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RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 8:46:55 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch
there does seem to a lot people who follow the 'what i call tough love but actual borders on just being rude but since i can call it tough love and have friends on this board i can get away with it' mentality.

You are preoccupied with people not being rude, instead of focused on whether what people say is true.  I could have pulled other quotes of yours in this thread, and others, to provide further backing to my point.  I am genuinely sorry for the events you described from your past.  However, it is still more important for someone to call a spade a spade than to be all tiptoe-y and polite.

Think of it this way.  What's the most common form of sexual-abuse enabling?  Adults who look the other way.  Wouldn't it be better if more people said, "This shit's fucked up!" instead of sweating about the most diplomatic way to approach the subject, well gee I don't really know, so I guess I won't say anything.

(in reply to fluffyswitch)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 8:47:43 AM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch


i guess i didn't realize that they're mutually exclusive concepts. i'll keep that in mind.




         If you can only see it as a black and white issue, we aren't going to communicate very well, Fluffy.  Doesn't it seem logical that a kink site's line of tolerance will lie towards a darker shade of grey?


i think we're talking past each other--since what i am suggesting is a shade of grey, but am in turn reading your post as suggesting either/or.


_____________________________


“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” churchill

the first rule of fluff club is that you don't talk about fluff club!

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 8:48:09 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Its obvious that some name calling is tolerated here by the Mods, even thuogh its disrespectful and against TOS. Seems some have a pass and others dont.


It's all in how you say it.  And how often it is said to a particular person.  At least that is my impression from what I've seen going on.


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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 8:48:39 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOL, normally I would enjoy this sort of repartee, and wade into this motherfucker with both feet but in deference to 11 and all the hurt feelings around here I am going to keep on topic for the most part.

Thanks for the opportunity, cloudboy,  I do take away alot of meaning from opposing views and discourses not related directly to the views expoused or invited by the OPs of the world  (ALL my OPs end up in polls and random stupidity no matter how insightful they are because the fundamental tenets are going to be enumerated with some humor in them, and a who really fucking cares attitude).

But I can understand the frustration of trying to discourse on a certain set of points, hell, you guys want as close to a free for all as it comes here, go comment on political threads (although TOS is demanded there as well).

I will say, that whether  you  love or hate Goreans.....doesn't seem like there is alotta in betwixt there..........they often will say excuse me, it brings up something and start another thread, so as not to get a thread too out of round, all on thier own.  They got that going for them, and believe me, they can argue cogently, mordantly and till hell won't have it. Nobody gets hurt feelings there, they just wanna kill a bunch of motherfuckers............LOL......I drift.

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 8:50:56 AM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch
there does seem to a lot people who follow the 'what i call tough love but actual borders on just being rude but since i can call it tough love and have friends on this board i can get away with it' mentality.

You are preoccupied with people not being rude, instead of focused on whether what people say is true.  I could have pulled other quotes of yours in this thread, and others, to provide further backing to my point.  I am genuinely sorry for the events you described from your past.  However, it is still more important for someone to call a spade a spade than to be all tiptoe-y and polite.

Think of it this way.  What's the most common form of sexual-abuse enabling?  Adults who look the other way.  Wouldn't it be better if more people said, "This shit's fucked up!" instead of sweating about the most diplomatic way to approach the subject, well gee I don't really know, so I guess I won't say anything.



we're more on the same page than i think you are aware. being able to frame a debate in ways that allow for discourse that is truthful while not being rude is not the same thing as tiptoeing around a subject.

for example--you evoke dworkin. dworkin's work is still (for the most part) respectful without tiptoeing around anything. you can call a spade a spade without being ridiculousy rude about it.

one of my professors talked about this conference where the grad students had exceptionally flawed data--obviously so. most people said i'm sorry but your data is flawed. this other guy stood up and said you idiots how dare you walk in here and talk about this when you're data is obviously flawed. both say the same thing but the first creates a much calmer environment all the way around.


< Message edited by fluffyswitch -- 2/2/2008 8:54:05 AM >

_____________________________


“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” churchill

the first rule of fluff club is that you don't talk about fluff club!

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 9:09:18 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		You might want to read up on Dworkinist tactics...screaming 'Rapist!!' at the top of one's lungs because someone is reading Playboy in public may not be your idea of rude, but it makes your claim that people here are being rude by disagreeing rather silly.

(in reply to fluffyswitch)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 9:10:53 AM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

You might want to read up on Dworkinist tactics...screaming 'Rapist!!' at the top of one's lungs because someone is reading Playboy in public may not be your idea of rude, but it makes your claim that people here are being rude by disagreeing rather silly.


perhaps. i was refering to her written work more than her tactics. personally i can't stand dworkin. 

either way i think we're talking in circles...


_____________________________


“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” churchill

the first rule of fluff club is that you don't talk about fluff club!

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 9:30:30 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		That seems like the whole point of the thread, innit?

And Dworkin raised very important issues, and her choice of delivery was certainly within the parameters of a free country...albeit rude.

(in reply to fluffyswitch)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 9:34:45 AM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

That seems like the whole point of the thread, innit?

And Dworkin raised very important issues, and her choice of delivery was certainly within the parameters of a free country...albeit rude.


oh she definitely did and i suppose she had the right (cringe, i know what i just argued for lol). i just have some serious issues with her theory especially when she got together with Mackinnon...but then she's got the publications and all i've got is an undergrad thesis on a disk and a paper i still haven't written on bondage pornography for march.


_____________________________


“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” churchill

the first rule of fluff club is that you don't talk about fluff club!

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 9:39:18 AM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I wonder who is complaining? Is the board loaded with crybabies that message a moderator when the discussion on their thread is not going the way they want?


This isn't about every thread hijacking on the board-if you'd read the notice in Adminstration Annoucements you'd see 

It is about  just a certain  number of hijackings done for the sole purpose of screwing up the thread
making fun of it and the OP and or getting the thread pulled.

If every thread you started became a target for: this is all in fun- grow thicker skin- yadda yadda yadda BS and perhaps even a couple of your threads  were pulled because of these "playful" actions would you not get pretty dam annoyed? Not just one thread you start but pretty much every single one.

I saw it happening and I'm sure others and Mod's saw it happening numerous times to the same person that is probably when Mod1X placed the "Thread Hijacking"
annoucement.



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A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 9:41:49 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch
both say the same thing but the first creates a much calmer environment all the way around.

In my second post on this thread, I called someone a fucking liar.  I didn't use those exact words, but there was no possible way to misunderstand my point.  Up until that point, everyone was being supercareful.  Afterward, people started saying what was on their minds, and one person in particular wrote a fantastic post.  Someone has to be willing to say what is really going on.

"Calm debate" is for people who would rather hide than deal. Two weeks ago, I got a call from a friend of mine who used to be a cutter.  Something bad happened in her life, and she started the call with, "I really really want to cut."  We talked for over two hours.  The next day she told me she would have cut if it wasn't for me.  Not once during that entire call did I tell her "There, there, it's going to be ok."  I did, among many other things, tell her to stop feeling so fucking sorry for herself -- using those exact words.  If people want cutsie-wootsie, they shouldn't talk to me.  If they want help solving a problem, I'm pretty good at that.

It is absolutely 100% fine with me if people are insulting, as long as they are correct.  I had an email exchange on the other side two days ago with a female Ph.D., in which I told her that she was being pompous in the way she used words.  She responded by saying I was correct in every single point I raised. 

Serious people think honesty and directness is more important than social varnish.  I could give you example after example of this, but I am going to stop now, so I hope you get the point.  If you don't, then perhaps you are more interested in self-defense than personal growth.

< Message edited by RedMagic1 -- 2/2/2008 9:43:35 AM >

(in reply to fluffyswitch)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 9:46:26 AM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch
both say the same thing but the first creates a much calmer environment all the way around.

In my second post on this thread, I called someone a fucking liar.  I didn't use those exact words, but there was no possible way to misunderstand my point.  Up until that point, everyone was being supercareful.  Afterward, people started saying what was on their minds, and one person in particular wrote a fantastic post.  Someone has to be willing to say what is really going on.

"Calm debate" is for people who would rather hide than deal. Two weeks ago, I got a call from a friend of mine who used to be a cutter.  Something bad happened in her life, and she started the call with, "I really really want to cut."  We talked for over two hours.  The next day she told me she would have cut if it wasn't for me.  Not once during that entire call did I tell her "There, there, it's going to be ok."  I did, among many other things, tell her to stop feeling so fucking sorry for herself -- using those exact words.  If people want cutsie-wootsie, they shouldn't talk to me.  If they want help solving a problem, I'm pretty good at that.

It is absolutely 100% fine with me if people are insulting, as long as they are correct.  I had an email exchange on the other side two days ago with a female Ph.D., in which I told her that she was being pompous in the way she used words.  She responded by saying I was correct in every single point I raised. 

Serious people think honesty and directness is more important than social varnish.  I could give you example after example of this, but I am going to stop now, so I hope you get the point.  If you don't, then perhaps you are more interested in self-defense than personal growth.


no i think you are correct i think we are just sitting in different places of the debate is all, as well as things being lost in translation. which is fine. to each his own.


_____________________________


“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” churchill

the first rule of fluff club is that you don't talk about fluff club!

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 9:47:57 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

If  your psyche is being drilled by the typed words of whoremongers, drunks and ne'er- do-wells, you need to seek professional help.


I am in complete agreement.

quote:

Now, briefly aside; terrorize? bully?  Jesus, do something else beside run around on explicitly anonymous boards and being offended, for fucks sake.  Stop to consider that when you say blatantly stupid shit in the real world, blatantly uncaring motherfuckers are gonna laugh right in your goddamn face, same as here.


Amen



Ditto. Brilliant, Ron. No one who is supposed to will get it though, tragically.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 9:56:01 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch
both say the same thing but the first creates a much calmer environment all the way around.

I did, among many other things, tell her to stop feeling so fucking sorry for herself -- using those exact words. 


Just so we're clear, if you ever use this tact with me, I will hunt you down and not in a good way!

Look most everyone that's rational here pretty much agrees that we're not qualified therapists for everyone on the internet and we cannot provide the validation for those that cannot give it to themselves.  Additionally sometimes what the hell are you smoking how can you even ask that question IS the appropriate response, although rarely.

With regard to thread hijacking the administrative announcement makes it pretty clear it isn't saying hey red great new pics and I'm sorry to hear about the job (sorry I'm way late on that, damn work is interfering with my internet time) in passing.  It's purposefully hijacking when you don't like the poster or thread.  What I do question is this, is it possible to hijack the 10th thread that says "all salve (sic) feet should be beat"?    (it's a joke by the way).

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 2/2/2008 10:07:50 AM >

_____________________________

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When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 9:58:05 AM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, there appears to be a lot of "not getting it" going around.  If you want to see someone who does get it, please read swtnsparkling's last post in this thread.

XI


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This mod goes to eleven.

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Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 10:01:34 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail




I would have to think that a different view will be tolerated (the announcement gives some acknowledgement and leniency towards 'drift'.)  I have actually been intimately involved in a couple of situations in which 11 has shown great understanding and discretion.  11 has the persona to  uphold  here as the Designated Annihilator..........how else do you keep 200k+ jackasses in line without a theme and a message?

I think everybody is overreading into this.  But it seems to be time to keep the clam chowder recipies in the recipe thread and not in the what grease does mistress use on her dildo thread.  I would not look to invite the wrath of Khan upon myself for the next few weeks.

You pretty much know if you been naughty or nice, and if done with a good heart, you may be home free, but everyone takes the risk of having the boom lowered regardless of intentions.

Ron



But, that, to me, is the biggest problem here, the discernment of intention. There are so many times when things that take a humorous turn in a thread, with all good intentions, when people rush in to take offense, when none was meant.

That is the inherent problem with internet communications, whether it is email, IM or public posting on a forum. NO ONE,  including Moderators, can know the intentions of a poster, they make a subjective decision based on their own inner dialogue and whether or not they like what the poster had to say.

I cannot tell you how many times someone thought I said something mean but others wrote me to say that was funny or nice, on the same post!!

The bottom line is this: if you are not the owner of the site, you have to behave yourself if you are on the radar of the Mods. Some people post in a veiled way which gets them under the radar and others post more succinctly, I believe those people get flagged more, not because they have bad intent, but because their writing style lends itself to being noticed more.

I am very new to posting publically on any forum, this is actually my first one, so this has all been an interesting learning process to me on allowable speech and restrictions and trying to think about how to present something before posting.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 10:09:20 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

quote:

I wonder who is complaining? Is the board loaded with crybabies that message a moderator when the discussion on their thread is not going the way they want?


This isn't about every thread hijacking on the board-if you'd read the notice in Adminstration Annoucements you'd see 

It is about  just a certain  number of hijackings done for the sole purpose of screwing up the thread
making fun of it and the OP and or getting the thread pulled.

If every thread you started became a target for: this is all in fun- grow thicker skin- yadda yadda yadda BS and perhaps even a couple of your threads  were pulled because of these "playful" actions would you not get pretty dam annoyed? Not just one thread you start but pretty much every single one.

I saw it happening and I'm sure others and Mod's saw it happening numerous times to the same person that is probably when Mod1X placed the "Thread Hijacking"
annoucement.




QFT

I'm actually surprised anyone thinks it takes a complaint for the mods to see anything.  It's not really about the way a posts swerve, it's the full on, .letstakethepissandderailthethreadsopeoplecantbebotheredtopostonit.  No ones worried about the pissy little comments and debates or disagreements, its the full on witch hunts that suck and waste my time reading them.  I don't really care whos arguing with who, but when it infects my reading matter and my time to sort through the crap from the good comments, it involve me.  So yeah, I'll support the mods and I will report a post - I don't give a shit who knows it.  I'm not running to a mod, I'm cleaning my windscreen of poop so I can watch the real world go by.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to swtnsparkling)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 10:09:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		sexyred1: And I remember my first posts to you, and you thought I was an unsufferable asshole, and now you agree with me more often than not.

Mod 11:  since I have O posted many posts (other than Gorean) and they all ended up in random stupidity, I hear you and am not moved about the fairdealing of this thing, but as you know, will not try to purposely violate the spirit of the thing, and will in fact support it.

So, the idea here is to let everybody get a word in edgewise.

Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 10:12:06 AM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		People learn from example so maybe some threads considered hijacks could be given to direct those who are unsure what counts as a hijack? Unless you were there you arn't going to understand the background to this. Thus future mistakes will be made by people unaware of the situation. Most rules are easy to follow because they are specific. This one seems not so easy to define in the traditional way.

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えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

(in reply to ModeratorEleven)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Thread Hijacking - 2/2/2008 10:12:32 AM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Of course, sometimes it's quite obvious when a hijacking is occuring, but looking at some of the OPs in those cases, may lead one to ask, what's worse, the stupid fucking OP/question/statement, or the stupid fucking responses (my own included)?


If you think the OP's thread is stupid, why respond at all? It's not getting in your way or bothering you. You can just ignore it. Do you laugh in people's faces in real life, especially people you don't know, when they say something stupid (and we all say something stupid at one time or another)?

I remember something my parents used to tell me, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

Edited to add: At my last job there was a directive that we must at all times treat all people with dignity and respect. I try to maintain that directive in my private life as well. I confess that at times I have slipped, but if I realize it, I will apologize.

< Message edited by SubbieOnWheels -- 2/2/2008 10:15:48 AM >

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Bethical
Beat me, strike me, take away my reindeer! I'll never tell! -- Walt Kelly, Pogo Possum
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(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 200
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