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Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 6:35:10 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		How would you deal with a submissive/slave/whatever who responded in a non-constructive manner to any form of disapproval, correction, or disappointment you showed over an error or bad behavior?

For example, the person automatically responds by getting down on herself and viewing herself as a failure and incompetent as opposed to constructively viewing this as an opportunity to improve.

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 6:38:05 PM   
kinkypuppy2


Posts: 345
Joined: 11/4/2007
Status: offline 		Sounds like they are punnishing themselves more themselves then the Dom is.. What I would do..work on reinforcing their attitude about themselves more when they are doing good.

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 6:44:10 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
For example, the person automatically responds by getting down on herself and viewing herself as a failure and incompetent as opposed to constructively viewing this as an opportunity to improve.


I used to be like that.  My Master gave me the rule that the only one who had the right to berate me was him, that not even I could berate myself.  And he proceeded to explain to me that berating myself was criticizing his good judgement.  After all, if he thought I was good enough, who was I to tell him he was wrong?

It took me awhile to learn this, and learning it came with developing my own self esteem and self confidence.  He took me down that path by giving me lots of self assessment assignments (which taught me to think and analyze and become self aware), and by requiring many things of me that were a challenge for me.  Accomplishing difficult challenges brings about a sense of pride and confidence in one's abilities. 

So he got me through self deprecation by not tolerating it, and by teaching me to see my capabilities and be proud of them.

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 6:45:45 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
For example, the person automatically responds by getting down on herself and viewing herself as a failure and incompetent as opposed to constructively viewing this as an opportunity to improve.


I used to be like that.  My Master gave me the rule that the only one who had the right to berate me was him, that not even I could berate myself.  And he proceeded to explain to me that berating myself was criticizing his good judgement.  After all, if he thought I was good enough, who was I to tell him he was wrong?

It took me awhile to learn this, and learning it came with developing my own self esteem and self confidence.  He took me down that path by giving me lots of self assessment assignments (which taught me to think and analyze and become self aware), and by requiring many things of me that were a challenge for me.  Accomplishing difficult challenges brings about a sense of pride and confidence in one's abilities. 

So he got me through self deprecation by not tolerating it, and by teaching me to see my capabilities and be proud of them.


Thanks for writing this. I really appreciate it

(And fuck, I still owe you an email)

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 6:46:11 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings madrabbit,

usually he reminds me not so gently that wallowing in guilt, self-loathing, etc. ultimately makes it about me and detracts from my service to him.

respectfully,
annabelle.


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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 6:47:35 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

(And fuck, I still owe you an email)


I'm incredibly patient. 

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 6:59:26 PM   
ksub4u


Posts: 124
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline 		Sounds very much like a basic self-esteem problem within the submissive.  Perhaps when you are correcting her you could supply her with a way to improve?  When I've being corrected in the past, he's usually asked 'What would you do differently?" or "what should you have done?"  This could easily lead to my thinking what a dope I was to handle a situation the wrong way or to make a mistake...but if he said "in that situation, I'd prefer it if you did XYZ, rather than the decision you chose."  which might lead me to think more on future actions rather than past mistakes.  

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 7:01:22 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I typically begin a relationship by telling my partner that at various times she will feel like a failure for making mistakes, being corrected, or simply being shown how I prefer to have something done (something that cannot be known to her until I tell her about it).  It's almost certain to happen, and I don't think there's any one method of dealing with it.
 
Sometimes some reassurement helps.  Sometimes a reminder about my earlier prediction.  Sometimes an admonission not to take on my role as Dominant (by punishing herself).  Sometimes teaching her that I can't be "Master" if she's already playing the part (that phrasing seems to work often).  And sometimes I just send her to her room and tell her to get over it.
 
John

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 7:28:18 PM   
Arrrchibald


Posts: 350
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline 		Dump her.  Move on. 

Some people change but not many, and only if they really want to.  If you give someone a helpful hint and they go fishing for pity, lash out at you, or blame someone else, then they probably don't want to change. 

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 7:40:01 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

How would you deal with a submissive/slave/whatever who responded in a non-constructive manner to any form of disapproval, correction, or disappointment you showed over an error or bad behavior?

For example, the person automatically responds by getting down on herself and viewing herself as a failure and incompetent as opposed to constructively viewing this as an opportunity to improve.


If they were mine, when ever an issue came up, I would have them write or verbally give me a list of, “what to do instead”; then go over the list with them, working through ideas that might not be feasible.
 
I would also inform them of how, I don’t appreciate them, thinking so little of my property.
 
My owner has instructed me to wear an elastic band around my wrist, whenever I have a specific negative thought, I am to snap myself; works with me.
 
k

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 7:42:48 PM   
Statepalace


Posts: 185
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline 		I used to be that way also. Highly sensitive to criticism, so much so that it literally hurt to hear it.

Part of it for me was a terror of failure. I had always been so "perfect" (grades mainly) that I had seriously warped perceptions about the standards that I "had" to hold myself to.

For me, if I failed at something I became worthless, as a huge portion of my self-worth was tied up in my being "perfect" - smart, capable, pleasing, not needing help, successful, etc.

When I taught high school for two years, they had me go through classes on teaching different types of kids (because my degree was not in teaching). To sum it up, one of these classed described a type of kid was very self critical and feared failure. One of the reasons given was that they were very bright and driven, and so rarely failed at anything. They never learned it was ok to try something and fail; that it wasn't the end of the world.

It really struck a cord with me. There had been a time in my life where I would NOT try something new if I did not think I would be good at it, because being good at things was WHO I was. Very limiting, and very anxiety producing.

I wanted to change, so I had to relearn a lot of things. Learning that failure is ok took a long time.

I don't know if this is her issue or not, but what helps me be able to hear criticism is to have a lot of "CB's" - football term for confidence builders. About ten to one is a good ratio for me. Slip one tiny little correction in there, make it sound really similar in tone of voice to the pats on back, and it is a lot easier for me to not freak out and hate myself.

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 8:18:58 PM   
darkpassenger434


Posts: 138
Joined: 1/1/2008
Status: offline 		I had a sub like that. I never could break her of the habit, and measures that attempted to do so generally ended with irrational anger on her part and turning on me. I finally had to reevaluate my relationship with her. That being said, that was my experience. I'm sure some people can be trained to let go of this kind of thing. I have often seen situations where "authority" doesn't seem to include the authority to tell someone they do have value. Very strange.
-R

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 8:26:45 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		M. Madrabbit,
 
I got two words for you.
 
CATTLE PROD.
 
Somethings just can't be gotten past by anything better than good ol fashion operant conditioning.
 
Lawrence

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 8:38:03 PM   
Tantriqu


Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		[quote: CATTLE PROD. ]
Oh, yeah, illegal corporal punishment will work [EYEROLL].
Just because you're a bully, doesn't mean you're a dom.  Hope your victims call the cops and the cops have seen 'No Country'.

Now, back to the original good question.
1.  Recognise the pattern since she can't
2.  Describe what you've observed and possible reasons why she does it.  Ensure your expectations are reasonable and not impossible.
3.  Offer reward when she doesn't do it; reward helps self esteem MUCH more than correction:  DUH! 
4.  Verbally  or  MILD physically correct.
5.  Get her professional accredited help
6.  Uncollar.

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 9:42:19 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		My partner is Jewish, so this is sort of built into his nature.  I generally stopped it as soon as it began, explained exactly what I was feeling and what I was NOT feeling (since he'd always assume the worst), explained how his assumptions meant that I would choose someone so horrible to be in my life and ask if he really felt I was the type of person to choose that for myself (of course not).

And through a long series of training exercises, real life examples, breaking down some of the patterns he'd built in his life, breaking through a few false mirrors he'd forgotten he even put up I've gotten so that it rarely ever gets bad for him and that I can almost immediately stop the "bad boy train" in its tracks.

I'm not sure I'll ever get him to stop going in the first place, but still tremendous progress in just a few years.

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/10/2008 9:45:25 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Sometimes I get defensive, which I am working hard on overcoming.

I will say that the submissive that is being "down" on herself maybe engaging in a little passive aggressiveness with the guilt card? Not saying this is common, but it is a possibility...


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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/11/2008 12:17:08 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		A problem I was having,  so reading this and seeing  the responses here to,  is  very helpful into putting things in a different perspective and understanding what is expected

and being punished further for  feeling like a failure does not work too well  for me.

--Also the difference between how first my dom and second  criticized made a huge difference in the way I reacted

with one-- I felt it was something new to learn, it was positive,  it did not  feel like a personal attack -self esteem grew

the other -- OMG I screwed up again! Oh no.. now what? self esteemed plummeted


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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/11/2008 1:50:15 AM   
beltainefaerie


Posts: 610
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline 		I think that many submissives are like this at first.  We want to be the perfect sub and hate falling short of that.  Basically over time, we learn that falling short of an expectation doesn't mean we are a failure, merely that we have failed for the moment at one task.  Making sure that corrections are not overly harsh and that the sub has an opportunity to right the wrong as soon as possible seems to help.

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/11/2008 1:53:44 AM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings madrabbit,

usually he reminds me not so gently that wallowing in guilt, self-loathing, etc. ultimately makes it about me and detracts from my service to him.

respectfully,
annabelle.



I love this response. Absolutely, bedrock truth. Bravo annabelle and Master!!

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RE: Non-Constructive Responses - 1/11/2008 2:40:48 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings madrabbit,

usually he reminds me not so gently that wallowing in guilt, self-loathing, etc. ultimately makes it about me and detracts from my service to him.

respectfully,
annabelle.



I love this response. Absolutely, bedrock truth. Bravo annabelle and Master!!


Same here.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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