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RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 5:53:41 PM   
AquaticSub


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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Dear AS-
 
So his religion is wrong, but yours is OK? where is the line? What are the rules?
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence


Existentialism sucks like that.

Oh no... not the existentialism...

*hides under her bed*

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 5:55:20 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
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From: Tidewater, VA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I do not believe that God wants particularly me to submit to Valyraen, though I don't think it bothers Him either way. I believe God made me the way I am. That is many things, one of which just happens to submissive. It just means I happen to be the most fulfilled in a d/s relationship. That does not make Valyraen some sort of spokesperson for God whom I must obey without question. Not even God gets away without me questioning Him and His desires for me, Valyraen certainly can't!


Dear AS-
 
I am assuming that 'god' is omniscient and omnipotent- which would mean that you submit to M. Valyraen becuase it's part of his plan- and that you really can't question it, or him.
 
If 'god' as you use it, is not omniscent and omnipotent, what is he? pretty smart and fairly strong?
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 5:57:31 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I do not believe that God wants particularly me to submit to Valyraen, though I don't think it bothers Him either way. I believe God made me the way I am. That is many things, one of which just happens to submissive. It just means I happen to be the most fulfilled in a d/s relationship. That does not make Valyraen some sort of spokesperson for God whom I must obey without question. Not even God gets away without me questioning Him and His desires for me, Valyraen certainly can't!


Dear AS-
 
I am assuming that 'god' is omniscient and omnipotent- which would mean that you submit to M. Valyraen becuase it's part of his plan- and that you really can't question it, or him.
 
If 'god' as you use it, is not omniscent and omnipotent, what is he? pretty smart and fairly strong?
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence


As I am sure you are aware, not every faith system believes there is a set plan which contains every tiny detail of your life. Not even every faith system believes one can not question their faith or their God. The Jewish encourage discussion, debate and question and have even made it part of their religious text with the Talmud.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:00:47 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetfem

if someone was really fairly fundamentalist Christian i think they could reconcile it so long it was always the man who was the Dom and the sub was always a woman, that there was no oral/anal, the pair was strictly monogamous.. that would be in a religion that did not ban non-procreative sex acts. 


Instead of being a dissenter, I thought would be a little bit constructive in this decision.

According to Peter J. Gomes "The Good Book", (I haven't actually read the whole Bible so am going to go with his synopsis given that its highly accredited) the Bible never once condemns human sexuality for pleasure and non-procreative purposes. A lot of the common quotes that appear to be condemning it are vicious abstractions.

The Bible warns against human sexuality for pleasure because it can lead to false idolatry....worship of the human body as opposed to worship of God. It never clearly says "Recreational sexuality is bad", but rather "Recreational sex can be bad because it can lead a person away from God".

All the "Sex is sin" stuff comes from St. Augustine's "City of God".

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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:01:28 PM   
LadyLegs


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Status: offline 		I keep looking for the part in Genesis where God created Adam & Eve and then the devil snuck in & slapped on the genitals...

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RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:01:47 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Dear AS-
 
So his religion is wrong, but yours is OK? where is the line? What are the rules?
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence


Existentialism sucks like that.

Oh no... not the existentialism...

*hides under her bed*


Hey...hey....I'm kind of on your side this time around. Don't screw it up!!

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:03:19 PM   
carlie310


Posts: 256
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline 		You condemn any belief in god in others? Or just choose not to indulge yourself?  I assume you realize that you have declared most of the people who have ever lived mentally ill. 

Do you make sure that all of your partners--in any venture--don't have this magical thinking? What about your doctors? Other professionals?  Such a statement--that people of faith can't give consent, and (by implication) are legally incompetent--must restrict your dealings with the world at large. 

Most people who believe acknowledge that there isn't a logical foundation for their beliefs--that is, after all, why it is called faith. 

And WRT the original post. . .I don't have a problem with how my spiritual  life and sex life intersect.


(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:03:41 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		M. Madrabbit-
 
<blink> I may be a bit rusty, but Kirkgraad<sp> is where I think of as where existentialism began, and think he would have been a truly rational thinker if he'd lived long enough to fully develop his work...
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:04:02 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Oh no... not the existentialism...

*hides under her bed*


Hey...hey....I'm kind of on your side this time around. Don't screw it up!!


....

Would you like some chocolate cake? It's got buttercream frosting...

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:13:50 PM   
carlie310


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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlie310

(quick reply)

There's also the small issue that chopping someone's head off is against the law, unlike the typical Sunday morning service.


Dear Carlie,

So you think that man's law is greater than God's law? If god appeared to you and told you to do something, you'd start debating it's legality with him?

Stay warm,
Lawrence


No, that's not an issue for me.  I drew that line for you, since you asked where it was & what the rules were. My lines are drawn a bit differently. 

If god appeared to me, though, I'd probably have more on my mind than a Lexis/Nexis search.  I certainly wouldn't want to debate the law with someone who is omniscient, since I am not.  I do think that there are times when what the law requires of someone could be outside of what god might prefer.  Obvious examples spring to mind on both positive & negative (someone earlier mentioned King, Ghandi and Tutu, for example.)

Warm isn't an option right now, since the oven is on, but thanks. 

(edited to move the quote from being bottom to Top)



< Message edited by carlie310 -- 11/21/2007 6:16:01 PM >

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RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:15:04 PM   
LadyChef


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Joined: 11/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

 Do you think it is possible for someone to have 'faith' in God (or your deity or religion of choice) and live a BDSM lifestyle at the same time?If so how do you reconcile the two ?
I can`t wait to hear what folks say to this one .

As a born again believer in Jesus Christ, Son of the living God, my faith remains strong. There is a scripture in the BIBLE, for believers, which states "the marriage bed (room) is undefiled", meaning what goes on in the bedroom between married people is their business. If my sub-husband likes to please me by being tied and tortured, and I get aroused from hearing him scream as I whip him, how is God going to be upset if we are both pleased?  God created sex to be good, and as time has gone on, man has just aquired some kinky and freaky ways to enjoy it. Even as I delete many screened e-mails from would be "slaves/subs", who I know are only interested in sex (I know there are some that are real and unique- I just haven't encountered them yet), and not a relationship, I keep hoping to find someone who shares my tastes, and/or beliefs.

(in reply to HardnRuff)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:17:13 PM   
HardnRuff


Posts: 213
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		A lot of religions are not about faith or beliefs... But I understand what you mean.

I think BDSM can be an spiritual path. There are even books about this, for example, "Radical Ecstasy".

It is true, however, that sexual repression is important for many religions, and those don't mix well with BDSM.


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RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:18:18 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Oh no... not the existentialism...

*hides under her bed*


Hey...hey....I'm kind of on your side this time around. Don't screw it up!!


....

Would you like some chocolate cake? It's got buttercream frosting...


Cake? 


_____________________________



(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:21:36 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		God is Good, it creates a belief that one is accountable to one with more power than oneself.

Only crazies use it as an excuse to do evil things. Usually by using scripture twisting to justify it. After all, you can take almost anything out of context, and make it say something else-until someone who knows the whole story calls bullshit on it.

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RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:22:15 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

M. Madrabbit-
 
<blink> I may be a bit rusty, but Kirkgraad<sp> is where I think of as where existentialism began, and think he would have been a truly rational thinker if he'd lived long enough to fully develop his work...
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence


I was talking about his belief that irrationality (the spiritual void or the spiritual need) is a normal part of the human mind.

I normally enjoy being on the other end of this discussion as far as the validity of Christanity, but I think proclaiming all irrational beliefs as a form of mental illness to be a very gross, unfair, untrue, and insulting statement.



_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:23:51 PM   
AquaticSub


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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
....

Would you like some chocolate cake? It's got buttercream frosting...


Cake? 



Yes cake! Fortunately, I baked extra. Plenty to share with my CM pals and still have one to take to Thanksgiving dinner.


And my baking extra had nothing to do with my sweet tooth. I swear.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:24:11 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		Dear Carlie,

quote:


You condemn any belief in god in others? Or just choose not to indulge yourself?  I assume you realize that you have declared most of the people who have ever lived mentally ill. 


Yes, Yes, and Yes. I was raised roman catholic, lived as a practising Buddishist for over twenty years, and only a few years ago realised the what the world need was not more religous tolerance, but  less- in fact, the only hope for the planet is total, global (in both senses of the word) intolerance of religion.
 
Time to grow up, people, and stop blaming goods will for our wars, poverty, cultural injustice, genocide, and the intrawebs destabilising influance on marriages in america.

quote:

Do you make sure that all of your partners--in any venture--don't have this magical thinking? What about your doctors? Other professionals?  Such a statement--that people of faith can't give consent, and (by implication) are legally incompetent--must restrict your dealings with the world at large. 


Partners? yes, a few relationships have ended becuase I came to realise that they weren't just kidding about the whole god thing. I mean, what if god comes to them in the night, as he often does, and tells them to cut my head off  while I sleep?
 
Doctors? Absol friggin lutly! the only reason a educated professional would espose a belief in god is to pre-excuse their failure! "'we did all we could, but it was god's will that he die..." I'll take a grown up who can say, "I did my best and he died anyway" rather than trying to fob off their failure on some bearded fascist hiding in a cloud.
 
quote:

Most people who believe acknowledge that there isn't a logical foundation for their beliefs--that is, after all, why it is called faith. 


Yes, I do realise that most people who believe admit that they are irrational, and then they go right ahead and insist that you pretend that they are not crazy. but they are! They said so! that's just nuts.
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to carlie310)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:25:52 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Time to grow up, people, and stop blaming goods will for our wars, poverty, cultural injustice, genocide, and the intrawebs destabilising influance on marriages in america.



It could easily be said that this is your own belief system, your own religion against religion. Making you as crazy as the rest of us.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:26:46 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
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From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

God is Good, it creates a belief that one is accountable to one with more power than oneself.

Only crazies use it as an excuse to do evil things. Usually by using scripture twisting to justify it. After all, you can take almost anything out of context, and make it say something else-until someone who knows the whole story calls bullshit on it.


Now waitaminnit!
 
You can't say it's god's credit when people are good, but not his fault when they are bad. but you just did!

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: * Beliefs and beatings * - 11/21/2007 6:28:28 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
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From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Dear Luci-
 
Are you saying that you think that mentally ill people, those that cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality,  should be allowed to practice BDSM?

No.  I'm saying that believing in a deity does not make one mentally ill.  I am further saying that is the height of arrogance to paint millions of people with one broad brush stroke simply because you don't share their beliefs.  That, Lawrence, is what I'm saying.
quote:

I really don't feel comfortable with the idea, for the same reason I believe that children, animals, and the dead should not do this stuff we do

Your comfort level is really irrelevant to what it is that I do.  If I really took your statement seriously, it would be sad.  As it stands, it's just bait and simply laughable.
 
You stay warm too.........luci

 


_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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