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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 12:08:37 AM   
DisenchantedLife


Posts: 193
Status: offline 		ok - one more before I go.

No it is not technically supervised.  I think I emailed you the round a bouts of what the "supervision" is and it isn't supervision.  If we could get the supervision - real supervision - I would cheer.  No my lo isn't upset because of me.  I don't cry until he cries (its him crying and his obvious distress that makes me cry).  Even while I'm crying I whip out a toy and smile while the tears fall.  I try and stay up beat for him, but it doesnt work. 

< Message edited by DisenchantedLife -- 1/19/2008 12:16:38 AM >

(in reply to laurell3)
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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 12:09:54 AM   
Feric


Posts: 227
Joined: 1/9/2008
From: San Francisco
Status: offline 		Okay, I'm clearly out of the loop. I'm going to bow out of this entire thread until I've got my facts straight. 

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 12:22:20 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle
sorry. i was planning to stay out of this thread because i didn't really feel i had much to add, but i had to comment on that because i was in absolute disbelief. i'm so sorry you've gone through this, ownedgirlie, but i am so glad that you have managed to realize how amazing and worthy you are.

respectfully,
annabelle.



Aww, thank you annabelle.  I had to have evidence of his threats.  There was only one, questionable threat left on voicemail.  He was smart enough to record nothing - verbally or in writing, and was sweet as pie in front of anyone.  He's crazy.  His step mother said he had built a shrine of me at the house.  This past Christmas I received a card addressed to "My beloved wife."  The divorce has been carrying on for well over a year, and his own lawyer just relieved herself of representing him.  Still, he sued for spousal support and was awarded "temporary support" until we go to court, but the court dates keep getting post poned.  The house is foreclosing and most everything I owned was removed from it without my knowledge about a year ago.  I'm still fighting to get it back.

Leaving an abusive environment can be an entirely different kind of hell, but when you have your soul back, there's no hell worse than where you were when you had lost it.  It's just that the systems that are in place are so abused and overused that those who need it often don't get the help they seek. 

While I can understand the frustration of the OP, such frustration is not a good reason to stay in an abusive environment.  There are shelters and volunteer groups who are willing to help.  I know for me, the family I had been sequestered from welcomed me back with open arms and bent over backwards to help.  It blew me away, since I didn't think I was worth helping.  Life really is good on the other side of hell.  :)

Really the important thing is not to lose hope.  There is always hope.

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 12:23:12 AM   
Maestro66babycak


Posts: 396
Status: offline 		How old is your little one?

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 12:26:57 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DisenchantedLife

ok - one more before I go.

No it is not technically supervised.  I think I emailed you the round a bouts of what the "supervision" is and it isn't supervision.  If we could get the supervision - real supervision - I would cheer.  No my lo isn't upset because of me.  I don't cry until he cries (its him crying and his obvious distress that makes me cry).  Even while I'm crying I whip out a toy and smile while the tears fall.  I try and stay up beat for him, but it doesnt work. 


Hon most child psychologists will tell you even at seven months he knows you are upset and if you are crying just because a baby does you might need to look into being seen for depression.  Get into a support group, there are tons of them out there and you're not alone. Get a therapist, the dv shelters will have lists of those that deal with these issues specifically. 

As you mentioned the email I will say you have a hearing coming up on the issue of visitation being supervised by a neutral agency instead of one of his relatives (I think that's right).  It's still a huge victory.  Supervised visitation isn't common in my experience.  Before you discount the system and everyone in it I would thank my lucky stars you got an attorney that got you this far and wait and see what happens at that hearing.  Every single family law attorney I know uses these words when talking to clients about custody cases "There are no winners, only losers."  You may never get everything that you want.  You're not actually supposed to except in cases of extreme circumstances (which may or may not be here, it's very difficult to tell).  I'd think twice about the fact that you have really actually gotten quite a victory here already and get in therapy or a support group to help you deal with this anguish and frustration.  As I told you, I do understand the system is a complicated maze for those not in it often, but you seem to be running the gauntlet with strides right now, you just can't see it.  Get some rest, get some help and wait and see what happens, but please do NOT tell abused people not to leave.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 1/19/2008 12:31:18 AM >

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When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 12:33:49 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DisenchantedLife
Courts don't care, police don't care. 


Obviously. More importantly, in the U.S., the police are not legally obligated to protect you. YOU are the only one with a vested interest in protecting yourself. Ignore said responsibility at your own peril.

quote:


So the moral of the story is this :  if you find that you've royally screwed up, been absolutetly blind about somebody, and realise you're in a bad situation.  Do nothing!  There is no way out.  No saving yourself or others.  You are stuck.  Might as well adapt and get used to it, because that was the last mistake you get to make.


That's a pretty down-beat moral. How about: "CHOOSE YOUR PARTNERS CAREFULLY, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'LL BE YOUR BABYMOMMA/BABYDADDY"

There are good people and bad people. Why do so many otherwise intelligent women always end up with the bad ones?

< Message edited by petdave -- 1/19/2008 12:35:53 AM >

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 12:35:20 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		petdave unless you own a time machine, she can't go back in time and change who she had a child with.  She can however move forward and accept where she is right now.

_____________________________

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When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 12:47:32 AM   
Maestro66babycak


Posts: 396
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave


There are good people and bad people. Why do so many otherwise intelligent women always end up with the bad ones?


Because bad men are soooooo goooooood at making people think they are good men. Some of us do not know just how abusive of bad a man is until after the preacher says, I now pronounce you husband and wife.
 
Some of us are blinded by love. We think we can change him. We think there is really some good in his heart somewhere and we try to bring it out. Most of the time we find out the hard way that we are wrong. Then its too late to just walk away. Especially if there are children involved.

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 1:48:01 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		You got out with your child that is a  huge victory,  part of your upset was that your child was nursing  so you felt it was unfair that the father should have visitation,  even in non abusive relationship breakdowns the father still has a right to see their child, so a sacrifice has to be made to bottlefeed, that is normal.   It is extremely rare for any court to deny a father access to their child, the same was true when I left my husband 27 years ago, the only different the was that their was no agencies to provide supervised visitation so it was normal for a relative of the father to do the supervising back then where voilence was a concern, you do have the advantage that nowadays agencies exist, but it is process that has to be arranged with lawyers and court so in the interim a family relative is appointed to supervise until and agency is arranged.  All in all considering your case has  moved along well and quite fast  compared to many other locales.  If your expectation is that the courts should deny him visitation ...it is not likely going to happen.... maybe in time he will lose interest in the child,  with my husband it took 4 years and he signed over all custodials rights over  to me in exchange I had no more entitlement to support payments for my son including the over 3 years of back support, from what I understand that  can no longer be today as that is the  childs entitlement and my son now if he wanted to could sue for that money despite it being part of a divorce settled the legal reason the parents/courts have no right to bargain his entitlement away, which now puts the courts into a position where they must demand it from the  non-custodial parent  and as a result it gives that parent entitlement to access to their child .... so the very best you will get  it supervised vists within the next couple of court cases a agency will be arranged to do the supervision.  So let go of all of that frustration and anger you have it is weighing you down and still bonding you to your ex ,  and start accepting the fact you have won and be glad your not being dragged  thru 4 years court dates to finally win.   My grandson is 2  and everytime he goes to assort babysitters for the past 15 months  when his parents work he gets all quiet, pouty  and withdrawn  and there is no abuse occuring it is just the way he reacts to being shuffled around, when he comes visits me he  is in happy hyper mode different than the way he behaves at home,  my son used to be the screamer throwing angry temper tantrums in the same situation at that age, so I would not go assuming your lo is suffering from mental abuse , it may be simply his way of reacting to change and being shuffled around/change of routine

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 2:09:59 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

petdave unless you own a time machine, she can't go back in time and change who she had a child with.  She can however move forward and accept where she is right now.


True, without a time machine, a lot of self-analysis is moot. If she's still got eggs, tho, she can learn from her mistakes and move on.  Most likely he doesn't give a damn about the kid and just wants it as a link to pull her back. 

Secret Guy Rule #1: Poontang trumps screaming wotzit that needs to be fed and can't be left in the yard while i'm at work.

All the divorced babydaddies i know* complain about how "the system" is rigged for the mother. All the divorced babymommas* complain about how they're "The One Exception" and the fix is in to screw them over.

What eva, i do what i want!

"Acceptance" is feel-good jackshit. Solve problems. Stop dating jerks just because they have self-confidence. Get fixed.

What eva, i do what i want!



*admittedly few. i don't claim to be Maury Povitch, Jerry Springer, or Oprah.

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 7:05:01 AM   
Bound2One


Posts: 614
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DisenchantedLife

ok - one more before I go.

No it is not technically supervised.  I think I emailed you the round a bouts of what the "supervision" is and it isn't supervision.  If we could get the supervision - real supervision - I would cheer.  No my lo isn't upset because of me.  I don't cry until he cries (its him crying and his obvious distress that makes me cry).  Even while I'm crying I whip out a toy and smile while the tears fall.  I try and stay up beat for him, but it doesnt work. 


This is coming from an experienced mom (2 of my um's had colic and were rather high-strung).  The baby doesn't have to see you crying to sense your underlying stress.  A relaxed mother helps nurture a relaxed feeling in the baby (again, not always, but crying with him isn't going to help either of you).  I'm not picking on you here, just offering some advice.  It's hard, really hard when your child doesn't seem happy.  I couldn't put my one um down for almost a year.  He needed to be held constantly, and he was with me constantly, so there was no abuse going on.  It was just the way he was built.  (and he's the absolute sweetest 15yo I could ask for now!)  Don't worry about the breastfeeding.  He'll do fine if you pump and give him the bottle once or twice a day.  No court is going to deny the father visitation just because the mother is f/t nursing when the option of pumping is there. 

Oh, and remember ... babies cry.  Even happy, well cared for 7 month olds.  Sometimes it's a matter of constant ear infections, or just being a 'needy' baby.  They're all built differently.  Learn what it takes to soothe him.  Don't lose it when he cries.  Cuddle him, cradle him, walk with him, rock with him, talking soothingly in his ear.  And breathe.  Relax.  Let go of the stress while you're with him.  Cry later when he's sleeping if need be, or better yet, join a support group who can help you deal with the divorce/visitation issues. 

But please, don't advise women not to leave bad situations.  That's dangerous and unconstructive for everyone.



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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 8:21:16 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		petdave this is one topic you would be best to stay out of,  her reactions are not abnormal for a woman who has dealt with day after day abuse,  and you are probably not aware of how abusers choose their victims  and how they wrap them around their little fingers to create a pyschological connection before they start isolating them and then abusing them, if she did not have the child she may very well have stayed with the ass  as her self worth and esteem had taken such a beating that part just came to accept it she stopped living but merely existed, but her baby drew out her strength, some incident more likely occured where she witnessed her child in danger from the ass,  and the mother bear  wanting to protect it's cub instinct was drawn out of her and became her reason to fight back and survive, and that is what she is still functioning on  with her claws drawn ready to lash out at anyone who poses a risk to her child, she has not had time yet to absorb all  that has happened and to recognize that  she has indeed found safety and realize what she has a accomplished , as she is still too focused on protecting  her child at all costs.    I have been there, I know what it is like to have the entire focus and reason for living is for protecting the child.  is was not something I was able to let go easily because for years afterward  I woke up nightly crying and shaking from nightmares of him holding a knife to his throat threatning to kill him and forcing me to watch, like Disenchanted turning over my son to him from visitation ripped me apart each time and I was more focused on that failing to protect my son during that time interval than I was on all the things I had accomplished and I was in total frustration  that I could not make judges and police see how dangerous he was, and the reason was though police had been called that day it still boiled down to my word against his as there was no proof of his actions and threats to kill his son, so I too at the time acted out intially like a frustrated lunatic


So to you it may be like a Jerry Springer episode but you  have  not  lived through and know what it is like having to turn over a person who is totally defenseless to someone who has threatened to kill  what you love most and what has become your soul reason for living. It may be years yet down the road before she starts really focusing on herself and find reasons to live beyond that of her child and hopefully she will take advantage of counselling services for battered women to rebuild the self confidence and esteem that beaten out of her and can find reasons for living outside of just for her childs sake. .    

_____________________________

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 9:33:11 AM   
MstrDennynSlave


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		Tell child protective services that your ex is abusive, whether verbally, emotionally, or whatever. They have to protect the LO's. They will request surpervised visits with the ex so the LO's will not be subjected to any type of abuse. Been there done that, and now my daughter is going through the same thing with her ex too. The system does work, give it a chance.

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 1:43:11 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Anyone who has not been in this situation and/or is not sympathetic to someone in this situation should probably just move along. This is a person who needs help, not more persecution.
There are SO many reasons why a woman stays with an abusive man, but mostly, I think, it comes down to hope and love.
Even though there are many agencies, there are not nearly enough resources for everyone to take advantage of them. They are all over-whelmed right now, unfortunately.
OP; my heart goes out to you, and if, someday, you feel that you or your um's life are in jeopardy, if you do need to disappear, then you do what you feel is best.
Get legal advice first though.
*hugs*

~Christina

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 1:59:45 PM   
PronePalabras


Posts: 37
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline 		you know i actually have something to say on this ...i dated a girl a couple months back that had an ex ..whom she left because he beat the crap outa her in illinois ....she has a restraint on him for 1000 yards ....and he is on the sex offender registry here for molesting a 5 year old child ...yet when me and her together tried to get something done about his constant calling ...and showing up where i lived while she was there ...they would do nothing to him i even saved letters he wrote to her telling her that he was going to get me arrested and his sisters were going to "handle" her and nothing done ....so yes sometimes the system does turn a blind eye

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 2:48:19 PM   
EponasChylde


Posts: 65
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Or remember this when it happens to you or someone you love.


Been there and done that. Watched my mother be in an abusive relationship for 9 yrs of my life. I saw him chase her with knifes, beat the shit out of her NIGHTLY, etc. For YEARS I watched this. Then one day, my mom woke up, found a set of balls and told the asshole to get lost. It was rough going for a couple of years, but we made it.

I've been divorced for 5yrs from a potentially abusive husband. He only had to slap me one time. One god-damned time. I was out. We were married less than 5 months when I filed for divorce. No way in fuck I'm going to sit there and let some man hit me...

Don't you dare fucking act like I don't know what I'm talking about. Not after all the times I helped clean blood off my mother's face, clothing, the furniture, etc. Do you know how much a head wound bleeds?A fuck of lot, that's how much. Don't patronize me by assuming my youth equates to ignorance. I've seen this shit first hand, and all a women needs to do to get out is grow a fucking spine.


< Message edited by EponasChylde -- 1/19/2008 2:51:12 PM >

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 4:45:38 PM   
JohnSteed1967


Posts: 304
Joined: 5/29/2005
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline 		Addressing this topic from my personal view. I started in Febuary 2004 with $133 dollars to my name, what I could pack into a 2000 Mitsubhi Mirage, that was being "Looked for" by repo agents.

My Parents we being put into a nursing home, they were selling "The House" and I was unemployed.

Though the grace of God and getting off my ass everday and going to look for a job when I was hurt, scared, broken and empty, I have a good apartment, money in the bank, small retirement fund and my own car.

If I can do that at 36 and newly divorced. Imagine what a woman with children could do with the government programs they have for just such a situation

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 6:18:49 PM   
girlygurl


Posts: 6973
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From: in the palms of His hands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EponasChylde
Been there and done that. Watched my mother be in an abusive relationship for 9 yrs of my life. I saw him chase her with knifes, beat the shit out of her NIGHTLY, etc. For YEARS I watched this. Then one day, my mom woke up, found a set of balls and told the asshole to get lost. It was rough going for a couple of years, but we made it.

I've been divorced for 5yrs from a potentially abusive husband. He only had to slap me one time. One god-damned time. I was out. We were married less than 5 months when I filed for divorce. No way in fuck I'm going to sit there and let some man hit me...

Don't you dare fucking act like I don't know what I'm talking about. Not after all the times I helped clean blood off my mother's face, clothing, the furniture, etc. Do you know how much a head wound bleeds?A fuck of lot, that's how much. Don't patronize me by assuming my youth equates to ignorance. I've seen this shit first hand, and all a women needs to do to get out is grow a fucking spine.



EponasChylde, please help me understand why you were so brutal with your first post on this thread.  If you've lived through such horific times, you know exactly what goes on behind closed doors.  You sound very angry, and who knows, maybe I'd be angry too if I were in your shoes. 

My abusive relationships and the abusive relationships I witnessed as a child haven't made me a bitter or angry person, just a much stronger one.  But, when I hear disrespectful comments about a serious matter, well yea, that pisses me off. 
be well

girly

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 7:14:44 PM   
DisenchantedLife


Posts: 193
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your words.  I do appreciate it.  With the restraining order Children and Families got involved, but apparently they thought he was "ok" to be around the baby.  Maybe I will contact again.  I have video tape of what my lo is like on a "normal" basis and what my lo is like following visitation.  Its not the "visitation" persay that upsets me.  Its the unprotected visitation that upsets me.   Its the long long hours that he takes my LO away.  Sometimes from the time my LO wakes up until the time he goes to bed.  I expected the courts to do what was in his best interest, that is what I expected. 

I keep hearing this BS (no offense) that "babies cry".  My LO didn't.  My lo was a super happy, well adjusted, extremely secure baby that smiled at the drop of a hat.  He might have fussed or whined, but cry?  There wasn't any need.  I'm a sahm and my life has revolved around this lo and I tend to stay on top of things.  He used to communicate just fine with me.  It wasn't hard to read him and things had a flow.  My lo was so easy going and happy that even if he didnt nap well and was exshausted, it made no matter.  Still the same little person.  He wasn't needy.  He didnt need to be held constantly.  Although I do practice attachment parenting and I think that is part of the reason why he was so happy and secure.  Yes, he was babysat randomly and there was never any problems.  I made sure to get done what was needed to be done before I knew he would need me.  He was the most content baby on the planet.  His crying doesn't upset me, I find solutions.  In my mind, there is alway a solution.  There still is.  These days his security is shaken to the core so he needs to be attached to mommy more.  (which means I can only put him down for about 3 sec) I have no problems with giving him what he needs.  It just breaks my heart to see my content infant that was secure enough to go to a stranger in a heartbeat, now cling to my shoulder and look out fearly at anyone that speaks to him.  It takes double everything to bring him out of the emotional disconnectedness and misery he has when he comes home.  Usually by the time I get him to be "ok" or close too again, he has to go.  I know my infant well and I know these visits are taking its toll on him.  My neighbors see it too. 

Maya, thank you for the post.  I will try and keep it in mind.  I will try.  Its extremely difficult when I see how tough it all is on my lo.  It rips me to the core.  I see you can absolutetly understand how I feel.  It is tough and I keep telling myself I need to let my logical side win out over my emotional side.  How is your lo now after the visitation he went through?  Did he do ok? 

Monday I am going to start hitting all of the links and try children and families again.  Thank you all for bringing me up when I was so low, showing me I still have things to be thankful for, and giving me renewed strength to keep fighting.  P.S.  My lawyer has done pretty much diddly squat for me (other then give good and bad advice.. some thats hurt, some thats helped).  Everything that has been done to get the ball going, I have done.  I tend to be a proactive person.

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RE: It makes sense.... - 1/19/2008 8:20:18 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
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quote:

Maya, thank you for the post. I will try and keep it in mind. I will try. Its extremely difficult when I see how tough it all is on my lo. It rips me to the core. I see you can absolutetly understand how I feel. It is tough and I keep telling myself I need to let my logical side win out over my emotional side. How is your lo now after the visitation he went through? Did he do ok?

visitations were harder on me than they were on him then, in some way I would have preferred his father had stayed in his life, because he has a hard time at 14  and 15 years old when he was with his friends  who all had dads involved in their lives even if the lived apart  from the mother, some of the counsellors had suggested the absentee father is the likely cause for him acting out as a teen and result in him getting into all sorts of trouble with the law, basically he was trying to find himself  in what he assumed his father would have been like, it is one of the reasons also the court systems try to keep the father in the childs life even if they are a poor role model,  because the child is growning in say seperate households they do note the difference and the respect other give to each parent so do learn one is not so good  and there as they get older will not wish to emulate that parent, where as with no father figure , they can only guess what is must be like and without negative feedback from other others can 't see the wrong in so  often try emulated what they think the role is of the missing parent in there life, my son growning up heard bit and pieces of what his dad was like so decide to try on the gangsta tough guy role to emulate which landed him in and out of jail and involved with drugs.   
He is now 27 years years old and a father of 2, I left his father when he was 9 months olds,  unlike his father and fathers father, and father before that , he respects  women and will never raise a hand in anger, and he is not a drinker, even though he is now seperated from his second childs mother and has joint custody , both moms are constantly calling him up to take the children which he glady does,  as infants he was the main caregiver of the children and he loves being a parent and is more of the nuturer to those children than the mothers are, when as babies they fussed they handed the baby over to him because they were unable to make the babies calm down and yet an couple minutes in his they instantly relax which added on ways to the moms frustration  and caused some jealously .  I took him away  from the alcoholism and violence so he did not grow up witnessing and viewing it as a part of daily life,   he learned from me, about loving with voilence and  how to stand on his own 2 feet and that he could be a working parent and still make quality time for his children, that having stability is important in raising healthy children.  He went on the wild side as a teen but the birth of his daughter made him realize he did not want her growing up acting like he was, so he put his all into making a good example of himself for his children to follow.  As a parent I am very proud of him and the man he has become,     and I find nothing more pleasing than watching him interact  with his children and seeing the affection/lovr he has with his children. 


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