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RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 10:41:45 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

I do not believe all people need to go to college.


Well, that seems to generally contradict your entire premise of your thread where you labeled people as "underachievers" for not finishing college.

If you do not beleive that all people need to go to college, then the premise of your friend being underachiever for dropping out of college should not exist.

Your creditibility might be greatly improved if you would own up to the logical conclusions presented by your viewpoints as opposed to simply contradicting yourself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty
But put it this way, if you were a bus boy now, I would think you were an underachiever. If you did not see yourself that way, you would be wrong because apparebtly you have the potential to be a chef.


Yeah...okay, but right now you see your friend as an underachiever because she is working as a cashier out of neccessity and not "working towards her full potential".

When I dropped out, I was a busboy so I would still be labeled as an underachiever back then much like your friend.

So once again your contradicting your own viewpoints.

I mean...for fuck's sake...you don't wake up one day and know exactly what you find fulfillment in. Having the potential to be something doesn't equate to instant gratification.

I have potential to be a whole number of different things. Want to guess how many of them I might actually find gratification in?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty
I knew a girl who tried to be premed and I told her to become a chef, because she would be much better at that.


Send me a copy of those unpublished Maslow articles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty
So no, I do not think you have to make money and have two cars in your garage, but there is definitely a point where someone is just not using their time and youth wisely.


So since you have now ruled out college degree, money, and expensive automobiles, what are the qualifiers of that exclusive group of elitists not everyone is cut out to be part of?

quote:


What miniscule percent of stripers ever make anything useful out of that 'career'?


What percentage of sex workers and professional dommes have found personal fulfillment through that job?



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(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 10:47:05 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

quote:

Suppose, for argument's sake, that that's true. What then?


I think some psychologists should study the phenomenon and develop therapy for it.

Some things just need to be done in moderation. Masochism is probably one of those things.

Dieting: ok. Anorexia: Bad.


What phenomenon? That people can't seperate fantasy and reality and some of them apparentlly happen to be submissives?

Read these boards some and I'm sure you will see that a whole wide variety of people of all self declared labels have that same issue.

I would love to hear you explain the connection.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 10:49:12 PM   
kitttty


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quote:


I do not know what your experience is with psychological theory, but you do not seem to know enough about it to be theorizing why people that have certain sorts of sexual fantasies and enjoy being submissive in their personal relationships are somehow flawed.


Not all. Just some.
And I do not recall another thread that implied that submissives shared some personality flaw (although this thread does not imply that).

quote:

If you think that submissives are so crappy, why would you want to own one for yourself or be one?


I choose to be submissive as much as Meslissa Ethridge chooses to be a lesbian.

And I do not think they are 'crappy' although the ones I speak to do seem in serious need of some intelligent guidance. After reading this thread, I can see that it might indeed be hard to get a Domme that says 'quit being a stripper and get a job with health insurance."

After all, what's wrong with being a stripper? (note the sarcasm)

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 10:57:40 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

The computer you type on, the lights you sit under and the internet were not made by a bunch of lazy people who just did not care to burn the midnight oil and just did not care to try and become more successful.




Bill Gates (Microsoft) left college in his Junior year. Other success stories do not include college degrees, either:
Michael Dell (Dell Computers) 
Larry Ellison (Oracle)
Steve Jobs (Apple)
Thomas Edison (lightbulb)
Ted Turner (CNN)
Henry Ford (Ford Motors)
Steven Spielberg (movies)
Ralph Lauren (fashion)
Ray Croc (McDonalds)
Walt Disney
John D. Rockefeller
Orville & Wilber Wright
Lance Armstrong
Chuck Yeager
Michael Moore
Larry King
Walter Cronkite
Frank Lloyd Wright
Al Sharpton


So, the computer and lights I work with were brought to me by folks without college educations.  I don't view academia as the definition of success, ambitious, laziness, etc.  And some of those folks above failed a number of times before ever becoming successful.

My Dad told me something shortly before he died.  To give you an indication of his credentials, he was a graduate of Annapolis, a Naval Lieutenant, and worked for the US Government doing top clearance things he was unable to share with his family.  I discovered in his later years, he was an expert in Russian satellite reconnaissance, which explained his frequent trips to Washington.  He never missed a birthday, a holiday, or important school events.  It was the norm for him to be home by 5:30 every night for family dinner, despite consistently getting flak from the bosses for his refusal to put in the kind of overtime they wanted him to.

At the end of his life, he said, "I could have done a lot more with my life.  I could have worked harder and earned the kind of prestige that was so important to my own parents.  We could have had a bigger house and nicer cars.  And I would have been a success in my father's eyes.  But from a very young age, I realized those things were not so important to me.  What was important was having a wife I truly loved, and raising a family that was close, and loving and respectful, who appreciated life, and who were good people.  And now I look back on my life, and I see my five beautiful children and how they are living their lives, and I feel so much pride, because I am indeed a successful man."

I am not advocating not going to school.  I actually returned to school myself, to finish my own degree.  But we have no idea what paths people are on, and what they are struggling with.  I look at one of my brothers, who dropped out of high school and was a drug addict for so many years.  I see him now, in his 2400 square foot home, with his beautiful wife and daughters, and see how dedicated he is to giving his free time to recovery homes - lecturing, counseling, and helping those who are now where he once was.  And he can only do that because of where he was in his early 20s.  He's a man with very little education who did "nothing" for a long time.  And I consider him a huge success.

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 10:59:10 PM   
preiapet


Posts: 8
Joined: 8/20/2007
Status: offline 		Dominants can't force submissives into their service.  If they want to be a stripper and a Dominant tells them to get a job with health insurance, who is to say they won't just tell the Dominant where to get off and find one that does not mind their chosen profession.  Submissives make choices.  Slaves make choices.  Being a submissive or a slave does not give one the right to blame every thing on the dominant.  Therefore, why should a Dominant (or anyone else) cast aspersions on another's choices.  We do not know why they made those choices, only that they did... and they have to live with them.

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:01:45 PM   
kitttty


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quote:


Well, that seems to generally contradict your entire premise of your thread where you labeled people as "underachievers" for not finishing college.

If you do not beleive that all people need to go to college, then the premise of your friend being underachiever for dropping out of college should not exist.

Your creditibility might be greatly improved if you would own up to the logical conclusions presented by your viewpoints as opposed to simply contradicting yourself.


Im not contradicting myself, actually. The premise is not that they are underachievers for not finishing college. As I implied many times, if they quit college to do something meaningful or necessary, it would be different. Understandably, some people have children to raise and cannot complete school. Some people just dont like school. Some people are good at other things.

No, this is not that. This is about simply not trying to better yourself and simply not trying to be productive.

quote:


So since you have now ruled out college degree, money, and expensive automobiles, what are the qualifiers of that exclusive group of elitists not everyone is cut out to be part of?


In theory, everyone can have a wonderful spouse. Almost everyone in the US can actually obtain an unskilled job (provided they have basic health). But some things, only some people can do through effort into their own self actualization. Being a doctor is one such example.

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:04:19 PM   
kitttty


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quote:

And some of those folks above failed a number of times before ever becoming successful.


But they were trying. Trying is something.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:08:11 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
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quote:

If they want to be a stripper and a Dominant tells them to get a job with health insurance, who is to say they won't just tell the Dominant where to get off and find one that does not mind their chosen profession.


Her former Domme told her to go to school and she did and got a 4.0. She went away and then this girl went back to her old ways. This is not a Dom's fault as far as I can see, but I would think that anyone who chose to own her that did not care to try and dissuade her from this job would be an irresponsible person.

And I think she herself is messed up for making this decision. She generally knows that too.

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:12:43 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

quote:

If they want to be a stripper and a Dominant tells them to get a job with health insurance, who is to say they won't just tell the Dominant where to get off and find one that does not mind their chosen profession.


Her former Domme told her to go to school and she did and got a 4.0. She went away and then this girl went back to her old ways. This is not a Dom's fault as far as I can see, but I would think that anyone who chose to own her that did not care to try and dissuade her from this job would be an irresponsible person.

And I think she herself is messed up for making this decision. She generally knows that too.


Another example of a dominant ordering a submissive to do something they were not emotionally prepared to do, or had no interest in doing... she reverted to her old ways because she was not intrinsically motivated to carry through...

This is why I am dubious of a dominant ordering a submissive to do anything of this magnitude. It could be a good thing, but in my opinion directing the career path of a young person is something that one should not do, I do not even respect it when parents force their adult kids into things they have no desire to do... much less a dominant

_____________________________

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(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:12:45 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

quote:

And some of those folks above failed a number of times before ever becoming successful.


But they were trying. Trying is something.


Without knowing what inner struggles your friends are facing, no one on this thread, yourself included, could possibly decide whether they are trying or not.

And my brother certainly wasn't trying until he decided to get sober.


Edited to add:  I can certainly understand not respecting someone who lacks motivation.  We all have our judgments of what we respect and what we do not respect.  I was married to someone completely unmotivated and who lacked drive.  I have no respect for him at all.  I think your point here is you have trouble respecting people who aren't trying to do something with their lives.  I can understand that, but I also understand there are sometimes reasons people are stuck where they are and haven't figured out how to unstick themselves yet...some don't even want to.  And while I understand that exists, that doesn't mean I have to be in relationships with them.  You yourself have claimed to be an underachiever, so surely you understand this, too.  Perhaps that's why it irks you in others.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 1/1/2008 11:15:48 PM >

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:14:20 PM   
preiapet


Posts: 8
Joined: 8/20/2007
Status: offline 		She is following what is important to her at this time.  Whether that is the attraction of fast easy money, the way the men make her feel attractive, or even a sense of power over men.  She is getting something out of it that satisfies an inner need.  That is not for me to judge.  So many people want the fast easy money, and in some parts of our culture, a stripper is an acceptable occupation. 

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:19:03 PM   
kitttty


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Joined: 10/10/2007
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quote:


Without knowing what inner struggles your friends are facing, no one on this thread, yourself included, could possibly decide whether they are trying or not.


For them, the inner struggle is to find a reason to try.

I know they are not trying because I talk to them. Stripper said in her last semester of college (she did not finish), she did not even open a book. Didn't do something else with her time either- just partied since there was no Domme to keep her in line. She said to me "I am not this person. I am a straight A person."

Premed drop out says she misses school every time I talk to her.

Both resent their own decisions. There is no sense in someone else telling them that its ok and that they ought to accept what they do not want to be and obviously cannot ever like being.


I do not have to judge others for underachieving. They judge themselves and come tell me.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:24:42 PM   
kitttty


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quote:

That is not for me to judge. So many people want the fast easy money, and in some parts of our culture, a stripper is an acceptable occupation.


Oh shut up. It's dangerous because of risk of sexual assault, unhealthy because it does not provide health insurance and can lead to promiscuity with men who frequent hookers, it makes it very difficult to avoid drug problems and the whole career leads no where.

What else won't you judge? Suicide bombing? You know, that's acceptable some places.


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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:28:29 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

quote:


Without knowing what inner struggles your friends are facing, no one on this thread, yourself included, could possibly decide whether they are trying or not.



I do not have to judge others for underachieving. They judge themselves and come tell me.


But you do judge them, as is your perogative.  And as seen in your last post to preiapet (your post #93), you think we should, too.

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:36:30 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline 		Only, *only* on collarme, is the statement that someone with the capacity to consistenly get a 4.0 in college who becomes a hooker/stripper/drop out is an underachiever a form of inappropriate judgment.

It's about as judgmental as the sky looks blue.

I am glad at least someone in the SM world has standards of health, safety, longevity and whatnot.



(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:39:51 PM   
preiapet


Posts: 8
Joined: 8/20/2007
Status: offline 		However, that is still their decision.  We can decide as a society to make it illegal.  However, that does not mean they won't make the same decision.  It just makes it more likely to be dangerous because they do not have any way of seeking protection from the police. 

We cannot make another person's decision for them, and judging them does not change the decision.  Judging them does nothing for them.  It only helps you feel better about yourself.  I just do not feel the need to judge others to feel better about myself. 

If the stripper had good grades, she can return to school anytime she wants.  I know several girls who would take a year off and earn enough money to go to school then go back to school for a year.  How they earned their money was their business, not mine.

Life has taught me that the only person I can truly control is myself.  I can control others only so far as they allow me to control them.  To try to do otherwise only frustrates both people.  If they do not want me making their decisions, then all the judging and complaining and pointing out the error of their ways only upsets everyone involved.  Ultimately, it is not my place to make those decisions for them, they have to do that themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/1/2008 11:51:42 PM   
kitttty


Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline 		Dandy then. Let's not judge.

Let's start with not judging me if I choose to agonize over my 167 or if I think size 0 is still too fat for me, which I do think.

After all, I am most unhappy when I do not try to live up to extremely difficult standards. And really, I dont project them onto other people. For others, I have bare minimum standards, I think.

(in reply to preiapet)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/2/2008 12:00:36 AM   
preiapet


Posts: 8
Joined: 8/20/2007
Status: offline 		I, personally, did not judge you for those things.  You make your decisions how you see fit to make them, based on your values and priorities.  Just like I make my own decisions.

As for the health considerations of the adult sex industry, I never said that I would have a physical relationship with someone who was a stripper/porn star/prostitute.  However, I was not addressing how I make the decisions concerning my health and well-being.  I was only discussing labeling others for things that have little impact on your life other than to say "Hey, at least I'm better than....."

I don't mind others who only want to date those who are of a certain physical condition as long as they do not come up to me and expound on what they perceive to be my physical flaws.  It's not about making decisions for yourself.  It's about trying to tell everyone else how they should live their life that frustrates and alienates people.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/2/2008 8:33:21 AM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

Many of the submissives I speak to seem to fall very short of their full potential. Two have the potential to get straight As all the time and have very high IQs (based on my questions about their standardized test scores) and yet they dropped out of college and do *nothing*. Another barely took any courses needed to get into college even though when I saw her HW assignments, I can see she is good at school.

I myself do the same thing, but not as badly as some of the girls I speak to.

Do submissive girls have a serious tendancy to avoid their full potential? Or is it just a coincidence that I speak to such people?

These girls are still young.

Let's see, you have 3 listed.  Just how big of a population size are ya talking of here?  And why do you do this yourself?

thornhappy

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: The underachieving disease - 1/2/2008 8:35:28 AM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

quote:

think about that, two submissives out of many many submissives... that is called a faulty generalization.


You're missing the point. I have not observed that most submissives underachieve, I have observed that the most severe cases of underachievement I have seen were young female submissives.

coincidence != causality

(in reply to kitttty)
Profile   Post #: 100
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