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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 10:01:54 PM   
denika


Posts: 619
Joined: 8/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Not everyone includes those vows as part of their marriage ceremony.

Knight's Kyra


Rob and I wrote our own vows, ones we knew we would hold too, and no where in there was  'foresake all others' 


Wolf's denika

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 10:06:35 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64
you explained it so much better then i could. When we Promise something and do something else. Then it is no Long er conseual or respected. So we can come with tons of excuses and say well I thought you knew we had a open relationship .MsIncontrol quoted this
(We occasionally bring in others to mix things up a bit, not replace something that is missing. ) I think this is where the problem lays with things. When needs are not met. When People do not stand by what they say. Is not our lifestyle about honesty or is it just a paper moon. All an illusion



I explained it, and yet I was disagreeing with you in many ways.  The good bad and ugly folks in our "lifestyle" are the same good bad and ugly folks in any other kind of lifestyle.  We are people, plain and simple.  We all have our struggles and weaknesses.  We all get lost along the way at times.  Show me a marriage in which EVERY need is met and you will be showing a rarity.  The cool thing is when people in relationships get creative so that their needs ARE met, without having to destroy the relationship to do so.  And that is why you see poly relationships.   It is a way to preserve the shared love between people while still meeting each other's needs.  I would much rather see people do this than break up unnecessarily.  There is a philosophy that is shared by many, which says one person can not possibly meet all the needs of another.  So, you either compromise on your needs (thus leaving them unfulfilled) or you find a way of having them met elsewhere.  And if everyone is in agreement as to how those needs are going to be met, then there really is no problem, is there?

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 10:09:54 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

you explained it so much better then i could. When we Promise something and do something else. Then it is no Long er conseual or respected. So we can come with tons of excuses and say well I thought you knew we had a open relationship .MsIncontrol quoted this
(We occasionally bring in others to mix things up a bit, not replace something that is missing. ) I think this is where the problem lays with things. When needs are not met. When People do not stand by what they say. Is not our lifestyle about honesty or is it just a paper moon. All an illusion



So what you are saying is that unless two people are completely monogamous with each other, they don't respect each other and the relationship is not consenual?

Because the whole "I thought we had an open relationship" seems to be a failure in communication - something found in relationships of all types, regardless of the number of parters.

_____________________________

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(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 10:25:09 PM   
Wickad


Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
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To the OP:

I must say that your position that people should live up to the promises they make is one that I totally agree with.  If someone promises to have sex with only their partner then they should live up to that promise, negotiate a new promise, or end the relationship.  There is absolutely no reason for lying (at least in my opinion).

That being said, many of the people who have responded here are not lying or cheating on their partners.  They and their partner have not made a promise to not have sex, play, or either with other people.  They in fact have made a promise to play, have sex or both with other people.  They have gone to great lengths to set out guidelines and boundries that both parties feel comfortable with.

I really do wonder at the OP's obvious hostility towards people who live a lifestyle that is an alternate to his.  After all, don't most of us seek to live a lifestyle that includes alternate power structures, pain, suffering, and/or humilliation for the sake of enjoyment.  Wouldn't more vanilla people seek to save us from ourselves?  Maybe the OP should really leave people to live as they wish in the hopes that he would be afforded the same luxury in his lifestyle choices.

Wickad

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 10:33:49 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
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quote:

ORIGINAL: phedre81

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

So if what you say forsake others is just meaningless in a marriage vow so taking a collar has that same meaning where do you draw the line


I do my best NOT to draw the line for other people.


Sadly, not a concept understood by the OP

(in reply to phedre81)
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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 10:37:15 PM   
sammy7626


Posts: 89
Joined: 8/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

So if what you say forsake others is just meaningless in a marriage vow so taking a collar has that same meaning where do you draw the line


I haven't read all the way ahead, so I'm not sure if this has been addressed or not, but not all of us have the same wedding vows, and not all of us define the vows we took the same way. 

The only part of my marriage vows I take literally are "to have and to hold in sickness and in health, for richer for poorer, for as long as I live". 

I love him, I care for him, I take care of him, he takes care of me, and he'll have to kill me to divorce me.  But no where in there does it say I can't play with anyone else.

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 11:05:03 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline 		If I had a pound for every time I have heard the same kind of thing from the OP I would be a very rich person. You are not confused by this situation at all as it is something you comment on constantly.

I am in the most committed relationship I have ever been in. I love my partner and in am in doubt that he loves me too. When we first got together we agreed the terms of our relationship. One of the things we agreed to was that he would see / play with other people and I would not. Both of us fully understood what we were agreeing to and neither of us has any issues with the agreement. It is never cheating as when he sees other people I am totally aware of where he is and who he is seeing so it trully is an open relationship. I realise that situation would not work for you but there are many many people that it would work for. That does not make it wrong for those that are happy in their relationships, and yes they really are happy.

I agree with the poster that said you need help with your issue with this. The chip on your shoulder is now as big as the Grand Canyon but nowhere near as attractive.

(in reply to sammy7626)
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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/20/2007 11:10:29 PM   
Tigrita


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Even if people initially take the vow to forsake all others, in this day and age of a 50% divorce rate or something, what if a re-negotiation of that would save the marriage?  If they change and find needs that are not being met, they are not fulfilled, and need D/s to feel that, and they discuss it honestly and agree that they'd rather open the marriage in order to save it, do you see that as lying, cheating, saying one thing and doing another? 

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 2:31:31 AM   
pinksugarsub


Posts: 1224
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

I see  Married People on here dom subs dommes a lot of open marraiges. for me It just means drama in waiting. How do you feel about people who are lin the lifestyle who want to play out side of marraige and is it kinda of a lie to what they have  shrugs


i have several married Men friends who have or are seeking submissives or slaves.  In each case, the wife has no interest in D/s and is permitting the husband to get His kink on with another woman, secure in the belief that her position as wife will never be threatened.  Some couples hae negotiated specific boundaries; most have at least some general ones, and the husband adheres to them.
 
i would not date a married Man because He cannot offer me my heart's desire -- a monogamous relationship.  Not every submissive or slave feels this way and it's a very personal decision.
 
i will say vanilla Men are much more aggressive about pursuing me even though they are married, and are almost all lying to their wives.  Just my own personal observation.
 
pinksugarsub

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 3:02:32 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

I see  Married People on here dom subs dommes a lot of open marraiges. for me It just means drama in waiting. How do you feel about people who are lin the lifestyle who want to play out side of marraige and is it kinda of a lie to what they have  shrugs


Well here we go.....I have been thrice married and the marriages didn't work for more serious issues than he fact that I knew/suspected/found outt afterwrads that each husband was 'cheating'.....I was cheating too and looking back I felt it was ok for me to cheat but not ok for them....that was hypocritical of me.

In my lifetstyle now, since I am by nature poly I again cannot expect to be hurt or offended by a partner being poly also.
If I am truthful I rather like the thrill of it all, an open arrangement....but I also agree someone somewhere will get hurt as the truth is usually the most hurtful thing in the short term but is the only thing that works short term.

In the dynamic of the relationship I am in my Dom has told me categorically it's not for me to know who else he is having a relationship with, but he expects to know what I am doing. Now I can either withold information, thus lying, but mre importantly break the dynamic. As a submissive my purpose is to serve and to make Him and allow him, enable him to be happy. That is what makes me happy........and although that feeling of letting go and handing over the controle is difficult at times....it's either the dynamic we agree upon or not.
The truth is also that I am far far more attracted to a man who is having relationshipds with others than a man who insists on making me his one and only....it's far too possessive and so my idea of being owned is a complex one: as long as I am owned it's of no business to me who else us owned although I have stated that my ideal would be one Dom and another femme sub. That would be an absolte ideal blessed life for me.

But, and I think this is the final line: I don't 'do' marrieds meaning I don't play around with vanillas who are married at least if they tell me. How else would I know? It would just be that I would be having a relationahip with a liar.                                             



(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 3:07:39 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		greetings

just as in the vanilla world i would not even think of going out with a married man! it is just not right and someone will get hurt after a time this is just too much drama even with just a single ,male . i had many married man ask me out they say their wives love the ideal lol and i have a bridge to sale someone. i have heard of jealous women becasue they become so involve with the woman to much t is so sad no i will not do it still! there are many who will stiill do it if it is ok with them good luck but heart ache is around the conrner

mons

(in reply to akisha)
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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 6:00:54 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		Some people are wired for poly and some aren't. Some share easily and don't get jealous. For people like that it's really not a problem as long as the ground rules are discussed and agreed upon by both. As long as those are met both will feel secure in the primary relationship and there are no problems. Drama can happen in any marriage and for people who like to enjoy outside relationships, it actually reduces a lot of the drama. There is no fear of the other person sneaking around or having affairs or being attracted to someone else.

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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 6:04:45 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I could never tell by looking at a woman's cunt if it is married.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 11/21/2007 6:05:03 AM >

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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 7:27:24 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		I Guess you just do not get It. SO i will put in your face with a none of the expression of artistic thinking which  I can not stand is this
IF YOU SAY SOMETHING TO SOMEONE.  A Promise, A vow, A commitment.  And you break that via Cheating via lying . via what ever then be a selfish  SOB. Now to what i wanted everyone to look at was. Sense everyone is missing the banana boat.. We all have a set of rules and ideas and concepts for relationships. it is the value and the responsibility of both or all parties involved to adhere to What is  sad about our community. It  has be come  meat market central. A fashionable statement.
To those who keep twisting the thread into my this or me that quit over assuming things and get off your ass and just keep it to the subject.  IT IS a un bias post.

People assume to much no wonder people are on prozacville.  I see a lot of this People who never take responsibility for their actions. Passing the Buck Blaming someone Else. How in the hell can you ever grow. This is about being Fair and honest some people should try it. While others  I do not think others are capable of such things. I think they are seriously Flawed 

   Here is where i see a big problem. Often times I see people who are to accepting of hurtful or bad behavior. It dose not take a rocket scientist to see the damage it does to friends family and yourself.  Take responsibility or life will back at you

< Message edited by LATEXBABY64 -- 11/21/2007 7:40:21 AM >

(in reply to TNstepsout)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 7:36:49 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

so in sense if tell you i am going to be this way and do something else it is ok to be that way even though  we said we would not but later say we will  does that mean less value of the relationship that even though it changes as they all do what is said is adaptable for the moment or for the lifetime  maybe it comes down to what does marriage or a collar really mean to you thats everyone


After reading through all the posts, it seems that you need to hear the other side of the story from someone who has and is "the other person" in an affair. Yes I do take a committed relationship seriously especially my own. Frankly, people have affairs outside their marriage for many reasons, which are entirely their own. My reasons for being involved is simply because I am getting my needs fulfilled through the affair. The same applied when I was in a committed relationship and it was open, meaning we both had a clear and concise agreement that we would play with others together, upon a mutual agreement and attraction to a third person.
   Frankly it is not for me to judge a married man who steps out of his marriage with his spouse's knowledge and I do not concern myself with that. What is important at that time is we connected based upon a mutual desire and attraction between us and I was able to fulfill some of his needs which he wasn't getting from his spouse. Every affair I had been involved in, I entered with my eyes wide open, with the knowledge that I was never going to be anything more them a diversion on a short term basis. Yet there are vast numbers or relationships that are closed and neither partner has any desire to cheat.
  


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(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 7:48:41 AM   
grlneedstolearn


Posts: 728
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline 		i'm not fond of people who are already married and wanting to explore this side of the fence so to say. Only because, to me, it puts a lot of limits on what you can and can not do. It's also like your the third wheel and you can not really tell if the other person is telling his or her wife/husband about this other person. It just seems all wrong to me, it also goes along the lines of someone who got divorced, same situation. i just hate being already involved with someone who will have a hard time putting a lot of forth effort in this lifestyle. But everyone has their own kink, of which it is not mine.

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 7:51:19 AM   
astarri


Posts: 265
Joined: 4/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

IF YOU SAY SOMETHING TO SOMEONE.  A Promise, A vow, A commitment.  And you break that via Cheating via lying . via what ever then be a selfish  SOB. Now to what i wanted everyone to look at was. Sense everyone is missing the banana boat.. We all have a set of rules and ideas and concepts for relationships. it is the value and the responsibility of both or all parties involved to adhere to

  Here is where i see a big problem. Often times I see people who are to accepting of hurtful or bad behavior. It dose not take a rocket scientist to see the damage it does to friends family and yourself.  Take responsibility or life will back at you

What you are  not hearing Latexbaby is that you have a set of rules and ideas and concepts for YOUR relationships. Everyone has a different set of rules and it is not up to you to make them for them. You place a high emotional value on sex .... super ...realize that not everyone does. Some people veiw sex as a physical act that any two people can do.
I do notice that you are very adament about holding your position that anyone who cheats is a moral monster. We all hear you. Apply that to your own life instead of every one else's. Why do you care what other people do in their marriages? Why does this ruffle your feathers so? Use this trigger you have to become more self aware.

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 7:51:20 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

I see Married People on here dom subs dommes a lot of open marraiges. for me It just means drama in waiting. How do you feel about people who are lin the lifestyle who want to play out side of marraige and is it kinda of a lie to what they have shrugs


Can you explain this better?

How is being poly a lie?

I can certainly see that lying is lying and that making a promise to be monogamous and then breaking it is cheating but some of us never made that promise.

Regardless of whether or not someone did, unless they come on to you for a scene, how is it any of your business?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 7:52:21 AM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

I Guess you just do not get It. SO i will put in your face with a none of the expression of artistic thinking which  I can not stand is this
IF YOU SAY SOMETHING TO SOMEONE.  A Promise, A vow, A commitment.  And you break that via Cheating via lying . via what ever then be a selfish  SOB. Now to what i wanted everyone to look at was. Sense everyone is missing the banana boat.. We all have a set of rules and ideas and concepts for relationships. it is the value and the responsibility of both or all parties involved to adhere to What is  sad about our community. It  has be come  meat market central. A fashionable statement.
To those who keep twisting the thread into my this or me that quit over assuming things and get off your ass and just keep it to the subject.  IT IS a un bias post.

People assume to much no wonder people are on prozacville.  I see a lot of this People who never take responsibility for their actions. Passing the Buck Blaming someone Else. How in the hell can you ever grow. This is about being Fair and honest some people should try it. While others  I do not think others are capable of such things. I think they are seriously Flawed 

  Here is where i see a big problem. Often times I see people who are to accepting of hurtful or bad behavior. It dose not take a rocket scientist to see the damage it does to friends family and yourself.  Take responsibility or life will back at you


Let me put this in your face and see if you can get it, which I doubt because you can only see as far that huge chip on your shoulder. As many here have told you, including me, we are in open relationships. There is NO cheating and NO lying. I know what he is doing and when he is doing it and I am happy that he is doing it.

Nobody is getting hurt, not me, not him. I really for the life of me cannot see how it can possibly hurt my family or his as they are not involved in any of this nor are our friends. You have told me before that people are going to get hurt but you cannot explain how people that have nothing to do with the situation and will never know about can possibly get hurt.

We get that you want monogamous and that is fine. Look for what you want but do not shove your wants on to others.

I, and many others on here are perfectly happy with our relationships the way they are. Are you happy in YOUR relationship?

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: WOW totally confuzzled - 11/21/2007 7:52:32 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Not everyone includes those vows as part of their marriage ceremony.

Knight's Kyra


Exactly.

Tom and I wrote our own vows and very purposely left out any claims or promises to monogamy.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 60
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