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RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:25:51 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

I should note that all four cases were of self identified slaves and not simply submissives.


What were their ages?


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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:26:26 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		OMG...FOUR????
Well then, I take it back.  With that astronomical number then of course you're correct in your assumption.  And all along I thought you were only talking three.
Four makes all of the difference in the world.
I stand in awe of your scientific observations.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:29:32 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Many of the submissives I speak to seem to fall very short of their full potential

Really? And by who's 'bar of potential' are they falling short of? Yours?
quote:

  Two have the potential to get straight As all the time and have very high IQs (based on my questions about their standardized test scores) and yet they dropped out of college and do *nothing*.

Since we are BIG on clear definitions here; please give us your educated definition of 'NOTHING'.
quote:

  Another barely took any courses needed to get into college even though when I saw her HW assignments, I can see she is good at school.

Perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to why it would matter to you ?
quote:

  I myself do the same thing, but not as badly as some of the girls I speak to.

Tooting your own horn, I see now.
quote:

  Do submissive girls have a serious tendancy to avoid their full potential? Or is it just a coincidence that I speak to such people?

I think that YOU have a tendency to pick out people who YOU feel ARE LESS than you so that YOU  can come to the boards and expouse all your ideas about how other people don't live up to YOUR potential...

But hey...if it makes you feel like 'more' to do so, don't let us stop you.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:31:37 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline 		Ages 19, 24, 25 and 22- so yes, young, but most people I know are young and most people I know with 1500 SAT scores do not drop out of college. One dropped for the sake of relocating for a Master/slave relationship.

quote:

I stand in awe of your scientific observations.


Honestly, there is more love of ignorance in ignoring the possibility of a psychological tendancy to underachieve in connection with sexual submissiveness simply because you do not want to think of any negative association with submission in order to protect your own ego.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:33:40 PM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline 		kitttty,
you sure do have alot of problems with being a Domme!

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:34:50 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Since we are BIG on clear definitions here; please give us your educated definition of 'NOTHING'.


Nothing. One worked as a stripper and another as a cashier. I was unemployed entirely and my PhD friend lied in bed all day long. No world travelling or artistry, no taking care of kids- just plain nothing.

quote:

YOU can come to the boards and expouse all your ideas about how other people don't live up to YOUR potential...


Oh please. Dropping out of school and working some dead end minimum wage job that you dont even like is plain underacieving. This is not me being judgmental. If you disagree, well Im sorry to see that you have poor standards.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:36:37 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		So to you in your value system they are under achieving because they do not want to go to college as young women, but would rather strike out and try other things before committing themselves to college.

I do not find that to be "underachieving", I deem that as learning about life and what you want before taking on something because other people expect it of you. It is hard to stand up and make your own path by not doing what family and friends expect and going to school to please others...

An example of underachieving in my mind is to do the bare minimum to get by in life. It is going to college because someone else expects it and getting barely passing grades just to get by when you are capable of being in the top of the class...

Big difference in our views of what underachieving is


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:37:01 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty
Honestly, there is more love of ignorance in ignoring the possibility of a psychological tendancy to underachieve in connection with sexual submissiveness simply because you do not want to think of any negative association with submission in order to protect your own ego.



My ego's just fine.  I'm not the one who starts these wacky threads and comes across as being completely out of touch with reality.
But you go ahead and continue with your thoughts.  They're amusing.
I've learned that it's hard to have any kind of rational conversation with people who live on Mars.  Nanoo Nanoo.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:40:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Honestly, there is more love of ignorance in ignoring the possibility of a psychological tendancy to underachieve in connection with sexual submissiveness simply because you do not want to think of any negative association with submission in order to protect your own ego.



I intensely dislike people making claims about a group I identify with and making pseudo-intellectual claims based upon a handful of individuals that they personally know. You state these things like you are some sort of expert in the post I quoted, when in reality if you were really going to argue this from an intellectual standpoint you would have considered other factors these girls had in common... like their age.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:42:18 PM   
summerblossom


Posts: 145
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		I will admit that I have a low level of education and do to an emotional disability I do not work. On the other hand though, I make up for that with an amazing creative talent and ability. I am extremely skilled in most creative areas and more myself out into my drawings, poetry, writings, and other creative pursuits. I also tend to be more loyal than most, very honest, and am very compassionate to friends and animals. So while in some areas I have not acheived much, in other areas of personal growth I have acheived more than most people I know. I also have alot of self insight and awareness that most others would envy if they heard me speak in person, because I'm extremely verbal and can express myself very well.

So don't judge others by what they have acheived but by theirself as a whole.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:44:21 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I intensely dislike people making claims about a group I identify with and making pseudo-intellectual claims based upon a handful of individuals that they personally know.


I made no claim, nor would I ever make a claim as simplistic as "sexual submissiveness causes underachieving".

quote:

You state these things like you are some sort of expert in the post I quoted, when in reality if you were really going to argue this from an intellectual standpoint you would have considered other factors these girls had in common... like their age.


It is not their age. I know hundreds of people that age, none of which have underachieved to that degree. Not one person out of my class of 300 in HS was very booksmart and also did not complete college. Mind you, these are not people that could get good grades and did not, these are people that have actually for years at a time made 4.0s and actually like school.

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RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:45:24 PM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Nothing. One worked as a stripper and another as a cashier. I was unemployed entirely and my PhD friend lied in bed all day long. No world travelling or artistry, no taking care of kids- just plain nothing.

So what? So one is a stripper, one a cashier, and one wants to do nothing. BIG FUCKING DEAL! It's not your life is it? Unless of course, you are using words like they to hide the fact that you are actually discussing yourself.

quote:

  Oh please. Dropping out of school and working some dead end minimum wage job that you dont even like is plain underacieving. This is not me being judgmental. If you disagree, well Im sorry to see that you have poor standards.

No. I will not say its underachieving because I don't know these people and I am not aware of their reasons for doing what they do. Nor is it any of my business. What's more, I would not put myself on a pedastal by stating that they were wasting their lives by not living up to their potential. I accept people for who they are; I don't say to myself...they can do so much better, and then go out of my way to make sure that they know I think less of them because they are not up MY bar of potential.

As to my standards...honey, I accept people for exactly who they are. I don't categorize them...
well this one needs to be in college and since she is not....she gets less attention than the one who is working towards a PhD.
Pretty immature and selfish if you ask me.



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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:47:16 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		FR to th op

ok i quit high school in 9th grade, after having straight a's.....i did a lot of partying and had fun and all that, eventually growing up, doing my time in the army, loving my family, being a damn good human being, and managing to have a job i look forward to going to every day and it even keeps the bills paid. 

so because i didnt care to stay in school and go to college and all that, am i an underachiever?  the only thing i consider an important achievement in life is findig your own contentment.  some find it as a stripper or a waitress, some as a ceo or a teacher, some never find it at all.

so what you consider to be an underachiever may be one helluva content human being.....which is what id rather be any day of the week.

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in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

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RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:47:57 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

Many of the submissives I speak to seem to fall very short of their full potential. Two have the potential to get straight As all the time and have very high IQs (based on my questions about their standardized test scores) and yet they dropped out of college and do *nothing*. Another barely took any courses needed to get into college even though when I saw her HW assignments, I can see she is good at school.

I myself do the same thing, but not as badly as some of the girls I speak to.

Do submissive girls have a serious tendancy to avoid their full potential? Or is it just a coincidence that I speak to such people?

These girls are still young.


Well, when I take these few girls and juxtapose them with the hundreds of other members of my age bracket of 20-28 who are mostly likely sitting in a two bedroom apartment, minimally furnished with a couch, a chair, a TV, a Playstation, and the all too common contemporary decorations of trash and empty beer bottles, smoking a joint and talking about how they forget to enroll in college again before heading off to bed to sleep to 1pm....

I would have to say it's something not associated with a specific aspect of their personalities.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:53:09 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

t is not their age. I know hundreds of people that age, none of which have underachieved to that degree.

I went to college and sat next to some of the most underachieving people I have ever known.

I have worked dead end low wage jobs (have one now as a matter of fact, while I wait to go to grad school), and some of people were very ambitious, some were not. So just because someone works a low wage dead end job does not make them underachievers. It makes them temporarily working a low wage dead end job. I do not think one should define people by a temporary situation, but by their entire attitude in life. This statement shows your youth, and lack of experience in the world, and it makes me wonder how many people you have known in your life.


In your opinion I would have been considered an underachiever for years. I was achieving a lot. I raised a UM by myself, and did the best job I could at whatever I did for a living. I have always done the best I could, so just because someone takes a break from school does not mean they intend to take a break from life for the rest of their life...

Perhaps your master might see some benefit in having you work with average people to see what other human beings are really like. You sound as though you have no experience at all, and I say this in a sincere way, you seem very young for 25, almost like an 18 year old.. perhaps you are just sheltered... there is no crime in being sheltered and that is not meant as an insult...


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:53:28 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

Ages 19, 24, 25 and 22- so yes, young, but most people I know are young and most people I know with 1500 SAT scores do not drop out of college. One dropped for the sake of relocating for a Master/slave relationship.

quote:

I stand in awe of your scientific observations.


Honestly, there is more love of ignorance in ignoring the possibility of a psychological tendancy to underachieve in connection with sexual submissiveness simply because you do not want to think of any negative association with submission in order to protect your own ego.



so it is ok for you to try to get in to law school, with no desire to do so your self, just because you are told to in a master/slave relationship, but not ok for someone else to drop out for the same reasons?



_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:56:42 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:


so because i didnt care to stay in school and go to college and all that, am i an underachiever? the only thing i consider an important achievement in life is findig your own contentment. some find it as a stripper or a waitress, some as a ceo or a teacher, some never find it at all.


Is this a common value system of the BDSM world?

Perhaps considerable exposure to people who place so little value on meaningful challenges is the problem for some of these young girls.

I know that one girl was a simple masochist who enoyed hurting herself too much to excel.
The stripper cries herself to sleep all the time and wants to keep herself below her Masters.
The cashier just wanted to make sacrifices as a slave for her owners.
I wanted to believe that I should not do anything until a Master owned me and made me do it.

Thus their underachievment is actually connected to their sexual desires.

Its like for some people, masochism and submission spills into every aspect of your life. Ex, you take a loan you cant pay back because you enjoy suffering and debt servitude.



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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 8:59:55 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

so it is ok for you to try to get in to law school, with no desire to do so your self, just because you are told to in a master/slave relationship, but not ok for someone else to drop out for the same reasons?


Your question is "it is ok for a Master to push a slave to be high achieving, self reliant and educated but it is not ok for a Master to compel a slave to move to the middle of nowhere and drop out of school?"

BTW, this girl now thinks leaving school was the worst decision she ever made.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 9:03:42 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

Many of the submissives I speak to seem to fall very short of their full potential. Two have the potential to get straight As all the time and have very high IQs (based on my questions about their standardized test scores) and yet they dropped out of college and do *nothing*. Another barely took any courses needed to get into college even though when I saw her HW assignments, I can see she is good at school.

I myself do the same thing, but not as badly as some of the girls I speak to.

Do submissive girls have a serious tendancy to avoid their full potential? Or is it just a coincidence that I speak to such people?

These girls are still young.


It seems like a lot of your threads focus on standardized test scores and academic achievement.  While its important (to me) its not the be all or end all of life, nor do I think it necessarily deserves the focus you seem to be giving it (judging from past threads from you).

What I've found is that this concept of achievement is very relative.  I don't remotely feel that I've reached my full potential yet, though I would certainly say I'm fairly accomplished (I have degrees from ivy universities and a nice job).  I don't know if I'll ever feel like I've reached my potential.

That being said, I think people in general rarely see or reach their own potential. And if we are talking in terms of academic achievement I would not say the model that I see predominately in the scene is one where the submissive is a driven, focused person with achievements under their belt.  Its definitely present, but I would not say the primary representation.

C~

< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 1/1/2008 9:06:10 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 9:04:48 PM   
carlie310


Posts: 256
Joined: 9/23/2007
Status: offline 		FR, directed at OP:

What some see as under-achieving might also be late-blooming.  Or taking time off to figure out what will be most empowering in the long run.  Life isn't all about SAT, LSAT, grades, etc.  There is life after graduate school. Lots of it, many many years of it.  Better to take some time off on this end, figure out what makes you tick, and get it right.  The other choice could be to work 40+ years at something you hate--just because someone whose life it isn't told you that you should get X degree and pursue Y career. Other circumstances (needing to pay mortgage, grocery bill) could prevent you from going back and getting Q degree and pursuing R career. 

And most humans under achieve at some point, in some area.  Usually at many points in many areas.  Academia is only one dimension--and a very limited one.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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