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Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:17:21 AM   
velvetears


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Status: offline 		You either love them or hate them.  i want to know how you do a mind fuck successfully without undermining the trust issues in the relationship?   Are they done to test the sub/slave, to frighten him/her?  What other reasons would one do a mind fuck? 

i like to keep an open mind about things but i think a dom who really got off on them would piss me off eventually.  It would be hard to trust someone like that and i prefer trust in my relationships.  Maybe there is something i am not understanding about them that someone can shed some light on??

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:23:38 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

i want to know how you do a mind fuck successfully without undermining the trust issues in the relationship? Are they done to test the sub/slave, to frighten him/her? What other reasons would one do a mind fuck?


Without giving away the store this may be an impotent allegory.

Have you lost trust in Sean Connery because he really is not james bond.....

Mind fucks are a suspension of disbelief often by prestidigitation and illusion, and are not always a social commentary or a lesson for grasshopper------

Sometimes they are there just so for one brief shining moment you can see Camelot.

If one hurts a woman to feel make her good,  by endorphins, what then by a mindfuck has  the relief  of  awashment  accomplished?

Ron


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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:23:41 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I do not know his entire motivation in mindfucking me, all I know is that the result makes me feel small and vulnerable, and that is very satisfying. In my opinion a good mindfuck deepens the trust, not undermines it...

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:31:57 AM   
velvetears


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Status: offline 		Well Ron i guess it wouldn't surprise you to know i absolutely HATE magic and illusion. i don't sit and go ohhhhh ahhhhh - i go ho hum it's all just a waste of time because it's just a trick and not real.  But i understand what you mean, there doesn't have to be any decisive reason to do them or like them.

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:33:32 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
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Status: offline 		To me a mind fuck is a scene where the bottom is dangled on that line of "He wouldn't, would he?" As long as that true seed of doubt is maintained within the scene, you've got a mind fuck going.

And to add- to me a good scene is one where everyone at the end of it feels like it was a great experience.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_500869/mpage_1/key_mind%252Cfuck/tm.htm#501674
Mind fuck?
http://www.collarchat.com/m_258217/mpage_1/key_mind%252Cfucks/tm.htm#258236
Mind Games

The Ultimate Mind Fuck

Mind Fucks

Mind Fucks- Unhealthy or Simply Sadistic Play?

Your best mindfuck as a scene is?

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:34:34 AM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not know his entire motivation in mindfucking me, all I know is that the result makes me feel small and vulnerable, and that is very satisfying. In my opinion a good mindfuck deepens the trust, not undermines it...


Are you saying you don't care what the motivation is behind the mind fuck just that it makes you feel "small and vulnerable" which i assume you enjoy?    Are there any motivations you would find distasteful? 

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:39:44 AM   
velvetears


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Status: offline 		Thanks LA, i understand what you are saying but for me there can't be any doubt "he would", if there was then "i wouldn't" lol..... so in essence or theory i couldn't be mind fucked.   i don't say that as any kind of challenge, just saying that for me there is either trust or there isn't.  If i do trust him then he can't get me to believe he is doing something he's really not - ie i would know it was a mind fuck. 

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:44:30 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Status: offline 		But you believe he's fallible, and not omniscient?  Trust doesn't apply when it comes to things like catching colds, remembering the time, who will call on the phone.  You can't trust him to be perfect or to always know all the variables all the time.  There's a lot of room to play with there.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 12/8/2007 9:45:12 AM >

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:47:06 AM   
breatheasone


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Status: offline 		This is something I think is bad for building and maintaining a healthy relationship.(my opinion only) If someone has to "test" to see if their partner is up to snuff then the relationship has more issues than just surviving a test to me that is. I would never stand for that like of manipulation. Life is WAY too short for games...deal with me honestly and openly and we will grow like you wouldn't believe... try to mess with my head or manipulate me...and we have NO where to go.

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:51:41 AM   
crouchingtigress


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From: Maui
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in life when we are faced with anything we dont like we always have two options: fight or flight, but if you are tied tight, and neither are an option...where can you go?

well that is such an interesting question, and one that has as many different responses as there are people, that some people like to find out for themselves.

to find out with out a safety net in a non controlled environment could be hazardous right? but in a controlled BDSM scene, where there is already a foundation of trust established, it allows you to investigate and push the boundaries of things like, trust, intimacy, sadism, illusion, surprise, adrenalin, ect...

also there is a secondary benefit to the mind fuck: the Stockholm syndrome effect, which basically is a part of most peoples brains that are so wired for survival that they identify and fall deeply in love with the person putting them in harms way.

so its win win.


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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:53:43 AM   
Decimus


Posts: 174
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		Sean Connery is NOT really James Bond?!?!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Edit: I hit submit before actually addressing the thread, oops!

Personally I am similar to your opinion Velvet that I would either trust someone not to do something horrific of I wouldn't be with them so they couldn't mindfuck me with that, however if Aerith did that to me with something that was within the realm of possibility, then it would work. You're thinking of a mindfuck as something that is against a hard limit or something very bad. I could be as simple as "Sure your allowed to watch your favorite TV show, but afterwards you have to do such for me...then realizing your show isn't on tonight." Yes I admit that was a poor example, which explains why I am a sub not a dom but the point is valid, a mindfuck as others have stated is just a change in perception similar to magic, which I on the other hand do enjoy trying to figure out how they did it, that and it looks really cool!

< Message edited by Decimus -- 12/8/2007 9:59:40 AM >

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:55:27 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		See how simple some mindfucks can be folks?


Of course he is my dear, I was just fuckin with ya.

Ron 

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 9:55:54 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
This is something I think is bad for building and maintaining a healthy relationship.(my opinion only) If someone has to "test" to see if their partner is up to snuff then the relationship has more issues than just surviving a test to me that is. I would never stand for that like of manipulation. Life is WAY too short for games...deal with me honestly and openly and we will grow like you wouldn't believe... try to mess with my head or manipulate me...and we have NO where to go.

Equating "tests" with "mind fucks" is a really inaccurate thing to do.  They are not at all the same.  I do mind fuck scenes regularly, in fact I'm planning one tonight (one of the few times I actually am planning a scene).  It's not a TEST of anything, it's just a fun mind fuck for us all to enjoy.  We all like it.  It's a scene, everyone knows it's a scene, and when it's over, we'll all be in that happy post scene glow (if all goes well.)

Like any kink, if it's not for you, then great.  But don't suggest that your reaction to being fucked with mentally IN A SCENE is what a mind fuck scene is about or for for everyone.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 10:01:23 AM   
Decimus


Posts: 174
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Status: offline 		Um thanks Ron, although since I'm a guy its a little weird you calling me the dear sentimentallity, however I appriciate the statement in the context which it was given.

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 10:02:09 AM   
therealboss


Posts: 227
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		hmmmmmmm,,,,,somethings are best left private 

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 10:04:34 AM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
This is something I think is bad for building and maintaining a healthy relationship.(my opinion only) If someone has to "test" to see if their partner is up to snuff then the relationship has more issues than just surviving a test to me that is. I would never stand for that like of manipulation. Life is WAY too short for games...deal with me honestly and openly and we will grow like you wouldn't believe... try to mess with my head or manipulate me...and we have NO where to go.

Equating "tests" with "mind fucks" is a really inaccurate thing to do.  They are not at all the same.  I do mind fuck scenes regularly, in fact I'm planning one tonight (one of the few times I actually am planning a scene).  It's not a TEST of anything, it's just a fun mind fuck for us all to enjoy.  We all like it.  It's a scene, everyone knows it's a scene, and when it's over, we'll all be in that happy post scene glow (if all goes well.)

Like any kink, if it's not for you, then great.  But don't suggest that your reaction to being fucked with mentally IN A SCENE is what a mind fuck scene is about or for for everyone.

I do not say that ANYTHING I say is for everyone...as a matter of fact I go out of my way to do the very oppoisite. I hope you have a good time this evening as well.

< Message edited by breatheasone -- 12/8/2007 10:06:15 AM >

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 10:11:55 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

This is something I think is bad for building and maintaining a healthy relationship.(my opinion only) If someone has to "test" to see if their partner is up to snuff then the relationship has more issues than just surviving a test to me that is. I would never stand for that like of manipulation. Life is WAY too short for games...deal with me honestly and openly and we will grow like you wouldn't believe... try to mess with my head or manipulate me...and we have NO where to go.


i am not sure you understand what a mindfuck is breathasone, maybe the link LA posted will shed some light.

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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 10:15:37 AM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

To me a mind fuck is a scene where the bottom is dangled on that line of "He wouldn't, would he?" As long as that true seed of doubt is maintained within the scene, you've got a mind fuck going.

Oh yeah, been there.  Beeing done from behind, with the KY prominently displayed.  It really was a "he's not gonna do that now, is he?" situation.

thornhappy

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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 10:22:04 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
This is something I think is bad for building and maintaining a healthy relationship.(my opinion only) If someone has to "test" to see if their partner is up to snuff then the relationship has more issues than just surviving a test to me that is. I would never stand for that like of manipulation. Life is WAY too short for games...deal with me honestly and openly and we will grow like you wouldn't believe... try to mess with my head or manipulate me...and we have NO where to go.

Equating "tests" with "mind fucks" is a really inaccurate thing to do.  They are not at all the same.  I do mind fuck scenes regularly, in fact I'm planning one tonight (one of the few times I actually am planning a scene).  It's not a TEST of anything, it's just a fun mind fuck for us all to enjoy.  We all like it.  It's a scene, everyone knows it's a scene, and when it's over, we'll all be in that happy post scene glow (if all goes well.)

Like any kink, if it's not for you, then great.  But don't suggest that your reaction to being fucked with mentally IN A SCENE is what a mind fuck scene is about or for for everyone.


I agree with LA,  and the feeling is much like that of being on a rollercoaster ride you know you are actually going to be okay but there is still that sense of fear/thrill as you going swooshing over the top.

An  example of a  simplified form of mind fuck   say as a teen you and your boyfriend go  parking  and while in a state of  compromising position  he suddenly teasingly whispers "shhh  I think I hear someone coming"   the feelings you experience thinking someone is actually out there and may catch you becomes the mind fuck


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RE: Mind Fucks - 12/8/2007 10:22:09 AM   
vield


Posts: 354
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Status: offline 		A great topic, and I see it is generating some good discussions.

My thought is that there is a BIG difference between mindfucks during fun play or socializing, and mindfucks that pop up (actually blow up) in areas that are core parts of a relationship.

Teasing, a little uncertainty, a little fear can be very hot during play as long as I can completely trust that the "mindfucker" has total respect for my mind and body, and that my limits will be totally respected.

If a partner mindfucks about violating trust, limits or consensuality that is NOT acceptable and is gonna be the end of the road for them with me.

IF someone uses mindfucks to humiliate and belittle you and you knowingly consent to this, great. Some folks really get off with stuff like that.

If you have a hard limit about this and a partner viloates it intentionally, my thought is that they just bought themself a bus ticket on the Greyhound.

When a trusted partner is playing with you in the dungeon in front of 300 people and they keep changing the rythms, the toys, the intensity of the impacts and soft caresses, the areas of you they are tormenting, this can be a mindfuck that keeps you excited and on the edge, and holds you back from flying off into subspace or into orgasmic explosions a long time, it is likely you will REALLY feel the difference in insensity when they finally do "make" you go over the edge...

When the masks come off at midnight and you see than hot slave chick you have been chatting up is actually George the neighborhood cop, that is a mindfuck too.

I always recommend negotiating with and questioning partners before play to try to
be as sure as possible that everyone fully undestands clearly what everyone else is talking about.

It happens all the time that honest people honestly discuss their likes and dislikes and limits without going into detail, and then are dismayed when each has a different view of what the terms actually mean. If anal play means enemas to one partner, means rimming to another partner and means strap on play to you, somebody may regret they checked "yes" to that when negotiating.

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As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

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