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RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 8:29:35 AM   
unforegvn


Posts: 159
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fan2sighz

I'm married and would like to explore my submissive side. But my wife is not only uninterested, she finds the subject unacceptably perverse. Is there a way to pursue my fantasies while maintaining my marriage? Thanks


I was married once upon a time to a man that thought the same as your current wife.  I opened up to him; eventually; we divorced because he considered my perverse thoughts unacceptable.

What did she find perverse?  You may have to accept that she will never accept your ideas - I wish you good luck! 

(in reply to fan2sighz)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 11:11:08 AM   
Wickad


Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		(fast reply)

Greetings,

There seem to be a few folks on this thread who believe that the 'wife' should just do whatever her husband wants in order to maintain their marriage.

This is complete crap - in  my opinion of course.

To begin with both parties got into this relationship when it looked a certain way - vanilla.  Now, it seems, that one of the parties is having second thoughts as to how he would like the situation to play out.  That is not the fault of the wife, nor is it her problem to fix.  She is not the one that misrepresented herself or changed the rules with no thought of the other person.  She is not selfish and she should not have to change to 'dom her hubby the way he wants'.

The only thing she has to do is be true to herself.  If she truly believes that BDSM, D/s and SM are perverse then that is her right and who on earth are we to criticize her for her choices.  We all want people to accept us for our choices so maybe we should accept that others have different choices.

The only thing he has to do is determine if he is willing to live up the commitments he made or if his urge for D/s is too great for him to do so.  If his need to be submissive out weighs his need to live up to his marriage vows then he has two options - cheat or divorce.  The decision to do either should not be entered into lightly but it is his choice.  As others have said, he needs to own both of these choices - his wife did not 'drive him to it', and it wasn't 'all her fault for not understanding'.  Either choice is based on him being true to himself and thus are solely on his shoulders.

So, ... I guess he has a few decisions to make.

Wickad

(in reply to unforegvn)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 12:14:21 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		She did take vows, you know.  "Till death do us part" has become "OK, I'll stay married to you as long as I like the way things are going, so if anything unexpected happens to you, fuck you, it's not my problem."

If that's how it's going to be, what on earth is the point of getting married at all?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wickad

That is not the fault of the wife, nor is it her problem to fix.

(in reply to Wickad)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 12:36:39 PM   
PrincessDonna


Posts: 189
Joined: 7/7/2006
Status: offline 		Always the level headed one I would tell her that you are willing to seek therapy for these issues if they offend her and look for someone(hopefully with her) that deals with fantasies and possibly even get her some written text about it.It's not something that came up in her "birds and bees" talk I'm sure.There is a very good chance that she doesnt even understand the difference between Domm and sadist (lots dont).Just continue doing things to worship her,running bubble baths with rose petals etc.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 3:23:31 PM   
petpete


Posts: 677
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		fan, if you want my personal experience i'm afraid i will disappoint you by telling you that marriages like these are very hard to continue.. i was in the same state till we lost interest of each other, so we ended up our marriage.

_____________________________

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Max: And loving it!


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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 3:33:47 PM   
MotherEve


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/24/2006
Status: offline 		  The obvious, he should be faithful to his wife.  If he cannot live happily with his committment to her, get a divorce, then come on Collarme.   How many chimps does it take to change a light bulb?

(in reply to petpete)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 3:46:51 PM   
unforegvn


Posts: 159
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

She did take vows, you know.  "Till death do us part" has become "OK, I'll stay married to you as long as I like the way things are going, so if anything unexpected happens to you, fuck you, it's not my problem."

If that's how it's going to be, what on earth is the point of getting married at all?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wickad

That is not the fault of the wife, nor is it her problem to fix.



What exactly is death anyway?  Biological death isn't the only death that can occur the 'death' of the marriage; is actually a death.  She may think their marriage and/or husband is terminally ill because a cancer has consumed  him ~ "he" is going to die ~ perhaps he should be put on life-support.  He was courageous in my mind to bring up the fantasies in the first place. 

If she wants to save her marriage, she will consider it her problem.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 5:52:50 PM   
CdnExplorer


Posts: 227
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline 		She's certainly not selfish to not take on his fantasies and become his domme, but she's selfish as hell to think he should just ignore a core part of his being. Either be open minded enough to explore it with him or let him fill the need for control elsewhere. If she loves him at all she'll pick one of these things. This is a marriage headed down a one way road with a fork coming up. Either a path is chosen, or the marriage will crash into the trees and leave one hell of a mess behind.

(in reply to Wickad)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 6:04:20 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		i just do not get the logic of those of you saying it is up to her to accept this core part of his being and it is up to her to change to suit his "needs".

if he has just discovered this part of him, he has to talk to her and if she is not accepting, it is his problem.  if he has known about this core part of him self for years, he should have sought out a mate that had the same ideas of what a relationship is.

using this logic, if , for example, a wife came home and said i have decided i need to fuck others in order to be fulfilled, the husband would have to say well ok hunny.....if thats what you want.....

if you wish to change the rules/limits in a relationship drastically, and the other party is unaccepting of it, you have to decide which is more important.  they made their choice on becoming involved with the person they knew, and they have no obligation to get in a relationship with the "new" person if it goes against their core beliefs of what is acceptable.





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(in reply to CdnExplorer)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 6:54:17 PM   
carlie310


Posts: 256
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline 		FR to the discussion of the wife's responsibilities:

Since people grow and change throughout a marriage, both partners need to adapt to the changes.  Sometimes they're small, e.g. "I want to start taking Yoga classes on Sunday mornings instead of watching the bobbleheads on the television."  Sometimes they're huge, "I'm going to be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life" or "I want you to have authority in the bedroom & other places." 

The responsibility to adapt to the changes rests on both partners.  Neither one of them made a vow to stagnate and remain exactly the same. 

Now, any assumption that the couple in the OP won't be able to adapt is just that--an assumption.  But if any marriage is going to survive, both partners need to be able to adapt to the changes.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/16/2007 7:48:52 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		The thread has gone in a couple of different directions.  Good conversation and interesting to read.

There was a very good questsion.  Really, the answer is "do" or "do not".  (I suddenly sound like Yoda or from some part of the Karate Kid.)  In other words, you're either going to act on these things or refrain from acting on these things.  There really isn't an inbetween.  That might mean making a decision on what's more important to you.  Whether wanting to own up to it or not, most actions have consequences.  You have to know what it is worth to you.  What holds the greater value?  Your inner desires?  Your wife?  Your integrity? 

Before anyone blasts Me for being too harsh with that statement, I'm talking about the extremes here.  If the wife can't handle a husband who's become interested in BDSM, it could come down to alternative lifestyle or divorce.  If the potential answer is stay, but lie and cheat in the meantime..... Well, that is an integrity issue, whether some would like to dispute the fact or not. 

So, that's the beginning of My advice.  Figure out what is most important to you, and what you might have to sacrifice to keep it.  You really need to know that answer before involving the wife, or anyone else for that matter.

About the wife, I have to say no, it's not her responsibility to accept this change and make the whole thing work.  She didn't marry someone with these interests, and it's not fair to just pop up one day and say this is who you are.  Would you expect her to just climb on board if you came home one day and said you were somethng else that was completely different than the person you married?  What if she came to you one day and decided she was something that "disgusted" (you're word, not Mine) you?  If she doesn't accept it, she doesn't have to, and it's not her fault.

Lastly, just so you know there is a little hope out there......  I happen to know a submissive who is fairly close to Me, who was in something of a similar spot.  From the time he got married, he had told his wife that he was not exactly vanilla.  The wife didn't think much of it.  She actually thought he was joking.  The joke continued, literally, for years.  If I have the time frame right, about fifteen years.  All during the joke, she was pretty much vanilla.  He wasn't.  When she realized it wasn't a joke, he was given permission to play with others, to an extent.   The situation turned out rather well for him.  I even hear he was fortunate enough to find a Domme who is smart enough not to puff Herself up with Her own ego when responding to these types of threads.




< Message edited by LadyPact -- 12/16/2007 7:51:18 PM >

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to carlie310)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 10:54:56 AM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Do what most married subs do.  Find a pro Domme, don't have intercourse, and justify to yourself that you're not cheating.  Your marriage will end if the Missus finds out but you'll probably think you're too clever to get caught anyway.

Your other option, the preferable option, would be to beg her to do things to you, for you, and then give her time to process the idea.  She'll have to go through the kneejerk repulsed reaction first, then she'll go through the period of time when she flames you and lashes out that you're a pervert.  Accept the criticism because, dear little man, you ARE a pervert.  You're perverted, thinking perverted thoughts about doing perverted things.

Once she has a chance to come to terms with the fact that you want to be perverted within your marriage rather than outside of it, and once you have a chance to come to terms with the fact that you are in fact a perverted nasty man with perverted nasty longings, I'd suggest asking her to read a very gentle little book with you called

Welts, Female Domination in An American Marriage
by Gloria and Dave Wallace
 
It's a very gentle read, even for the deeply repulsed. 

Ask her to read it, and consider it for two days before she comments on it.

Schedule an alone time meeting between the two of you where you can sit down and discuss the chapters, and beg her to do something very vanilla: such as permit you to bathe her head to toe in a warm bubble bath that you draw for her, dry her with towels you warm in the dryer, and permit you to sleep at her feet, on top of the covers, for one night. 

Discuss her feelings the next day, and for days afterwards.  The chances of her divorcing you because you read this book together are slim.  If she rejects the idea entirely, you'll have to promise to set it aside and let it go, and it will take her a lot of time to get past it.  Accept that and give her the time she needs. 

If she doesn't reject the idea out of hand, then discuss some things you long for, but don't hit her with the hard core stuff first, silly, ease into it with a vanilla approach!

Talk a lot, play a little, talk a lot, play a little.  That's the way to introduce someone to an alternative lifestyle, baby steps.

You risk her saying 'ewww NEVER' but then what have you lost?  A little pride maybe?  Well worth it if she likes the pampering and agrees to tie you up with a scarf or two and start the ball rolling.

If you receive the ultimate rejection, then you just have to be man enough to apologize for squicking her sensitivities, and then you have to choose whether to live a virtual subbie life online or whether to abandon your desires altogether in favor of saving your marriage.

Good luck and let us know what happens, won't you?

TexasMaam

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 12/17/2007 11:00:46 AM >

_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to fan2sighz)
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RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 11:04:41 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav

A wife that truly loves you and cares about you will conform (or at least try to ) to your wishes.  Life is way too fucking short.
If YOU don't make yourself happy, no one will.  Fuck the kids, divorce her and move on.

~Pav



A. Obviously you have no kids. What a callous comment.
B. The wife could very much love her husband and care about him, but it is not her responsibility to adapt to his wishes, especially if she was unaware of his desires/needs before they got married.

I am so tired of people saying that the wife is at fault here; she did not sign up for this. It is his fault that he was not honest with her BEFORE.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 12/17/2007 11:06:48 AM >

(in reply to MistressPav)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 11:06:09 AM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry,  'Mother', but that advice is HorseHockey.
There are other alternatives, such as seriously asking the Missus to learn something about BDSM, and seriously working through her initial Pavlovian 'oooh you're so perverted' response.  I've known, and trained, more than one couple in BDSM to save their marriage.  It can be done, if she truly loves him.
Give the guy a break.
TM

quote:

ORIGINAL: MotherEve

The obvious, he should be faithful to his wife.  If he cannot live happily with his committment to her, get a divorce, then come on Collarme.   How many chimps does it take to change a light bulb?


_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 11:15:03 AM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		It's not his 'fault', either. It's nobody's fault.  It's just a case of one fellow's longings getting the best of him.  It happens to every man at some point, for some men it's another woman, for some it's porn, for some it's the girl in the office, for other's it's sexual fantasies that he obcesses over until he makes them a reality.

He's a man.  Men think about sex every three minutes.  He's hardwired to fantacize and daydream about sex.

She has the right to live an insulated lifestyle and believe she's Cinderella but she risks losing him by being so naieve.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee, girls. 

If you love a man, his deepest needs and desires are ABSOLUTELY you're responsibility.  Yes he has a responsibility for her desires, too. 

It's in the discovery and care of the middle ground between them that forever relationships grow.

TM

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 12/17/2007 11:18:46 AM >

_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 11:17:26 AM   
Siona


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, that's a little hard to accept.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav

Fuck the kids




My thoughts exactly, LAM

< Message edited by Siona -- 12/17/2007 11:23:42 AM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 11:21:28 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

It's not his 'fault', either. It's nobody's fault.  It's just a case of one fellow's longings getting the best of him.  It happens to every man at some point, for some men it's another woman, for some it's porn, for some it's the girl in the office, for other's it's sexual fantasies that he obcesses over until he makes them a reality.

He's a man.  Men think about sex every three minutes.  He's hardwired to fantacize and daydream about sex.

She has the right to live an insulated lifestyle and believe she's Cinderella but she risks losing him by being so naieve.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee, girls. 

If you love a man, his deepest needs and desires are ABSOLUTELY you're responsibility.  Yes he has a responsibility for her desires, too. 

It's in the discovery and care of the middle ground between them that forever relationships grow.

TM


That is line I agree with except for one; there is no blame on one party more than the other, but I have heard of so many of these situations and they never end well. I personally had to leave a marriage where my husband just did not fulfill my BDSM needs and he was madly in love with me. We went to couples therapy for a year and we both knew about our desires before we married. He loved me to death but he was not wired the way I needed and vice versa; shit happens to even the best people. You move on or stay frustrated or cheat and we did not want to cheat.

And the one thing I disagree with is your wording of FOREVER relationships. Nothing is forever except death and taxes. Only in fairy tales does love prevail over life.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 12/17/2007 11:23:11 AM >

(in reply to TexasMaam)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 11:21:36 AM   
subheart07


Posts: 12
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: offline 		my ex knew about my intrerst way before we wed. she never took anything serious. we were married so she did not have to empress me anymore.

(in reply to TexasMaam)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 11:30:19 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		So I've seen a fwe comments herer that I enjoyed greatly. Kal's advice is prolly the best in my opinion here. Service..submission goes so much beyond "play." It goes to doing something FOR her...not solly based on her needs but your need to "submit" and to "meet her needs" and "see her happy." (PS I did spend all day yesterday clearing the snow...and this morning making sure the vehicle was almost spot clean of the flakes...I'm just a lil boi who is working hard to live up to Kal's standards lol)

If you were "born" with an eed to serve you'd have known it by the time you got married. And yes before you tie the knot (pun intended) you need to discuss these types of things. Lady H. was right...this aint the 1960's sex...any kind of sex is pretty much no longer taboo. And yes sex is part of the entire compatability issue. BDSM IS about sex...trust me...it is. Anybody who says it's not is full of shit. We get off...just not in your traditional manner.

Marriage is about compromise. She doesn't want kinky sex. You do. there's room in between...a woman on top of a male is putting the male in a "submissive" position. If she talks dirty scratches or bites during sex you're half way there. And if these are things she's good with doing then accept it or move on. Cheating isn't all that much fun. Lieing left and right and not being able to fully enjoy what you're doing because you have to cover it up. That sucks.

What this comes down to is "do you...." do what you feel RIGHT doing...and generally most people don't feel "right" cheating. The reason is becuase they have their own moral codes that dictate cheating isn't right and the minute they see their SO they start to feel guilt or shame and react cold or angry. Get real. Let your balls drop and deal with this head on.

(in reply to Siona)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 12:01:02 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Lady Hibiscus totally nailed this one.  I just don't see much submitting going on here.  Sounds more like the CollarMe version of buying a sports car because of a midlife crisis.

What's in it for your wife?  If she thinks she'll just end up with tennis elbow from whacking your butt, or doesn't see the point behind getting her toes all slobbered on, well, ewwwww, can you blame her?

You are thinking about this wrong.  Examples of resetting priorities might include:
Lock your dick up, give her the key, and ask her not to let you have a single orgasm until she's had ten.  Then make sure she has them.
Set one day a week where she sees you put on a pair of panties under your manly vanilla clothes.  Then you do ALL the household chores, all the "women's work" while she can just relax.

If she sees that male submission means "putting Her pleasure first"  -- both sexual and nonsexual -- she might be more open to the concept... instead of it meaning "putting his pleasure first yet again."

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 60
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