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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 3:10:33 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		One possible reason for the sentencing disparity is the purported difference in addictive power... that doesn't mean colour has nothing to do with it.

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 3:16:49 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

One possible reason for the sentencing disparity is the purported difference in addictive power... that doesn't mean colour has nothing to do with it.


Nitpicking again as usual i see..... Okay yes, the judge may be racist, but the law sets the punishment for set crimes, and in itself it does not discriminate.

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 3:19:30 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Funny how anything pointing out inequality in the reality for minorities is 'nitpicking', 'playing the race card', etc. to you. 
Must be nice to be so attuned to the ways of the world....  


http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/review/11731leg20040511.html

http://www.irr.org.uk/2002/november/ak000004.html

http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/race/criminal_justice.htm

http://www.sentencingproject.org/Admin/Documents/publications/rd_reducingrdmanual.pdf

http://www2.mnbar.org/benchandbar/2001/may-jun01/racial-disparity.htm

http://www.sentencingproject.org/crackreform.aspx

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_court/decisions/uskimbrough.pdf

http://www.drugtext.org/library/articles/shein01.htm



< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 12/12/2007 3:36:25 PM >

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 3:28:22 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Funny how anything pointing out inequality in the reality for minorities is 'nitpicking', 'playing the race card', etc. to you. 
Must be nice to be so attuned to the ways of the world....  


You didnt point out anything, i stated quite correctly that the law for possesion of crack is the same whatever race one may be. I never mentioned playing the race card either, you did.

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 3:34:47 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


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Status: offline 		Just pass me the crack vile and the white women and I'm fine!

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 3:41:23 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Funny how anything pointing out inequality in the reality for minorities is 'nitpicking', 'playing the race card', etc. to you. 
Must be nice to be so attuned to the ways of the world....  


You didnt point out anything, i stated quite correctly that the law for possesion of crack is the same whatever race one may be. I never mentioned playing the race card either, you did.


No, you said that the law itself is not discriminatory, after claiming that color played zero part in the racial disparity in incarceration.. 

There are two reasons for making such a blatantly incorrect statement... one is actual ignorance of the reality that the law does in fact discriminate (and that race was very much a factor in setting the law up that way), and the other is malicious hatemongering.

I did you the courtesy of assuming that the first reason applied in your case.

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 3:46:29 PM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Funny how anything pointing out inequality in the reality for minorities is 'nitpicking', 'playing the race card', etc. to you. 
Must be nice to be so attuned to the ways of the world....  


http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/review/11731leg20040511.html

http://www.irr.org.uk/2002/november/ak000004.html

http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/race/criminal_justice.htm

http://www.sentencingproject.org/Admin/Documents/publications/rd_reducingrdmanual.pdf

http://www2.mnbar.org/benchandbar/2001/may-jun01/racial-disparity.htm

http://www.sentencingproject.org/crackreform.aspx

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_court/decisions/uskimbrough.pdf

http://www.drugtext.org/library/articles/shein01.htm




Yes you are nitpicking as usual although I do believe you are also correct in your point that inequality in the way the law is administered is a reality.  However politesub's statement was:

"Crack is seen as more addictive so it carries a heavier penalty. If you are charged with carrying crack, you face the same possible sentances"

Which is also true.  His statement is not blatantly incorrect.  You are blatantly absurd in your inability to comprehend what is actually said and desire to argue incessently about your superiority.

By the way, the topic of children sufferring is the issue.  Addressing that issue would seem much more important than this debate.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 12/12/2007 3:48:25 PM >

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 3:46:29 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Alumbrado, the only comment i made was that crack carries the same sentance whatever race you are.

And thanks for the links i will read them since you have added them.

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 4:14:56 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:


I think it would be just as interesting to know what the figures were 200 years ago for the blacks in Africa, the Mexicans in Mexico, and the Native Indians here in what is now the USA... before the Anglo-Saxon influence.
quote:

    Not trying to be mean, but please go a little further back in history than 200 years. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a person of mixed race, i have lived in more than one world all my life.  There are always exceptional people and unmentionable people- whatever the race may be.
It's unfair to use race as an excuse for children being raised in single parent homes, but it is even worse to blame single parenting for a criminal mentality.  The fact is most people posting here aren't any of the things they claim to be so knowledgeable about. How many single African-American mothers are posting? How many black males raised by a single mother?  Likely, few if any.   Statistics can be skewed to make anyone sound informed.  Let's remember, we are all one race...HUMAN. 


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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 4:18:55 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ

Just pass me the crack vile and the white women and I'm fine!




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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 5:47:51 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I get a kick out of these stats because the way that Whites are treated by law enforcement and the justice system is drastically different than what Blacks experiece. The crime of having a bag of cocaine carries a lot less of a penalty tha crack cocaine... I wonder if they came down as hard on the Ken Lays of this world if the prisons would be filled with Whites...


Its got nothing to do with colour. Crack is seen as more addictive so it carries a heavier penalty. If you are charged with carrying crack, you face the same possible sentances.


Have you done both crack and powder cocaine? I have, and I can tell you addiction to cocaine is addiction to cocaine... one is just purer than the other, but there are other ways to get pure powder uncut coke... the sentence for pure cocaine should be the same as for crack.

And the sentence for crack cocaine deals with who uses it, which at one time was mostly Black men.

I am still waiting for White collar crime to be prosecuted with the same sort of passion that people put into the crimes of the poor and economically challenged. Because I tell ya, criminality isn't a Black thing, it is a human thing.




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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 7:23:32 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I can tell you addiction to cocaine is addiction to cocaine...





           But the nature of the high is very different, due to the form of ingestion.  The more intense the high, the more intense the effects on the individual, and their impact on society.  The speed of the drug's negative physical effects is dramatically increased as well.  Smoking cocaine is a very different thing from snorting it, and both are very different from eating or drinking it.  The power and nature of the psychological addiction can be very different.

        Are you seriously trying to suggest, Julia, that the three days a rockhead spends in jail are the same experience as that of a Peruvian grandmother who comes to visit her expatriate family and can't get her tea for the first time in her life???    Get real.
      

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 7:36:21 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I said purified coke is purified coke...and chewing leaves or making tea compared to pure cocaine is like comparing pot to LSD.

I wonder how much damage to society the cretins that play with the banking system and corporate criminals do? I bet more than all the street dealers.,.. in fact I bet it is a White guy that most profits from the drug trade, he never touches the shit, but he is still profiting from it

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 7:44:05 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		        You think crack is 'pure?'  You are confused with freebase.  What gets sold on the streets is a flammable hell broth.  It's BROWN for crying out loud, (looks like shelled peanuts).  It is far more destructive, both to the users, and society.

       Way to try and change the subject rather than admit you made a completely ridiculous and wrong declaration of fact.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 7:59:35 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		free basing cocaine purifies it.

I have seen people take almost uncut cocaine and judge how pure it was by how much was lost in producing rocks... but that is just me, and I am not a chemist, and they could have been wrong

Way to not admit that the laws are not applied  the same way in our justice system based on ethnicity.

edited to add.... my teen years were spent on the wrong side of the tracks

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 12/12/2007 8:02:49 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 8:01:40 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ

Just pass me the crack vile and the white women and I'm fine!


That made me chuckle,... thanks

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 8:02:06 PM   
MistressPav


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ

Just pass me the crack vile and the white women and I'm fine!


LOL
DarkDaddy, you ROCK
{{HUGSS}}


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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 8:04:21 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDaddyZ

Just pass me the crack vile and the white women and I'm fine!


On this note, I must echo and comment: "You DO rock DarkDaddyZ!"



< Message edited by MzMia -- 12/12/2007 8:05:19 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 8:20:22 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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Status: offline 		I work on the south side of Chicago......I actuly work in the highest crime district in the city. I know one thing for sure, and it is not " liberal guilt" it is easier to be whire in  America han not white

Jeff
( really white.......like I don't even tan well)

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RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility - 12/12/2007 8:45:00 PM   
popeye1250


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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		NEWSFLASH!!!

Don't use drugs and you won't go to jail!

The penalties for "crack" and "powdered" cocaine should be the same, 50 years in jail no parole!
Who really gives a shit what "kind" of junk they use?
Let them out when they're in their 70's.
"Go right ahead and try it again old timer!"

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