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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 12/28/2007 1:02:17 PM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy


Okay, that's understandable.  And, i'm sure that there are many other private groups in existence that are very exclusive and offer training in BDSM.  In fact, there are probably many more small, private groups out there that have no website at all.  People can form whatever private group they choose. 
 
But, i still don't see why any of these groups or the, so called, "Ancient Houses" should be given any more credibility than any other group or why they should be considered some sort of "standard bearer" of what is and isn't BDSM, just because they are private and exclusive and kept behind a 'veil of concealment' by only disclosing partial information about themselves. 

 
We agree on this 100%. I'm not disputing the credibility (or lack thereof), I'm just saying they do exist and 500 years from now (if they still exist) I just wondered if jades article would be viewed in the same light. I was not saying it was a good thing or a bad thing.. it's just not 'my' thing. Master and I were asked to help found Athenor when it first started. We declined but that's why I do have some personal knowledge about it.
 
quote:

Some people might need that sort of thing to give them some basis of "authenticity" or sense of "authority" on what should and shouldn't be done in their BDSM activities or how they should be doing them.  Some people don't need that.  Some people prefer to be individualists and to decide for themselves what they should and shouldn't do in their personal BDSM activities.
 
Again, we do agree.

 
quote:

i just really hope that those who are new to BDSM aren't made to feel that they must learn and follow the ways of one of these groups or 'houses of training' in order to be seen as 'authentic' in the eyes of fellow BDSMers and that they can choose to make their own path in their personal BDSM journey. 

 
To my mind, it will be even better if people realize they don't have to worry about authenticity or being seen as such to anyone but their partner.

 

quote:

i stand corrected.  i try never to use the word 'never'.  i actually meant to say that "the information they present never seems to get discussed here." And, to be more exact, they never seem to get discussed here with such scrutiny as CastleRealm.
 
Well, that's what happens when you get 'big'. The more you are known, the more you are scrutinized. I doubt that many people care too much about the local dog catcher here, but they sure do go on and on about the Commander-in-Chief. Such is the way of the world.

 
quote:

i did just do a search of the term 'steel door' and i was given many pages of posts to look at.  i looked at several and found the anything with the word "steel", as in "steel buckle", and anything with the word "door", as in "closed door", came up.  Even in the posts where "steel-door" was found, they were either links to the website, itself, or just referencing the website to find additional information.  i found no in-depth discussions about "steel door" or about the information presented on that website.  Maybe, i'm just not very good at doing searches on here and someone else can find the sort of discussions on "steel door" like there are about CastleRealm.  If so, i would be interested in reading them.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David


I didn't go back and do a search, but just from memory on some various topics which have been brought to these boards from other websites:

9 Levels of Submission
128 Rules of Slavery
Figging: The Art of Ginger Root Play
The BDSM Checklist
BDSM Contracts
The Slave Registry

Not to mention the numerable posts when someone comes in and say "I saw _____" on a ________ website.. is it true?"

If there is a particular article on Steel-Door, Frugal Domme, WizDomme or some other website that would be of interest to you to discuss, I don't see a problem with posting an exerpt and a link and see if others are equally interested in the discussion. Threads which hold no interest to others tend to die a quick death.

I think I've highjacked my own thread enough here, but would have no problem discussing another article from any source on the boards if others have the interest as well.

Celeste




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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 12/28/2007 1:22:10 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		CR was like a doughtnut made with whole wheat. You can't argue about some of the backbone being good for you. Point out that hydrogenated oils and corn syrup will eventually kill you and everyone would rather shout you down as a wet blanket than eat clean decent food.


Part of me is MORE annoyed with people impressed by stories born of other people's obvious flights of fancy (200 year old woo woo magic) than people who feel the need to lie and build themselves up.


< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 12/28/2007 1:23:31 PM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 12/28/2007 2:24:49 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		You're right, Celeste. Other sites have been discussed and criticized here.  Thanks for refreshing my memory.  i guess it's been awhile since the last time i saw such a thread but, now that you mention it, i recall how much TSR has been scrutinized and criticized here, also.  And, of course, there are the pretty regular threads started by someone mentioning that they read something on any of the various BDSM websites out there and they want to discuss it here.  It just seems to me like the CastleRealm name gets tossed around a lot more than any of the others.  And, i just don't understand why that particular site is so popular or well known or referenced so much.  Is it because it has been around longer than the others or is there some other reason?
 
It's not that i don't think it's good to read the different perspectives that these various websites offer or to have discussions about what information is being posted on these different sites.  It's just that, it amazes me that there seems to be so much weight given to what any one of these websites has to say, when, after all, what they state is subjective and simply expressing the particular point of view and ideology of that website's author.  i don't think any one of them is more of an authority on BDSM than any other or, all of them put together.
 
Also, i can't help but wonder why there seems to be such a need to find some source of "authority" or "set standards" or "regulation" or, even "inspiration" about what BDSM is and how it 'should be done', etc.  After all, is there the same need to find such groups or 'houses of training' for other aspects of personal relationships, such as, dating, marriage, or, sex, for example?  If there is, i haven't see it.  Why is this the case, then, with BDSM?  Just wondering.......there may not be an answer to that question.
 
Was this going too far away from your OP?  i hope not.  If so, i apologize.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 12/28/2007 3:11:31 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy
 
Also, i can't help but wonder why there seems to be such a need to find some source of "authority" or "set standards" or "regulation" or, even "inspiration" about what BDSM is and how it 'should be done', etc.  After all, is there the same need to find such groups or 'houses of training' for other aspects of personal relationships, such as, dating, marriage, or, sex, for example?  If there is, i haven't see it.  Why is this the case, then, with BDSM?  Just wondering.......there may not be an answer to that question.
 
Was this going too far away from your OP?  i hope not.  If so, i apologize.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David


It may not seem like it, but there are workshops, retreats, books etc. aimed at vanilla people too...Of course, nothing quite as mystical and grand (LOL* cough*LOL) as ancient houses, but still there are relationship gurus etc that will host vanilla couples for retreats and stuff...(it just may be so far off of your/my radar that you don't think about it, but thanks to shows like "Real Sex" and the like those types of things have been made known to the public)

i think it is some "different thing" (trying not to sound judgemental) that some people seem to be drawn to....As has been mentioned, Free Masons had their thing....big colleges have their secret societies (ala Skulls et al)...

What i see from it is (some) people want to have a history, it lends creedence to WIIWD..if it goes waaaay back before your grandfather's, grandfather's grandfathers pet saber tooth tiger cat then it makes it some how more acceptable and justifiable.

Some people want to feel they belong to something, and if it's secret then it might give them a feeling of empowerment because they are one of the "elite" who is in on the secret.

This isn't necessarily my own feeling on the concept...i mean yeah, it might be cool if there were such a thing, if there was now too, whatever....but other than it being a cool concept i don't feel a whole lot for it in terms of my own life...

To each his/her own though.


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cherry

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 12/28/2007 5:35:00 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		Very true, cherry.  Good point.  i forgot about all the retreats and seminars and self-help books, etc. for vanilla relationships.  Like you said, since i'm not spending time on any dating or marriage or vanilla sex sites, i don't see or hear about the groups geared toward those interests. 
 
i forgot about the fact that there is a huge industry built around people seeking advice on "how to find a mate" and "how to have a happier marriage" and "how to improve your sex life", so why not "how to have better BDSM", too? 
 
But, also, like you said, those groups don't seem to have this aire of mystery surrounding them, like some of the BDSM ones do.  i guess, since dating and marriage and sex have been widely known about and accepted throughout history, there's no need for people to try to trace or stake a claim to the origin of those interests, as there seems to be concerning the origins of BDSM.
 
Thanks for pointing this out.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 3:28:01 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		why is it so hard to believe something like this may exist without all your worldliness knowing about it?

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 3:31:56 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65

why is it so hard to believe something like this may exist without all your worldliness knowing about it?


I bet you'd ask the same question in a thread about the Easter Bunny.


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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 3:34:38 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
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Status: offline 		your narrow mind will keep many things hidden from you

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 3:43:29 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65

why is it so hard to believe something like this may exist without all your worldliness knowing about it?


As a historian I'd say that believing in something without direct evidence is faith, not knowledge and certainly not worthy of any claim of historicity.

That's ok as long as it is a matter of faith (and religion or philosophy if you prefer those terms) and not used to make historical claims or claims that one follows X house therefore one is more real or more whatever.

It's not a matter of kinky history either, many groups are mysteries, often on purpose such as a mystery cult whose history, rituals, and practices should only be known to the initiated and no one else. As soon as someone claims to be in such a group either they are lying or they've just pissed off the entire group and probably sacrificed their salvation, membership, whatever they were supposed to have received upon initiation.

Thus secret European houses of kink should either be a secret and we won't hear about them unless we are individual initiated or there should be hard evidence for them.

Just one historian's strong opinion.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 1/1/2008 3:46:25 PM >

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 3:43:39 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		For one thing, this sort of "secret society" would have great tabloid sales potential. Do you really think that at some point, photos, video and other evidence of such a society couldn't have leaked out by now? Hell the government wanted to keep the fact that they are torturing people they've kidnapped off the street and flown to overseas black prisons a secret... but failed miserably.

In this day and age of internet, you tube, 24/7/365 CCTV survailance, retinal scanning of entire sports of arenas for identification... don't you think there'd be something more definite to go on than just vauge, "friend of a friend said that he'd read somewhere in a book that he can't find now..."-type hearsay?

Get a grip!

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 4:11:47 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		wow i never knew i had my retina scanned.

nice to know you have seen it all and have no doubt something cannot exist without your knowledge of it.

do you know where satanists have secret meetings and ceremonies too then? or is that just another hoax?

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 4:21:48 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		is it that farfetched that there may actually be a place for slaves to be trained, or labor camps? i know for a fact there is a place in cleveland ohio that my neighbor visits and pays good money for these sessions. i have seen the photos, and as mentioned in this thread, it took a sponsor to get him in there. but they will not be on youtube, because youtube will not accept that kind if video. and there still are some people who can actually keep a secret, believe it or not, and i am sure they do not want some busybody entereing thier secret society. i also know there are labor camps. 

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 4:26:04 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I'm sure there are people who keep this sort of thing quite secret. Probably because breeding *real* slaves for sale to well to do perverts is quite illegal. And so is the creation of  totally undocumented and disposable humans.

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 4:43:23 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65
why is it so hard to believe something like this may exist without all your worldliness knowing about it?


quote:

your narrow mind will keep many things hidden from you  


It is not wrong to doubt or to ask questions.  If the response to a search for factual information is deflected with vague mumbles about secrecy, that is not proof.  If something is true than it should stand up under scrutiny; if it doesn’t, then I believe it is healthy to raise a cynical eyebrow.

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 5:08:00 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I'm sure there are people who keep this sort of thing quite secret. Probably because breeding *real* slaves for sale to well to do perverts is quite illegal. And so is the creation of  totally undocumented and disposable humans.


This post reminded me of some American history

quote:

In the narratives of the white slavery scare, which peaked in the United States between 1910 and 1913, urban reformers intertwined the story of the sexually coerced maiden with a heated condemnation of the business of vice. Although the white slavery scare was an international panic, local reformers gave white slavery narratives local relevance by retelling the story in language particular to period and place. [1] Unlike the French, American reformers did not counterbalance tales of violently raped virgins with a defense of regulated prostitution. Americans were trying to shut down, not keep open, tolerated brothels. [2] Nor did they follow British author W.T. Stead's lead and critique aristocratic privilege using the ambiguous classical imagery of labyrinths and minotaurs. [3] Instead, Progressive-era reformers turned to the language of economics, particularly the corrupting power of trusts and their control of society, to frame their attack on urban vice. [4]
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2005/is_1_35/ai_79151292



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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 5:53:07 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		wow, out of context again, and again. not illegal slave training. voluntary slave training geeeeeezus. talk about get real

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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 5:57:06 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65

your narrow mind will keep many things hidden from you

Good! If they are things you've "discovered", I'm better off without 'em.


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RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 6:03:05 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65
wow, out of context again, and again. not illegal slave training. voluntary slave training geeeeeezus. talk about get real


~raises my cynical eyebrow~
How does one volunteer to become part of a super secret??


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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 6:16:00 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		maybe you should read befor you write.

i thought this was all consentual adult behavior, and i thought discussing illegal activity was not allowed on here.

my slaves are here voluntarily. and i believe that is what the OP is trying to suggest.

so quick to judge and ridicule others, but relunctant to look in the mirror huh?

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: CastleRealm2: Ancient Houses of Training - 1/1/2008 6:39:14 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I wonder if they have one of those decoder rings.. those were cool.
Kyst

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Profile   Post #: 120
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