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RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 12:09:37 PM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Jen, you may be better than me.  I cleared Ms. Mlicious' car yesterday, but I lent her my truck when I realized how bad the weather was.  But this morning, I did not go down and clear her car again.  She actually cleared it off herself.  Felt a bit guilty about that.  By the time I realized, she was half done, so I just let her finish.  I am no good.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 1:20:06 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Face it, slavekal, Jen is better---she's a GRRRRL! <G>

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 1:57:39 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Cheating isn't all that much fun. Lieing left and right and not being able to fully enjoy what you're doing because you have to cover it up. That sucks.



I agree completely.  I don't know any affairs that had "happy endings".  You really are choosing between a rock (guilt, shame, remorse) and a hard place (unfulfilled sexual longings)

I was warned (by a married cheater) that cheating was a "slippery slope you can never  climb back up"

Of course I didn't understand him and ignored his ominous warning

If you could fix the marriage, that would be wonderful.  It seems from the above that some people can....and some can't

Seeing a pro-domme (no intercourse) has one advantage.  So far, this has all been fantasy for you, right?  Lots of men have kinky fantasies and eventually sneak off to a pro-domme and leave -$300 lighter - thinking "is that it?   What is the big deal?"   Reality can shatter the hottest of  fantasies. Curiosity is satisfied. 

And you did not need to squick your wife or make her feel insecure or inadequate.  You can leave your vanilla romance alone and try harder to be a good husband (with - like most humans - plenty of filthy ideas in your head).

Just a thought.  The grass really is NOT greener on the other side, unless you are a hard wired sado-masochist or fetishist who cannot get off without BDSM.  Then you have a problem.......that should have shown up long before you married your unsuspecting wife, right?

Accept that - like most men - you find BDSM erotica really, really hot, but you don't actually need or want to serve some demanding Queen 24/7 to be happy.  If you did, your wife would be delighted (as many point out, above!)

Good luck





< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 12/17/2007 2:22:02 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 5:02:19 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		I'ma boi...what can I say? :) Kal...you'll have amessage soon from MsK's account. Happy holidays all...have fun play hard!

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 5:11:35 PM   
LadyChef


Posts: 105
Joined: 11/11/2007
Status: offline 		This is a hard one. Marriage is very complex, but as people mature, the relationship can change. Counselling can work, if it gets to that point.

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You reap what you sow

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 6:54:36 PM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		I still say that wifey may turn out to be more Mistress than this guy can imagine.  If the whole thing is approached in the right way.  Make it fun and enjoyable and beneficial for her.  You may be surprised.

(in reply to LadyChef)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 7:12:30 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Only if the OP is not Mr Fetish Guy.  Was it in this thread that someone mentioned that doing stuff isn't fun if you're not ordered to?  (a paraphrase).  I understand that viewpoint, but it is not the kind of view that makes a femdom happy.  I can't imagine how little it would do for a potential dominant!

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RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 7:34:35 PM   
CdnExplorer


Posts: 227
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline 		I mentioned something about requiring the exercise of authority in order for doting on someone to create fulfillment in a submissive sense, but that's different from orders or micromanagement. Without someone expecting something of you, what are you really submitting to?

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 9:04:29 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I posted my thoughts on this elsewhere.

Renting it as food for thought can only help. If you do rent it, try to imagine the heroine converting her husband into a "sub." How feasible do you see that project?

My Mistress thought the heroine's confession to her husband was very realistically portrayed. Whether or not she should have told him is another question.

Although LaM rightfully sees a marital hell from his vantage point, I think marriage improves dramatically when the marrieds expect less out of it.

In my marriage, we've been test driving an extra-marital freedom pact --- and although it may be troublesome at times, it sure does make me feel more alive.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/17/2007 9:20:10 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 9:12:57 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

It's not his 'fault', either. It's nobody's fault. It's just a case of one fellow's longings getting the best of him. It happens to every man at some point, for some men it's another woman, for some it's porn, for some it's the girl in the office, for other's it's sexual fantasies that he obcesses over until he makes them a reality.

He's a man. Men think about sex every three minutes. He's hardwired to fantacize and daydream about sex.

She has the right to live an insulated lifestyle and believe she's Cinderella but she risks losing him by being so naieve.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee, girls.

If you love a man, his deepest needs and desires are ABSOLUTELY you're responsibility. Yes he has a responsibility for her desires, too.

It's in the discovery and care of the middle ground between them that forever relationships grow.


You are dead-on correct.

"You can have strict monogamy or you can have a low libido, ladies, but you can't have both."

--Dan Savage

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/17/2007 9:13:11 PM >

(in reply to TexasMaam)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/17/2007 9:18:12 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

It's not his 'fault', either. It's nobody's fault.  It's just a case of one fellow's longings getting the best of him.  It happens to every man at some point, for some men it's another woman, for some it's porn, for some it's the girl in the office, for other's it's sexual fantasies that he obcesses over until he makes them a reality.

He's a man.  Men think about sex every three minutes.  He's hardwired to fantacize and daydream about sex.

She has the right to live an insulated lifestyle and believe she's Cinderella but she risks losing him by being so naieve.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee, girls. 

If you love a man, his deepest needs and desires are ABSOLUTELY you're responsibility.  Yes he has a responsibility for her desires, too. 

It's in the discovery and care of the middle ground between them that forever relationships grow.

TM


I actually agree that she needs to at least to attempt to address his needs.  I agree that sex is very important for many PEOPLE and you have to address that issue when you are with one of those people and to refuse to address it is inviting havoc into your relationship.  However, one either has sexual interests in some things or doesn't.  You can't make someone want bdsm any more than you can make someone gay and it's not insensitive to say I cannot go there for you because it's not who I am.

I find it odd that men thinking about sex all the time is brought up so often.  There are many women over 35 that probably think about it more, yet we don't see alot of posts saying men need to step it up to address their increased sex drive do we?

I agree he needs to attempt to communicate this desire with her and have told him such, however, the simple reality is he married a vanilla woman and the odds of her having that interest aren't all that great.  The point many seem to be missing is that the odds of him enjoying someone doing it only for him when it's not enjoyable to her aren't all that great.  The reality is he will most likely end up in the situation where he has to chose this interest or his marriage.  As sad as that may be, it is often the case.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 12/17/2007 9:21:03 PM >

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When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/18/2007 6:02:43 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

The point many seem to be missing is that the odds of him enjoying someone doing it only for him when it's not enjoyable to her aren't all that great.


Its also a knee-jerk prescriptive solution peddled by those with a strict monogamist mindset. Rather than admit the limitations of monogamy, this crowd likes to import idealistic flexibility into it.

The core driver in this OP's scenario and all other like scenarios is the dividing line between those who believe and want to find everything in one person and those who believe "the one" is a false romantic idol.

Ironically, the people seeking "the one" who believe in strict monogamy tend to be divorced, serial monogamists, or single. The mindset to impart the whole pineapple of romantic, economic, and family responsibility onto one person, forever --- actually isn't too suited to the reality of LTRs.


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/18/2007 7:53:51 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Is your marriage otherwise good? Do you love each other, try to please each other, enjoy each other's company, have quality sex?

Because if the marriage is bad, then you will find yourself being attracted and getting emotionally involved with anyone else you start a relationship with, even if this is an online relationship exclusively.

If you are emotionally satisfied with your wife but just need an itch scratched, then a prodomme is your best bet. There's no sex involved, she won't want to get emotionally involved with you, and the focus is just on play Assuming that you can afford to do this.

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RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/18/2007 8:48:05 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I actually agree that she needs to at least to attempt to address his needs.  I agree that sex is very important for many PEOPLE and you have to address that issue when you are with one of those people and to refuse to address it is inviting havoc into your relationship.  However, one either has sexual interests in some things or doesn't.  You can't make someone want bdsm any more than you can make someone gay and it's not insensitive to say I cannot go there for you because it's not who I am.

I find it odd that men thinking about sex all the time is brought up so often.  There are many women over 35 that probably think about it more, yet we don't see alot of posts saying men need to step it up to address their increased sex drive do we?

I agree he needs to attempt to communicate this desire with her and have told him such, however, the simple reality is he married a vanilla woman and the odds of her having that interest aren't all that great.  The point many seem to be missing is that the odds of him enjoying someone doing it only for him when it's not enjoyable to her aren't all that great.  The reality is he will most likely end up in the situation where he has to chose this interest or his marriage.  As sad as that may be, it is often the case.


I agree with this part I highlighted in the first paragraph.  The hypothetical makes for a wonderful point.  If hubby were to be gay, rather than BDSM oriented, nobody would be suggesting that the wife "try to fulfill his desires".  She didn't sign up for that in her marriage when she took her vows.  It's a bit more extreme, but it's very similar to BDSM.

Turn the thing around from a different angle.  For those in functioning relationships that have BDSM involved.  What if your partner came home one day and said they were done?  They were no longer interested in wiitwd and wanted nothing more to do with it.  Another thought.  What if you're in a monogomous relationship and your partner decided that they wanted poly?  There are a lot of people out there who wouldn't be willing to give that situation a whirl before knowing absolutely that it's not for them. 

I'm not saying that, once the initial shock is over for the wife, that this might not be a workable situation.  The OP was only a two or three line post and that may have just been her first knee jerk reaction.  We all know some of the outrageous things some 'nillas think of when they hear BDSM.  She might be in that catagory.

I do wish the OP the best of luck.  There's been some good advice in this thread that can be applied.


_____________________________

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/18/2007 10:17:34 AM   
HelenaTroy


Posts: 93
Joined: 8/20/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not the biggest proponent of open and honest. I'm not a liar, but I don't give out unnecessary information. People always act so noble when they talk about being honest, as though telling the whole truth makes them a better person. Sometimes *not* telling the truth is the most noble thing. Would you be open and honest by telling your spouse that you get grossed out by some hairy mole they have? You might be better off suggesting they shave it or that it might be cancerous and they should see a dermatologist rather than telling them that you'll barf if they don't get that hideous thing removed.

Faithfulness is in the heart. If he needs to submit, he should go see a pro on his lunch break or something. What the wife doesn't know won't hurt her, unless he's being unsafe and putting her at risk for some sort of STD or disease. Especially since it will make him ultimately happier, resent the uptight wife a lot less, and it could in fact improve both of their happiness in general in their relationship. No relationship is perfect and if this is a deep need that he has that she can't or won't fulfill AND she thinks it's perverted, maybe she wouldn't want to know anyway. It could permanently change her opinion of him and damage the relationship. What if they have children and it's not the most responsible idea for them to split up because of this? It just wouldn't be productive to be open and honest and tell her. If she'd react badly, maybe she doesn't need to know.

It also bothers me when someone had a one-night stand in a moment of weakness in the past and then feels the sudden need to be open and honest about it with their significant other - even though the act happened so long ago that it wouldn't effect either person in the relationship. In my opinion, when people tell all, it's because they intentionally want to hurt the other person by telling them what they did, and they mask it in a *good guy badge* of honesty. It's mean and hurtful and selfish. And the other person would have been better off not knowing.

Helena

P.S. I am not advocating cheating on one's spouse or partner, but merely avoiding saying things masked in noble honesty that will ultimately damage the relationship.

< Message edited by HelenaTroy -- 12/18/2007 10:29:16 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/18/2007 5:08:46 PM   
Dolce


Posts: 34
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		What are her kinks/fantasies? Perhaps you could present her with a chance to play out some of her own kinks..but go easy on the pressuring for your own. After she's had a chance to explore her own sexuality, she might be a little more open to the kinkiness.

Have you thought about making a sex game out of this? Have her write 10 of her bedroom/secret wishes and put them in a jar, and you do the same. Make a dice with his or hers on the side, and make a random roll. Whoever gets pulled up in the roll has a wish pulled...and let's just say that you give them 3 days to carry out the wish.

Now, here's the catch...start with the utmost mild of your kinks...because she might be more likely to respond to things that aren't /too/ far from the beaten path. Maybe some things like...
* I want you to be on top and please yourself.
* I want you to order me to fuck you, whenever you want it and wherever you want it, as long as it isn't the bedroom.
* I want you to bite my (ear/lip/chin/chest) when we cuddle/have sex
* I want /you/ to tell me how you want to be pleased.
* I want you to order me to give you a foot massage, no matter how busy I am.
* I want you to smack me on the rear. Hard. In a public place.
* I want you to blindfold me, and tease me any way you like.
* I want to give you a night of orgasms and pleasure, but I don't want to come at all.

Now...here's the trick...start telling her how much you enjoyed fulfilling HER kinks...and start doing them at random times, regardless of whether they were drawn from her jar or not. The point is to get into her brain and figure out how to /serve/ her first...and, in all likelihood, if you can get into her brain and start fulfilling /her/ kink, she might be so inclined to fulfill your own.

It's all in the psychology of it. Getting her to be a domme may be a LONG way down the road...but I would venture to say that slowly (and discretely, since she seems to have a bit of a kinkphobia) converting her to a decently kinky woman is FAR better than giving up a marriage. Frankly, the more you push the blatantly kinkiness, the more it's going to turn off the potential kink in her...so be sneaky about it, and make it fun!


_____________________________

The presence of a noble nature...changes the lights for us: we begin to see things again in their larger, quieter masses, and to believe that we too can be seen and judged in the wholeness of our character. ~George Eliot

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/18/2007 5:38:46 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I actually agree that she needs to at least to attempt to address his needs.  I agree that sex is very important for many PEOPLE and you have to address that issue when you are with one of those people and to refuse to address it is inviting havoc into your relationship.  However, one either has sexual interests in some things or doesn't.  You can't make someone want bdsm any more than you can make someone gay and it's not insensitive to say I cannot go there for you because it's not who I am.

I find it odd that men thinking about sex all the time is brought up so often.  There are many women over 35 that probably think about it more, yet we don't see alot of posts saying men need to step it up to address their increased sex drive do we?

I agree he needs to attempt to communicate this desire with her and have told him such, however, the simple reality is he married a vanilla woman and the odds of her having that interest aren't all that great.  The point many seem to be missing is that the odds of him enjoying someone doing it only for him when it's not enjoyable to her aren't all that great.  The reality is he will most likely end up in the situation where he has to chose this interest or his marriage.  As sad as that may be, it is often the case.


I agree with this part I highlighted in the first paragraph.  The hypothetical makes for a wonderful point.  If hubby were to be gay, rather than BDSM oriented, nobody would be suggesting that the wife "try to fulfill his desires".  She didn't sign up for that in her marriage when she took her vows.  It's a bit more extreme, but it's very similar to BDSM.

Turn the thing around from a different angle.  For those in functioning relationships that have BDSM involved.  What if your partner came home one day and said they were done?  They were no longer interested in wiitwd and wanted nothing more to do with it.  Another thought.  What if you're in a monogomous relationship and your partner decided that they wanted poly?  There are a lot of people out there who wouldn't be willing to give that situation a whirl before knowing absolutely that it's not for them. 

I'm not saying that, once the initial shock is over for the wife, that this might not be a workable situation.  The OP was only a two or three line post and that may have just been her first knee jerk reaction.  We all know some of the outrageous things some 'nillas think of when they hear BDSM.  She might be in that catagory.

I do wish the OP the best of luck.  There's been some good advice in this thread that can be applied.



I do agree they should try.  I also absolutely agree that the grass is not greener on the other side and leaving a solid marriage over the illusion of kinky sex dynamics that may never come about may be a mistake.  I completely disagree with other posts suggesting being sneaky or anything other and open and honest about trying with her.

Oddly, I asked my partner this same question a few weeks ago about ending kink in our relationship and I think the true answer is that yes, for people whom sex is important to, lack of good sex in any relationship is very difficult to deal with.  Good sex is generally that which is equally enjoyable.  Having someone do things they don't really want to do and don't enjoy merely for the sake of their partner (outside of it being something you do as service type things in a dynamic) over time will most likely end up being an unenjoyable situation.

However, I realized as I asked the question that whatever his answer ended up being didn't mean much because I wouldn't really expect someone to hang around with me because of my qualities as a person if the sex was bad for them and it would make me unhappy if they did.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 12/18/2007 5:42:02 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/18/2007 7:05:06 PM   
fan2sighz


Posts: 2
Joined: 8/15/2005
Status: offline 		I'd like to thank the many people who have taken the time to provide such thoughtful and considerate replies. And I'm glad my post has generated some interest. A few points I'd like to make:
1. Not everyone is as self-aware at a relatively young age
2. Life is about change and self-discovery
3. There are many things one may wish to explore in the course of one's life; some are possible, some aren't, and some lie somewhere in between. My desire to explore my submissive side is not so overwhelming that I'd compromise an otherwise happy and fulfilling life. But as the wise Greek said, "the unexamined life is not worth living." Trying to reconcile the two isn't easy; I appreciate the advice and good wishes.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/18/2007 7:26:48 PM   
YesMistressIrish


Posts: 1135
Joined: 5/1/2007
From: Calif
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

quote:

Is there a way to pursue my fantasies while maintaining my marriage?


Yes...but it takes a lot of hard work and an incredibly understanding partner for it to happen. 

You say she find's the idea unacceptably perverse ... well bully for her ... time she got over herself and her hang ups.  

Talk to her again ... ask her how she would feel about your seeing someone professionally ie: having a paid session with a pro dom .. or finding someone local who accepts married submissives.  Though I would say the latter generally has the potential to become complicated UNLESS the dom in question has no desire for anything beyond seeing you on a casual basis, ergo doesn't put demands on you or your marriage.

Give her some power here ... tell her these needs aren't going away ... but that she gets to set the limits ... allowing her to put some boundaries in place and STICK TO THEM ... eg no sex, or no sexual contact ... no marks ... never on Sundays ... whatever it is that will help her feel comfortable with the notion of you exploring this outside your four walls. 

Don't expect it to happen overnight .. and DON'T whatever you do pressure or bully her into making it happen faster than she is comfortable with.

Don't throw it in her face either ...  

Start with one session ... that sometime in the next three months you can visit with a dom ... your wife doesn't need to be bored or horrified with the details ... but that at some stage over the next three months (from the time you have her agreement) you will see someone ...

Whatever you do DON'T break her trust ... if she agrees to one session in three months ... don't be an arse and have five... or be and arse and whine and whinge and pressure her into agreeing you can have more ...

Baby steps ... respect her at all times.



*waving hi to Jasmyn*

(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: What's a married man to do? - 12/19/2007 6:49:13 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		It's also not your wife's fault you weren't self aware enough to state your desires at an early age.

More and more when I see these posts they seem like a midlife crisis situation. And it just irritates the hell out of me. If you aren't satisfied learn how to use the search tool so that you don't waste discussion space or energy. I don't think I'm the only one who feels like a broken record at this rate...or that we've seen the same damned question at least once every three days.

Go out and get a car...go out and see a Pro...they tend to be less threatening to everything except the wallet...cuz a good level headed Pro isn't going to have sex with you. Do something...don't bitch about how unfulfilling your marriage is because you're finally being open enough with yourself to know what it is you truely want.

Yeah I'm one of those that believes it's compltely unfair to the SO, partner, spouse, that flung new and drastic changes because the other person in their relationship doesn't really have their shit together. Mid-life crisies piss me off.

(in reply to YesMistressIrish)
Profile   Post #: 80
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