

~ Fast Reply ~

It is always interesting to me how people get wrapped up in this one definition of cheating.  To me, "cheating" applies to so many things.  A man who beats/abuses his wife is cheating her of the husband he promised to be.  Yet how many people blame the wife for being "dumb enough to stay in the marriage?"  A wife who later decides she doesn't want children after all is cheating her husband of giving him the wife she had promised to be.  But that's a woman's right to choose, isn't it?  In my case, my ex husband cheated me by denying all affection, and by denying his promise to help contribute to our income.  Yet, he somehow decided that if I masturbate, that's cheating on him because I am "seeking pleasure without him."

It's odd to me to see so many opinions about "cheating" defined to just one thing.

In any case, I told my ex, "Well if you're not going to touch me, and I can't touch me, who is going to touch me?  Because I'm telling you right now - Someone is going to touch me!!"  Human's need touch.  Without it we wither.  In my case, he didn't answer the question, didn't touch me, still yelled at me for touching myself...so I found someone else who would touch me in SO many ways, and then left.

In my Master's case, he told his wife his need to dominate.  They discussed it at length.  He offered her to submit to him.  She declined, yet both wished to remain in the marriage.  They agreed he would safely seek this particular fulfillment outside the marriage.  It works for them.  It took the tension out of their marriage.   It works for me as he is awesome with me and I never want to marry again.  It didn't work for my ex husband, but that's because he didn't know how to love me.


you explained it so much better then i could. When we Promise something and do something else. Then it is no Long er conseual or respected. So we can come with tons of excuses and say well I thought you knew we had a open relationship .MsIncontrol quoted this
(We occasionally bring in others to mix things up a bit, not replace something that is missing. ) I think this is where the problem lays with things. When needs are not met. When People do not stand by what they say. Is not our lifestyle about honesty or is it just a paper moon. All an illusion

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 40
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