RealityLicks
Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
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Hi LE, the issue of the day is stop and search, the relation of that to female genital mutilation is quite illustrative of the modes of thinking that can cause problems but if I can remember, I'll return to that!
I just want to say first that this is only on the agenda because of some recent murders (of white men by whites, incidentally) in the first case by someone who was out on parole and in the second, in an ongoing neighbour dispute. Both matters that the police and criminal justice system could have handled better, both the cause of outrage by the more bellicose elements of teh nation's press.
So. The politicians need to show they are "tough on crime". They need a scapegoat which will animate media interest in another area, preferably one which is a soft target. "Let's see now... we could pick the Muslims and their forced marriages shit but the Sun/Mail Axis of Indignation hasn't been sufficiently primed yet. I know, how about black teenagers? Perfect! They're too young to vote, don't have lobbyists or specialist pressure groups on standby... the police like it because it romantically portrays them as victims of bureacracy but most importantly, for the vast majority, it will change nothing."
It just curtails the civil liberties of a minority. That's all. Remember, the police were required to complete these forms only because report after report demonstrated that stop and search was being used unfairly - and it still is.
Stops don't achieve anything. And if we have a police officer serving who genuinely believes someone is armed and in commission of an offence but fails to act because they'll have paperwork to do afterward , then we don't need that officer.
Remember that copper who got out on bail and then promptly murdered his wife and mother-in-law? All sorts of people commit crimes. Attacks are not limited to black youths - but the hysteria being whipped up has people everywhere believing that, in complete violation of the evidence of their eyes. That if they allow the police to violate this groups' rights they are somehow "doing something".
This mad desire to "do something" when a moments inquiry shows that murders and violent attacks are happening all the time and everywhere, from rich white suburbia to your own local High Street.
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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
This is one of the problems though RL; Parliament makes laws to forbid certain practices, the state apparatus then does two main things;
a) instructions to police, health, child protection, school authorities etc to look out for and action suspected offences
b) information campaigns aimed at educating those who might be at risk and those who do not understand that cultural practices have been made illegal
In both cases - because for all their faults theyre no longer so stupid as to try otherwise - people are brought in to deal with them who are from the communities concerned, both to action and to advise. So its no good to say that we ignorant whites are doing it all wrong. At the strategic level, everything is done as well as it might be.
I didn't say that. I suggested that maybe proceeding with caution was wiser.
Incidentally, I know two fairly senior social workers and several teachers who are black and female. They are quite over-worked but concerns over being charged with racism, as you suggest below, ranks fairly low on their priorities.
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But then in both cases it more often than not fails at the tactical level, because the police, health, child protection and school authorities are quite frankly afraid to get involved and risk being labelled "racist" or some such. Put yourself in the shoes of an employee in one of these services - would you risk your job, your reputation, your personal safety, your security and your family for doing something even if the evidence of wrongdoing was clear?
You still need testimony, in court. A handful of successful prosecutions will drive the practise further underground and victims will be evn more reluctant to identify their parents as culprits. It's perhaps more an education issue than a law and order one.
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What we are talking about is allowing young women to be mutilated, kidnapped and effectively sold, and severely beaten if not killed should they object or resist - 300 girls go missing from Bradford school rolls every year; thats just one city. These are not valid cultural differences but crimes -
Aren't you mixing two issues together, gen. mutilation and forced marriage? I thought they were quite distinct and located in different communities?
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My view is that we need to backtrack, and quickly, from the multi cultural model we have built, under which "anything is OK".
E
I'm not certain these issues are a result of promoting a multi-cultural agenda. Existing modes of tolerance and validation of new communities which have been a part of Britain's culture at least since the Huguenots came and probably before have simply created the place we live in now, with all its faults and inconsistencies. I think people have simply evolved from the "days of yore" - which never existed anyway - in quite a natural way, with change coming much more slowly and piecemeal than you imagine. Don't be so paranoid. Multi-culturalism - that old shibboleth - was just the Canadians' way of reconciling themselves to having displaced native people in North America. You don't just go out, conquer loads of countries, then when you get knackered, close the door on the world and say you aren't playing anymore.
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RE: Stop and Search (UK) - 
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