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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 5:01:09 AM   
kc692


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

?And, it doesn't take a car to call an animal shelter,even from the pay phone when you arrive at YOUR shelter, or to call animal control from there."

Again- all of you are jumping to conclusions based on an admittedly lousy situation.  We haven't heard from any of the people that abandoned their pets and we don't know what they went through.  I'm fully admitting I'm guessing- but none of us have the whole story.

Yes, there are irresponsible people who get pets and then decide that the responsibility of caring for them is beyond them.  These folks can be rich or poor.  While I certainly think these actions are reprehensible, I must admit, I'm a bit surprised by the vitriol shown here.  I wonder if threads on child abuse would generate the same response.  Certainly discussions about sweat shop labor in other countries don't- and I suspect many of you happily purchase goods made in China with child labor.  Is this some effort to feel morally superior to people that have had lots of misery already?

You know- if I were one of these families that lost their house- and I saw the outrage about the pets being abandoned but not about the families losing their homes, I suspect I'd feel like an unwanted, unloved, and undeserving piece of garbage.  Think about the example you're setting for the people that have lost their houses, but haven't abused their pets in the process.  It seems like you're more concerned about the animal's well being than the humans, and that's a bit hard to swallow.  Not everyone has the same value system, and there are a lot of folks being sanctimonius here IMHO.  This smacks of the multimillionaires who will spend tens of thousands on medical care to prolong the life of their pet for a year, but won't donate similar sums to help orphaned children.  I'm sorry, but this values system is really pretty messed up in my book.

Sam 



You stated in another response that people may not have had time to call the shelter for an animal, or that since their landline was cut off, cell phone minutes were too expensive to use, then you said who knew if the people even had a car to take the animal to the shelter, and how could they take an animal to the shelter on the bus.

The reason that you see the vitriol on the animals and the humans not addressed on here, is because the thread is about the animals, not the humans, and we are staying on topic.  Maybe you should start another thread concerning the humans' plight in this. This thread was started about the animals, not the humans, and I am staying on topic.

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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 5:23:39 AM   
Real0ne


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"RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers"

here I thought this was going to be about the ongoing acceptance of the nazification of america.





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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 6:52:51 AM   
Maya2001


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

I'm sorry, but I think the level of vitriol here is way out of whack and shows remarkably little compassion for the families in distress.  Furthermore, what it also shows is a breakdown of our civil services- where is animal control in all this?

Hypothetical-

Family with 2 kids and a dog.  Sheriff shows up and says you have to leave- now.  You can't take the dog with you because they're not allowed in the shelter.  And you can't show back up on the property or you're liable to be arrested.  Your kids are crying, your wife is pissed, and your crying too because you feel like a failure.  What exactly do you do with the dog?  Call somebody?  Odds are your phone's been disconnected and cell phone minutes can be expensive.  Ask the cop to shoot your dog in front of the kids?  You think the kids are going to be happy knowing their dog is dead?  Maybe it's easier to give the kids a fantasy to cling to- that we're just leaving for a little bit, and we'll come back and play with Rover in a few days.

So yeah- it sucks that people don't take care of their animals.  I'm still of the generation that says you take care of your own dog- and I still remember when I came back after sailing for a week and discovered our Newfie pup had died.  (His littermate had a machinery heart murmur- odds are this dog had a bad heart too.)  So crying and pissed off, I dug a hole in the backyard to bury my dog-but it wasn't easy- Newfie's take a big hole.  And I gather these days that you're supposed to bring the corpse in to have the vet take care of it- and they charge you for it.

But this does seem like a breakdown in civil services.  I think it may be a bit much to ask people during an obviously stressful time to take care of their pets, especially if the shelters aren't accepting them.  So I think the people doing the foreclosing should ask if there are animals that need to be dealt with and do so after the family has vacated.  Don't they check on gas and electricity?  Isn't this what we pay taxes for?

Sam


When financial troubles occur it does not happen instantly especially with homeowners, it can be months after a job loss, sickness etc before you get to the stage where eviction occurs, they had plently of time prior to make arrangement for the dog, the fact they destroyed the place before the eviction, shows there level of irresponsibility.

I know what it is like to struggle through with a house during hard times, went thru 5 years of rotating layoffs at a time while I was raising a child alone and also a pet owner, but never would I consider abandoning a pet and letting it suffer no different than I would have done for my  child.

  Currently things are better for me, I have 4 dogs but should my circumstances change where I cannot keep them,(death, illness, accident, loss of income ) everyone of them has a place to go and 3 out of the 4 are special needs dogs.  

So what if their phone was disconnected or if they could not afford the cell phone, there are other means in a worse case senario, if they could not find a shelter to take the dog....... they could have left the dog there skipped one meal for themselves and right away place  an anonymous call using a payphone to report the dog as abandoned, long before it even had a chance to get thirsty  rather just leave it to starve to death, that would have been the humane thing to do,  once a call is left  with the city or pound  ,  then someone would have to respond and investigate and the dog would have not needed to suffer. 

The  senario you gave, cannot even occur with serious legal ramification on the part of law enforcement it simpply will not work the way you described.  

the cops knowing the dog  was left there when they arrived to evict the family would have had to responsibility of contacting animal control for someone to pick up the dog  otherwise they would have been charged with the abandonment, they cannot just go around shooting  a family pet unless it  was a serious danger to the officer, even if it appeared dangerous or meancing the police  would first try to talk to the  owner  and ask them to confine the dog when they come to enter  with the eviction warrant.
 








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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 7:00:39 AM   
LaTigresse


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I am not going to read the link for the same reason I refuse to watch that animal cops show on Animal Planet. The abuse, neglect or mistreatment of innocents is my softest underbelly.

BUT, I am mad that I did not start a thread, most likely in the humour section, with this title. Just cuz motherfucker is my favourite curse word/phrase.


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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 7:40:32 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: lauren0221
The thing is luci (and I not advocating murder here) is that the humans have choices, and the animals do not. That is what makes it unforgiveable. I know it must be awful to lose your home. It does not excuse abandoning your animals.

I see your point and I am just as sickened by any kind of animal abuse as anyone else here.  I just don't think that becoming bloodthirsty toward humans is really a balanced response. 



Something that has always puzzled me is that in our rich, comfy societies, many people feel more compassion towards animals than towards human beings. In the meantime, people are being hacked to death in Kenya, today, and nobody bats an eyelid. It's awful that pets are being abandoned in droves all over the USA because of bad home loans and foreclosures; but to call for the torture and death of their owners is bordering on insane.

If one had to decide between saving a cat/pet pig/dog/geiko/bunny rabbit, and a fellow human being, which creature would we choose, in all objectivity?

Whilst I agree with Aswad that an ideal society ought to strive for harmony by showing respect to all living creatures, I wish to ask him whether he thinks that abattoirs should be closed down. These places torture animals so that shoppers may be provided with nicely packaged meat at the supermarket. Another point I'd like to raise with him is that this 'my belief/your belief' dichotomy only works up to a certain point. When it comes to organising society, we have to find compromises that take into account the general consensus.

Thankfully, so far, the majority has NOT agreed to torture and execute individuals guilty of animal neglect (not that it's acceptable, I reiterate).

OF COURSE it's all wrong, but what's up with the skewed priorities here?!

It's frankly appalling, and luci, it's seldom you and I agree: let's hug.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 1/30/2008 7:53:19 AM >


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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 7:51:25 AM   
MissMorrigan


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Skewed priorities tend to afflict those who made rash assumptions... which you seem to be doing now given that you have stated that those on this thread who felt horrified at the callousness shown towards animal are somehow bleeding hearts that care more for animals than other humans' wellbeing. Why on earth should there be an either for/against option here? It's pefectly possible that people care just as much for their fellow man as they do for other animals they share their environment with. So, as you are an advocate for human welfare, do you volunteer for the red cross in darfur or give your time to inner city youth schemes? And if you would care to turn the tables on me and ask if I do, to the first I would say, "No, but financially support non-profit charities that can offer the skills necessary to do what I can't" and to the latter, "Actually, yes, and have also opened my home for several years looking after children from 4pm until 8pm of parents who could not be bothered or have the time to do it themselves."

If you want to start a new thread regarding people's views on child abusers be my guest, you'll see the same outpouring as you have done on this thread.

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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 7:56:45 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

If you want to start a new thread regarding people's views on child abusers be my guest, you'll see the same outpouring as you have done on this thread.



Are you the cop of the thread, Morrigan? A thread doesn't require we all group bow in our commonality of spirit. People HAVE been calling for callous murder (see Grisworld's relishing in bloodlust), and I never compared animal neglect with UM abuse. We disagree: enjoy it.



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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 8:12:17 AM   
lauren0221


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

If you want to start a new thread regarding people's views on child abusers be my guest, you'll see the same outpouring as you have done on this thread.



Are you the cop of the thread, Morrigan? A thread doesn't require we all group bow in our commonality of spirit. People HAVE been calling for callous murder (see Grisworld's relishing in bloodlust), and I never compared animal neglect with UM abuse. We disagree: enjoy it.




Kitten, agreeing to disagree here. If you had seen some of the animal abuse and neglect that I have, you would probably be echoing Griswold's words. No one is going to actually go out and kill people. What you read was an emotional response to unacceptable and cruel behavior. And compassion for animals does not preclude compassion for humans - animals happen to be the topic here.

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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 8:19:34 AM   
kittinSol


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An emotional response is in no way a correct response. It's an understandable one, but one that has to be questioned and put in perspective. Always.





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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 9:46:41 AM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

An emotional response is in no way a correct response. It's an understandable one, but one that has to be questioned and put in perspective. Always.






I would hope that I *NEVER* arrive at a place in my life where a story like this does NOT elicit an emotional response.

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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 9:57:22 AM   
MissMorrigan


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Retract your claws, it's not attractive. I am one of the persons you aimed your comments at, I am therefore entitled to answer given this is a public platform. You still didn't answer my question put to you in a previous reply, do you seriously think for one lucid moment that Griswold would actually murder the perpetrators of that crime? I don't know him personally, have never chatted with him but I take his comments in the spirit in which they were meant, they were an emotional outpouring, nothing more. How many times have you crossed swords with someone and either blurted out to them 'I hate you!' or had that said to you? Hate is a very strong emotion, seldom meant but used as a term frequently.

And while we are making points, when I last checked ums are still considered human - although I'm sure some parents would debate that, but then, many people would compare others to animals and that I would also have to strongly disagree with. You see, Kitten, not everyone has to agree and it's nice to see others' perspectives, but just as we like to put our points across, we also have to accept that others will not necessarily agree with them.

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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 10:02:36 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

An emotional response is in no way a correct response. It's an understandable one, but one that has to be questioned and put in perspective. Always.






I would hope that I *NEVER* arrive at a place in my life where a story like this does NOT elicit an emotional response.


You missed my point, so forgive me for not having expressed it in a clearer manner. Whilst it's human to feel emotional towards something horrible, we have the capacity to reason our emotions. I simply suggest we apply these reasonning skills full throttle whenever we can. It's a philosophy of life that's as valid as another.

Morrigan, it was another poster who referred to minors; this is the second time I'm telling you.

A bon entendeur, salut.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 1/30/2008 10:12:50 AM >


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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 12:58:40 PM   
samboct


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"Kitten, agreeing to disagree here. If you had seen some of the animal abuse and neglect that I have, you would probably be echoing Griswold's words. No one is going to actually go out and kill people. What you read was an emotional response to unacceptable and cruel behavior. And compassion for animals does not preclude compassion for humans - animals happen to be the topic here."

And I respectfully disagree.  A few points-

1)  No one on this thread has in any way condoned torturing animals.
2)  If this thread were solely about the torture of animals, then I would agree that placing the humans actions in context is irrelevant.  However, it is not.  We are not discussing people in McMansions buying pound animals and torturing or starving them for sport.  That action would indeed be heinous and inexcusable and if Griswolds creativity would have been used for tormenting these fiends, I'd merely have a chuckle and move on.
3)  We are however, discussing the actions of people under a great deal of emotional stress, i.e. losing a house.  I suspect the people that are happy about this situation are few in number.
4)  The newspaper extrapolated from the actions of a single enraged individual or family who trashed their house and abandoned a pit bull and tarred an entire brush of people- i.e. people who lose their houses are more likely to torture or abandon animals.  From my perspective this is an attempt to dehumanize these people and deflect blame for why these folks are now homeless.  Let me point out that abandoning animals is not the sole province of people losing their homes, there are plenty of folks who still own property who dump boxes of kittens on the highway or lock puppies in the trunk.  Or maybe this is a common action of people losing their house- its just now with so many people losing their house, it's become overwhelming.
5)  We don't know why people took the actions that they did and I will point out that the reporter did damn all to find out.  This has all the hallmarks of a sensationalist story intended to inflame an emotional response, and from that perspective, it's done a great job.  There are however, a number of unanswered questions which I have tried to point out.  Let me throw out a possibility.  What if the family upon vacating their house, called animal control and got told that someone would be out later that day and not to worry, Rover would be taken care of.  Clearly this isn't irresponsible, but the fact that Rover's left to starve is a breakdown in social services.  Do you know for certain that that didn't happen?
6)  There seems to be a tarring and feathering party going on in this thread- that if you are not as appalled as some individuals by the actions of these now homeless people you become a callous inhuman monster yourself.  It's not pretty.  It's also exactly what the reporter was hoping to stir up.

Sam

< Message edited by samboct -- 1/30/2008 1:17:10 PM >

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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 3:52:10 PM   
GreedyTop


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quote:


5)  We don't know why people took the actions that they did and I will point out that the reporter did damn all to find out.  This has all the hallmarks of a sensationalist story intended to inflame an emotional response, and from that perspective, it's done a great job.  There are however, a number of unanswered questions which I have tried to point out.  Let me throw out a possibility.  What if the family upon vacating their house, called animal control and got told that someone would be out later that day and not to worry, Rover would be taken care of.  Clearly this isn't irresponsible, but the fact that Rover's left to starve is a breakdown in social services.  Do you know for certain that that didn't happen?
6)  There seems to be a tarring and feathering party going on in this thread- that if you are not as appalled as some individuals by the actions of these now homeless people you become a callous inhuman monster yourself.  It's not pretty.  It's also exactly what the reporter was hoping to stir up.

Sam


Somehow, I sincerely doubt that people who are willing to spitefully destroy the property they are leaving (under whatEVER circumstances) are likely to call animal control and say, oh, by the way, we locked our dog into a bedroom without food and water.

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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 4:39:27 PM   
samboct


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Hmm, guess I wasn't clear-

I'm not interested in the family that messed up their house before moving on- I'm guessing they're pretty pissed off.  However, the article also mentioned that there's been a large increase in the number of abandoned pets that's related to the increase in foreclosures-hence my question- is this the pet owners being irresponsible or a breakdown in communications/services?  Interviews with a few pet owners should clear this up quickly.

Sam

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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 4:42:28 PM   
slaveluci


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
OF COURSE it's all wrong, but what's up with the skewed priorities here?!
It's frankly appalling, and luci, it's seldom you and I agree: let's hug.

Of course (there's no "hug" emoticon so this was the closest thing).  I too think the skewed priorities are the wild thing about this thread.  As I've said and said, it was terrible and wrong.  But to punish animal abusers by becoming bloodthirsty killers of humans just seems a bit out of whack.  That's all I'm sayin'.............luci

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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 4:50:42 PM   
BBWnNC72


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After reading the OP link, i cried, looked at my cats and thought, no matter how stressed my money or what ever has ever gotten in all my life, i have NEVER just left an animal.  There is NO reason for it, there is always somewhere to take the poor thing. They are family members, i would no sooner leave my pet then i would my child. 
When my ex and i lost our home, i moved across country by car with my three children and our two cats, i never once thought of leaving my cats even when one pissed on a cloth duffel full of clothes!
Now the kids, that is a different story! lol, just kidding on that one.

editied to add that it was one of the cats and not one of the kids who pissed!

< Message edited by BBWnNC72 -- 1/30/2008 5:01:01 PM >


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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 4:53:39 PM   
lauren0221


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Hmm, guess I wasn't clear-

I'm not interested in the family that messed up their house before moving on- I'm guessing they're pretty pissed off.  However, the article also mentioned that there's been a large increase in the number of abandoned pets that's related to the increase in foreclosures-hence my question- is this the pet owners being irresponsible or a breakdown in communications/services?  Interviews with a few pet owners should clear this up quickly.

Sam


In my job, I have to make sure things get done. Just because I ask someone to do something, does not mean it happens. I don't assume, I follow up to make sure it does. And this is just daily work stuff.

When there is a living being involved, you don't just hope that someone else is taking care of them. You make sure. We're not talking about a piece of furniture here, or a spreadsheet - it's an animal that is completely dependent on you. Yes, breakdowns in communication happen. They are very easily remedied by follow up.

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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 5:02:31 PM   
GreedyTop


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to those who keep harping on the 'bloodthirsty' responses:

As has been pointed out SEVERAL times so far...

NOBODY IS ADVOCATING ACTUALLY GOING OUT AND KILLING ANY HUMANS!!

The  statements are an expression of outrage and feelings of being helpless to save these animals!  FRUSTRATION.  ANGER.

While I might say I'd love to cut my ex's balls off and shove them down his throat, that does not mean I ACTUALLY would do it, or condone having it done!

sheesh.

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RE: Sick, fucked up Motherfuckers - 1/30/2008 5:08:32 PM   
slaveluci


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No need to sound so exasperated.  I understand that people probably aren't actually going to go out and really kill these offenders.  I get that.  I'm saying that I think it's telling that somebody would express their frustration about murdered/abused/etc. animals by saying the same should be done to humans.  I was never in genuine fear that anyone here was actually going to go DO anything about it.  I just expressed my consternation that they would SAY such ugly, horrid things should be done to other humans who had hurt animals.  Again, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.  Animal abusers are sick, messed up people for sure.  However, torturing humans who torture animals doesn't make a lot of sense.  And being so "frustrated" about this thread that you'd even express that it's a good idea just seems a bit "skewed" to me (as kittensol said)...........luci 

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