quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

How would you deal with a submissive/slave/whatever who responded in a non-constructive manner to any form of disapproval, correction, or disappointment you showed over an error or bad behavior?

For example, the person automatically responds by getting down on herself and viewing herself as a failure and incompetent as opposed to constructively viewing this as an opportunity to improve.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

It took me awhile to learn this, and learning it came with developing my own self esteem and self confidence.  He took me down that path by giving me lots of self assessment assignments (which taught me to think and analyze and become self aware), and by requiring many things of me that were a challenge for me.  Accomplishing difficult challenges brings about a sense of pride and confidence in one's abilities. 

So he got me through self deprecation by not tolerating it, and by teaching me to see my capabilities and be proud of them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

How would you deal with a submissive/slave/whatever who responded in a non-constructive manner to any form of disapproval, correction, or disappointment you showed over an error or bad behavior?

For example, the person automatically responds by getting down on herself and viewing herself as a failure and incompetent as opposed to constructively viewing this as an opportunity to improve.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

My partner is Jewish, so this is sort of built into his nature. 

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Rabbit,

Read LA's response a few times, it is solid advice.

YOU cannot make someone change PERIOD.  However, if they are ready to change (everyone say's they are ready, few actually are) they CAN change.

Get her real counseling, support her in going, doing intrude into it, just support her. 

Remember, criticising her for criticising herself reinforces rather than improves her poor self image.

Here is a technique I have used with some success, meaning it may suck for you or it may not work for her.  I make them say positive affirmations about something they feel bad about.  "daddy thinks I am the prettiest girl in the whole world" for example.  Make a playful low stress game of it.  They will often have trouble saying it, so lavish love and attention on them while they are trying.  That counters their mental voice saying "I am ugly and unlovable".  Make them say it over a few times, teasing them that you want to hear it in their voice that they believe it.  Praise them for saying it with conviction, again reinforcing the positive.  Then ask them to say "I am a pretty girl" again, lavish love and attention on them, stroke her hair while you coax it out of her.

It could be, "I am smart" or "I am a good XX" or whatever, but the process is the same.  What you are doing is destroying the evil parent voice saying " you are ugly/stupid/unlovable" with your voice saying they ARE "beautiful/smart/loveable.  This doesn't work in a month or two, but over a year or two has done wonders.
Be patient, change seldom comes easily or quickly but it can come.

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ORIGINAL: lateralist1

Whatever you do don't give up.
Can you imagine what that would do to her self esteem?

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I am Jewish and have no idea what you mean by this. Are you saying that Jewish people get down on themselves and do not take constructive criticism? Or that they have low self-esteem. None of which is true in my case or anyone else that I personally know. Unless you are basing assumptions on just YOUR partner or Woody Allen characters.

Care to comment?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

But generally, it's a joke based on a stereotype that Jewish kids are raised with tons of guilt and never being good enough and never doing the right thing and always having to please their moms.

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

I am Jewish and have no idea what you mean by this. Are you saying that Jewish people get down on themselves and do not take constructive criticism? Or that they have low self-esteem. None of which is true in my case or anyone else that I personally know. Unless you are basing assumptions on just YOUR partner or Woody Allen characters.

Care to comment?

I comment that you are too sensitive.

But generally, it's a joke based on a stereotype that Jewish kids are raised with tons of guilt and never being good enough and never doing the right thing and always having to please their moms.

If you can't laugh and appreciate a stereotype for the pleasure it can bring, what can you laugh at?

As well, I think it's way too soon after trying to pretend that Hannaukah is a "major holiday" to the Jewish faith to start taking any umbrage under that label and be taken seriously.

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1
LMFAO. That's hilarious. I am so glad you find my posts to be of such interest that you would remember that far back. I maintain that my choice of whether I consider a holiday to be major or not is my fucking choice, not to be determined by you or anyone else.

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I find it sickening to see anti-semitism in any guise, especially from someone who is dating a Jewish person. If you think that laughing at stereotypes makes it fine, let your Jewish partner deal with it, I don't have to.

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Oh, and fuck you if you don't like my opinion. I am not sensitive; I just do not suffer fools gladly; I don't like stereotypes in any form.

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1
LMFAO. That's hilarious. I am so glad you find my posts to be of such interest that you would remember that far back. I maintain that my choice of whether I consider a holiday to be major or not is my fucking choice, not to be determined by you or anyone else.

Actually it's just how my mind works- I've got an insanely good relational memory.  It's how I do all my linkings so quickly and so well.  It's how I can do training and other things people think are "psychic" so well.  It's not really anything I put effort into, it's just how my mind works.

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I find it sickening to see anti-semitism in any guise, especially from someone who is dating a Jewish person. If you think that laughing at stereotypes makes it fine, let your Jewish partner deal with it, I don't have to.

Very true, but you chose to deal with it by responding to it.

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Oh, and fuck you if you don't like my opinion. I am not sensitive; I just do not suffer fools gladly; I don't like stereotypes in any form.

But you certainly do live up to a few of them very well :)

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1
You're a riot LA. I am not a member of your fan club, so keep on with your egotistical nonsense. And I will keep responding to that nonsense if I choose to.

There is no stereotype here; just someone who sees through your bullshit which stinks so badly you can smell from here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

I am Jewish and have no idea what you mean by this. Are you saying that Jewish people get down on themselves and do not take constructive criticism? Or that they have low self-esteem. None of which is true in my case or anyone else that I personally know. Unless you are basing assumptions on just YOUR partner or Woody Allen characters.

Care to comment?

I comment that you are too sensitive.

But generally, it's a joke based on a stereotype that Jewish kids are raised with tons of guilt and never being good enough and never doing the right thing and always having to please their moms.

If you can't laugh and appreciate a stereotype for the pleasure it can bring, what can you laugh at?

As well, I think it's way too soon after trying to pretend that Hannaukah is a "major holiday" to the Jewish faith to start taking any umbrage under that label and be taken seriously.