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RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/15/2007 8:38:01 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

snip
You say she find's the idea unacceptably perverse ... well bully for her ... time she got over herself and her hang ups.  
snip


but to say someone who married vanilla is at fault for not accepting a just thrown upon them kink........well.......thats BS in my book.


Where in the author's post does he even suggest that this is a "just thown upon them kink" ... you, nor I, how long she has being aware of his proclivities ...

The reason I suggest she can get over herself ... is she will NEED TO if she want's her marriage to survive.  There are TWO people in the marriage not just herself.

If a partner came to me and spills their guts about their kinks then I as their partner for love and life have every responsibility to my relationship be open to understanding their needs...



and you being willing to do that would show your commitment to the relationship, which is a good thing.....i dont find it a bad thing on her part, or showing a lack of commitment to the relationship if she has no interest at all in it.....she has the right to say no kink is my kink and who are we to judge her on that?   this aint for everyone.


When did I state she has to have an interest in his kinks or she will be showing a lack of commitment to her partner?  She can be little miss vanilla for the rest of eternity for all I care ...plenty of vanilla partners have kink SO and handle the jandal when their partner's get their needs met elsewhere ... 

He has opened up to her about his desires and she has said moreorless fuck off you disgusting little perv ... I hold no judgement on her being vanilla ...I hold no judgement on her distaste ... but I will pass judgement on partner's who refuse to engage in an open dialogue as a way of finding a solution.   What I offered up in my original post was tools for the latter... shoot me for suggesting she stop being a princess about it and actually see her partner as an individual and not a cardboard cut out penis in the role of 'husband'.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/15/2007 8:40:42 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mimkyodar

Can i just say that's one of the best posts i've ever read?




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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/15/2007 8:54:44 PM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fan2sighz

I'm married and would like to explore my submissive side. But my wife is not only uninterested, she finds the subject unacceptably perverse. Is there a way to pursue my fantasies while maintaining my marriage? Thanks


Anything that you chose to do will ultimately affect your marriage.  Don't kid yourself about that.  Think about what it is you have to lose, and weigh that against what you'd get out of exploring the lifestyle. 

I'm going to be not too nice here, and don't take it personally.   It's not meant to be. 

The majority of guys who are "interested in the lifestyle" are simply turned on by some vague concept of unlimited quantities kinky sex with Leather Barbie that they think they'll be entitled to if they slap the "slave" label on themselves.   These are the guys that swear up and down that they'll do ANYTHING for a potential domme but won't take out the garbage or load the dishwasher at home unless the wife nags them to do so.   In other words - they're looking for an unrealistic fantasy, not the reality of BDSM relationships.  The fantasies have little to do with submission because they're not really interested in submitting to the will of another, but rather to fetishize and objectify a Domme to the point that she's not a person.

Eventually, most "subs" drop out when they realize their demands will not be met.  Fortunately, some learn better and dig deeper, and find something that really IS for them.

My advice would be to spend some serious time AWAY from porn of ANY kind and start learning about the reality of BDSM.    Read the forums here, read books on the lifestyle, get a grip on your fantasies, and try to get a realistic view of what it is you actually think you want. 

Meanwhile, start learning to serve your wife - be attentive, be caring, focus on pleasing her - without bringing up the kink.  If you find that's not your cup of tea - BDSM as a lifestyle isn't what you're really looking for.

If you ultimately decide to explore outside the marriage, do understand that you will most likely have to go the prodomme route.   Very very few lifestyle Dommes will consider married men - and there are many MANY married men vying for the attention of the few that will. 

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to fan2sighz)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/15/2007 9:07:49 PM   
MistressPav


Posts: 350
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		A wife that truly loves you and cares about you will conform (or at least try to ) to your wishes.  Life is way too fucking short.
If YOU don't make yourself happy, no one will.  Fuck the kids, divorce her and move on.

~Pav


_____________________________

Proud Owner of Zubi
(my boy "ToyZ")
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"An it harm none, unless they deserve it, do what ye will." --Scorpio Creed

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/15/2007 9:22:43 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well, that's a little hard to accept.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav

Fuck the kids

(in reply to MistressPav)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/15/2007 9:29:27 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood
The majority of guys who are "interested in the lifestyle" are simply turned on by some vague concept of unlimited quantities kinky sex with Leather Barbie that they think they'll be entitled to if they slap the "slave" label on themselves.  


Bah. Bullshit. You know nothing.
Nothing personal, 'course.


Three questions for the OP:

Can you face life without being a submission? If so, do it.
If not:
Can you leave your wife? If so, do it.
If not:
Are you ready to face the afterlife?
If not: Roll the dice on cheating. Hope you've got a good credit limit.

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/15/2007 9:36:45 PM   
carlie310


Posts: 256
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline 		Pursue fantasies while maintaining the marriage? Probably not.

Are there other problems in the marriage?  If not, take slavekal's advice and do the ultra-chivalrous. She'll appreciate the attention, and might be more receptive to some very slight changes in the bedroom.  And while you're doing that, thank your lucky stars.  I'm a female sub in somewhat same position, and if my husband took that advice, I would be more able to work past the power mis-match.

(in reply to fan2sighz)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/15/2007 9:49:57 PM   
NovaDragon


Posts: 7
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fan2sighz

I'm married and would like to explore my submissive side. But my wife is not only uninterested, she finds the subject unacceptably perverse. Is there a way to pursue my fantasies while maintaining my marriage? Thanks


Why does she find it perverse?  Is it because of her upbringing?  A general lack of knowledge?  Lots of people fear the unknown, or find it distasteful simply because it is unfamiliar.  Can you explain to her that submission is about a power exchange, and doesn't necessarily have to do with BDSM?  Would that help her to be more accepting of your submissive tendencies?

Or are you really seeking BDSM, not just submission and the power exchange?  If that is the case, you have a harder battle to fight.  Perhaps giving her some reading material, pointing her to informational websites and the like would help, so she could see that you are not alone in these desires, that plenty of other sane people enjoy the same kinds of activities you are interested in.

(Okay, so there are less-than-sane people interested in BDSM as well, but that can be said for 'nillas, too!   )

(in reply to fan2sighz)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/15/2007 9:52:18 PM   
iwearpanties


Posts: 509
Joined: 7/21/2005
Status: offline 		this is a topic that can go on and on . How divorce isnt that easy any longer now a days the guy ends up paying his ass off and every thign is split 50/50 but some how it seems the female always wins .....and the wy thigns are now you can have your wages garished before you even see your pay check so think twice aboiut the BIG D

(in reply to carlie310)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/15/2007 10:01:50 PM   
carlie310


Posts: 256
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iwearpanties

this is a topic that can go on and on . How divorce isnt that easy any longer now a days the guy ends up paying his ass off and every thign is split 50/50 but some how it seems the female always wins .....and the wy thigns are now you can have your wages garished before you even see your pay check so think twice aboiut the BIG D


If I were you, I'd check the statistics on the impact divorce has on the standard of living of both of the former spouses before saying the female always wins.

(in reply to iwearpanties)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/15/2007 10:03:21 PM   
CdnExplorer


Posts: 227
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline 		Some here, as usual, have suggested simply focusing on serving your wife as best you can as a way to satisfy the need. I have to wonder if they really understand submission from the bottom half of the equation. Doing things to make someone's life easier is utterly unfulfilling as a submissive unless there exists intent from the top half of the dynamic. Selflessly doting on her every whim without her taking any authority in the matter is a road that leads nowhere. If you explain your needs to her in this way; that is her in charge of the relationship and you serving (while leaving out fetishes / kinks), you may find she's more receptive. In time she may grow into it a little and be more open minded. The key is her getting over the hump of "we have to live the way everyone else says we have to live". Then again she may truly be of the mind that men are supposed to be in charge...in which case your only hope is her being open to you satisfying your need to be controlled elsewhere.

If she won't do that then she's just selfish and I'd hold little hope for the marriage. Just give it some time and don't dump it on her all at once. She may be afraid that if you start being submissive you won't be a "real man" anymore. There's a stereotype associated with male submission that probably turns her off. If you can introduce things slowly, so that she can get used to them, she'll likely see that you're still the same man you always were. I wish I could be a little more specific with my advice but I really don't have any experience in this. I was lucky and discovered my submissive side before getting involved in a really serious relationship. Best of luck to you!

(in reply to carlie310)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 12:37:25 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fan2sighz

I'm married and would like to explore my submissive side. But my wife is not only uninterested, she finds the subject unacceptably perverse. Is there a way to pursue my fantasies while maintaining my marriage? Thanks


If you are absolutely flexible in your expectations and desires, there is still some hope. The bottom line is this.  If she finds BDSM to be "unacceptably perverse," it could very well be due to the stereotypes that S&M have.  If when she thinks about female domination she thinks of latex clad bitches with whips, men in gimp costumes barking like a dog, or a host of toys and props that appear to be more important than mutual affection - then, sure, of course she is turned off.

That's the uphill battle.  So, the question is, how did she get these ideas?  I always recommend that submissive men do NOT show their wives BDSM magazines or movies to "show them" what it is about, or buy them toys or outfits.  That's all intangible and may appear "sick and twisted."  Instead, focus on laying a foundation that presents power exchange as mutually exciting, sensual, and fun.  No toys.  No props.  No expectations.  No roleplaying.

On my web site, I explain to women that even *I* was grossed out by MUCH of what is considered S&M when I started experimenting, and I am a "born femdom."  I was tying up the opposite sex before I ever had an orgasm.  I was into shackles and blinfolds long before I lost my virginity.  I found the rush to be in the idea of erotic control, the rush I got from seeing a man helpless in a very sexy way, and the thrill of knowing he was absolutely at my beck and call. I have a theory that MOST women enjoy, on some level, seeing their man a little helpless or uncomfortable.  Look at the games young women play with men.  They mind fuck them, they tease them, they make them beg for attention, they tease them in front of their friends.  These are all forms of playful sadistic cruelty that give women a little tingle deep down.  What woman doesn't enjoy putting on the sexiest dress in her closet and watching how her man wants her so badly?  It feels good to be *worshipped*.  That is something universal to women.  So drop the props, toys, and roleplay and start at the bottom floor.

I explain to women that they don't need to worry about the latex outfits, the whips, the snarly attitude, or the toys they think are "gross."  If they have a partner willing to be patient and grow with her, she can takes steps and find her OWN style of domination that is comfortable.  What MOST submissive men want is a woman who feels sexy and empowered by her power -- not one that feels uneasy, confused, or resentful by what she is doing.  When women here this, they are considerably relieved.  After all, it's not THAT hard, is it?

I have helped "convert" many vanilla women, including my own girlfriends.  Of course, no one can turn a vanilla woman into a hungry tigress who actually has a lustful NEED to have her man submit; but, I think most women can get in touch with a part of themselves that enjoys the rush that comes from taking control.  They just have to see it in a way that resonates with them, not in the way that it is portrayed in porn.  Sadly, that's all most women have to compare it to.

Akasha


_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to fan2sighz)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 12:50:47 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		DITTO on what Jasmyn said...as well as assurance that it CAN work. My second husband had no interest in the lifestyle. We talked about it. He asked what I liked about it and what I wanted out of it. I explained that what really turned me on was the SM and such. We agreed that there would never be any penis/vagina penetration and off I went. I've known several couples who work like this and I've had several married subs who knew there was a sexual limit.

We did end up divorcing, but for reasons not totally related to the lifestyle. We simply grew apart spiritually.

Master Fire


_____________________________

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(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 3:13:37 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

snip
When did I state she has to have an interest in his kinks or she will be showing a lack of commitment to her partner?  The reason I suggest she can get over herself ... is she will NEED TO if she want's her marriage to survive.  There are TWO people in the marriage not just herself.  
 
yes there are 2 in it-he can just as well get over him self, if he wants the marriage to survive.



She can be little miss vanilla for the rest of eternity for all I care ...plenty of vanilla partners have kink SO and handle the jandal when their partner's get their needs met elsewhere ... and plenty dont handle it well or at all

He has opened up to her about his desires and she has said moreorless fuck off you disgusting little perv ... I hold no judgement on her being vanilla ...I hold no judgement on her distaste ... but I will pass judgement on partner's who refuse to engage in an open dialogue as a way of finding a solution.   when it comes to things of a sexual nature, most folks will not even entertain the idea.

What I offered up in my original post was tools for the latter... shoot me for suggesting she stop being a princess about it and actually see her partner as an individual and not a cardboard cut out penis in the role of 'husband'.  


wow....either i cant communicate well or you are not listening......to me, it seems as if you are saying he told her this and she needs to accept it and quit being a princess......wait, thats exactly what you did say, among other things like get over her self.

what i am saying, is that for most folks, accepting their spouse going to another person for fulfillment in any sexual way is an absolute hard limit.  and just as i wish to not be judged because of my kink, i choose to not judge those who want no part of it in their relationship.

if the thought is repulsive to her, then he has as much (or more)responsibility to the marriage as she does.  he has the ultimate power to decide if exploring his submissive side is worth divorcing or lying.......if she married him with no knowledge of this, it is he-not she-that is changing the rules.....and she is under no obligation to agree to this change.

im not saying i dont wish them success, i am saying the way you place all the "responsibility and blame" on her is wrong, imho


_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 3:26:23 AM   
girlygurl


Posts: 6973
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: in the palms of His hands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iwearpanties

this is a topic that can go on and on . How divorce isnt that easy any longer now a days the guy ends up paying his ass off and every thign is split 50/50 but some how it seems the female always wins .....and the wy thigns are now you can have your wages garished before you even see your pay check so think twice aboiut the BIG D


Divorce isn't easy for anyone.  From personal experience the female does not always win!  Shortly after I remarried my ex saw dollar signs and went after me for child support.  We had 50/50 custody btw... and the sob won!  I had to pay support for two years.  It really sucked when I saw his new motor home in the drive way.

OP~ communication, communication, communication  good luck.

girly

(in reply to iwearpanties)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 3:39:57 AM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fan2sighz

Is there a way to pursue my fantasies while maintaining my marriage? Thanks


I have attempted to convert a 'disgusted spouse" (unsuccessfully) and later cheated on him, which lead to my divorce

I disapprove of cheating and will never cheat again, but I have some pragmatic advice for you:

There's rules to cheating:

1   Only cheat with someone who has more to lose than you if the secret gets out.  Pro-dommes are the safest choice and married cheating women the second safest choice. 

Avoid single women and women in "open marriages" like the plague, unless you want to leave your wife as soon as someone better comes along.

2   Never, ever admit to cheating or that you are even tempted to cheat.  Not even here on the boards.  Always pretend the absolutely last thing you would ever do is cheat.  No-one - not even other cheats - will tell you "cheating is OK".  Infidelity is a social taboo and you must join the conspiracy of silence

3      Take responsibility for your moral choices.  Never try to justify yourself by blaming the wife with lame excuses like "she was vanilla" or "she found me perverse" or "i was born submissive". 

4    Cheating is great fun (which is why over 50% do it!!!!) so if you choose fun over fidelity in your life, own the decision as solely your decision and no-one else's fault

5     ........and try very hard not to go home with a sh*t-eating ear to ear grin!!!

By all means try out all the great suggestions above as well, but if your wife really doesn't respect your needs, I am guessing you guys have a hostile relationship already and not enough love and trust between you to build a successful D/s relationship or let you run off and get a Mistress with your wife's blessing

But hey, I could be wrong......try it out and see.

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 12/16/2007 3:58:37 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to fan2sighz)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 4:36:28 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav

A wife that truly loves you and cares about you will conform (or at least try to ) to your wishes.  Life is way too fucking short.
If YOU don't make yourself happy, no one will.  Fuck the kids, divorce her and move on.

~Pav



wow......i hope you never have kids

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to MistressPav)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 4:55:46 AM   
DianeB269


Posts: 1596
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline 		Good Luck!


Diane

(in reply to fan2sighz)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 7:51:40 AM   
glynn012954


Posts: 19
Joined: 8/6/2004
Status: offline 		A-men to the 5 step program

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

quote:

ORIGINAL: fan2sighz

Is there a way to pursue my fantasies while maintaining my marriage? Thanks


I have attempted to convert a 'disgusted spouse" (unsuccessfully) and later cheated on him, which lead to my divorce

I disapprove of cheating and will never cheat again, but I have some pragmatic advice for you:

There's rules to cheating:

1   Only cheat with someone who has more to lose than you if the secret gets out.  Pro-dommes are the safest choice and married cheating women the second safest choice. 

Avoid single women and women in "open marriages" like the plague, unless you want to leave your wife as soon as someone better comes along.

2   Never, ever admit to cheating or that you are even tempted to cheat.  Not even here on the boards.  Always pretend the absolutely last thing you would ever do is cheat.  No-one - not even other cheats - will tell you "cheating is OK".  Infidelity is a social taboo and you must join the conspiracy of silence

3      Take responsibility for your moral choices.  Never try to justify yourself by blaming the wife with lame excuses like "she was vanilla" or "she found me perverse" or "i was born submissive". 

4    Cheating is great fun (which is why over 50% do it!!!!) so if you choose fun over fidelity in your life, own the decision as solely your decision and no-one else's fault

5     ........and try very hard not to go home with a sh*t-eating ear to ear grin!!!

By all means try out all the great suggestions above as well, but if your wife really doesn't respect your needs, I am guessing you guys have a hostile relationship already and not enough love and trust between you to build a successful D/s relationship or let you run off and get a Mistress with your wife's blessing

But hey, I could be wrong......try it out and see.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 7:58:48 AM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		If you need some ideas on how to get to ultra chivalrous, here is something I did just last night.  And milady is already heavily into this lifestyle.  We went to a formal event, and our area is under a major blizzard.  Ms. Mlicious was bare legged and wearing high heeled sandals that offered almost zero protection from the elements.  So I carried her into the club.  As we entered, there was a collective AWWWWWWWWW from all the onlookers.  You can start with a move like that.

(in reply to DianeB269)
Profile   Post #: 40
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