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RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/5/2008 6:41:12 PM

TracyTaken

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quote:

sometimes that's all the second income is used for, and if that's the case then i think those parents should be more worried about proper discipline than they are about giving in - just my opinion).

Proper discipline has more to do with having an example to follow than smacking a kid (my opinion). Self-discipline isn't modeled by somebody smacking somebody else. It is modeled by the display of self-discipline. Maybe that should be trait number one to look for in a Dom.

(in reply to kuriousreturns)

Post #: 81

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/6/2008 6:37:48 AM

kuriousreturns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

Proper discipline has more to do with having an example to follow than smacking a kid (my opinion). Self-discipline isn't modeled by somebody smacking somebody else. It is modeled by the display of self-discipline. Maybe that should be trait number one to look for in a Dom.

i've gone back over all my previous posts to clarify - not one time have i said anything about smacking someone around or behaving in any violent manner. i simply stated that discipline is not the same today as it was years ago; that it is more about punishment nowadays as opposed to discipline.

There is a distinct difference between discipline and punishment; as you stated, discipline is taught (in part) by setting an example of good behavior. But more importantly (in my opinion) discipline consists of correcting poor behavior (such as paying for a broken window from one's allowance or working off the payment by doing chores); whereas punishment consists of a physical consequence such as spanking, grounding, taking away privileges (and yes, there are those who choose a higher degree of physical violence).

In my opinion, smacking someone around is NOT discipline; it is corporal punishment, which is something that i do NOT condone. What i DO condone is a combination of discipline (setting a good example for starters, and retribution for misbehavior - such as paying for the broken window or scrubbing/painting the fence that was vandalized) AND punishment (such as taking away the baseball that broke the window, or taking away the cell phone/video game/cd player that is interfering with completing homework and chores).

Discipline ALSO includes structure; the expectation of coming home after school and doing homework and chores BEFORE you talk on the cell phone, play the video game, or go hang out with friends; the expectation that you will be in bed at a set time and will not sneak out after hours; designating specific activities which do (and do not) meet parents' approval along with any conditions that go along with them (you can go to kimberly's house, but you need to call and request permission before going anywhere else; you cannot go out after 9pm curfew, and if you sneak out there will be consequences).

This should go hand in hand with reinforcement (you went to the mall without calling for permission as instructed, therefore you will not be allowed to visit kimberly the next time you want to go to her house; you snuck out after curfew and as a consequence you were brought home by a police officer - you will also face the consequence of being grounded for a week). Good behavior should also be reinforced such as "Good job on your test" or "thank you for calling; yes you may go to the mall for one hour, and i expect you home in time for dinner".

If i'm not mistaken, this is all very similar to what i remember seeing/hearing as a child when i watched Brady Bunch, The Waltons, the show that had Opie (what was the name of that one?) and so forth. Again if i'm not mistaken, this is also very similar to the structure of many D/s relationships. Does anybody disagree?

It seems to me that things are very different now; parents pay for their child(ren)s misbehavior (such as using grocery funds to replace damaged property, or sitting in a courtroom being lectured by a judge because their child(ren) broke the law, and now the parents have to pay the fine). Instead of doing community service, the child(ren) sit in juvenile hall - what good does that do? It's not much different for adults; they receive a fine that gets paid to the city/county and sit in jail or are on probation for awhile - but they don't have to pay the property owner through monetary retribution or community service. Where is the structure, the discipline, the good example that should have been set for these children AND adults (the latter of which probably didn't receive any of this when THEY were children). How can behavior be monitored and enforced, and how does the child(ren) SEE an example, if both parents are away at work and the child(ren) are left to their own free will?

< Message edited by kuriousreturns -- 2/6/2008 6:59:34 AM >

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Post #: 82

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/6/2008 7:04:47 AM

AquaticSub

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~Fast Reply to no one in particular~

Something occured to me the other day.... exactly whose 50s lifestyle are we talking about? Standard white guy with a wife and 2.5 kids or an African-American 50s lifestyle?

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Post #: 83

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/6/2008 7:20:43 AM

Dnomyar

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I grew up in a mixed neighboorhood. It applys to both.

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RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/6/2008 7:22:20 AM

mnottertail

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RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/6/2008 7:28:38 AM

Jeffff

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I want to live in a 40's household......Rosie the riveter works, and I am off fucking hot Italian sluts ... all they want are nylons and candy bars.

George S, Patton

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Post #: 86

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/6/2008 7:34:33 AM

TracyTaken

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kuriousreturns

i've gone back over all my previous posts to clarify - not one time have i said anything about smacking someone around

I said "smacking" not "smacking around" and was referring to your posting as a proponent of "spare the rod, spoil ..." thinking. But, I suspect we are skating on thin ice with the whole UM thing, so let's drop it before a moderator smacks us both.

quote:

There is a distinct difference between discipline and punishment; as you stated, discipline is taught (in part) by setting an example of good behavior. But more importantly (in my opinion) discipline consists of correcting poor behavior (such as paying for a broken window

I did not break the friggin' window! We took it out because it's difficult to get a correct rough in on the old pulley and weight kind without taking it out. Best not talk about the window; it's a sore spot right now.

quote:

from one's allowance or working off the payment by doing chores); whereas punishment consists of a physical consequence such as spanking, grounding, taking away privileges (and yes, there are those who choose a higher degree of physical violence).

In my opinion, smacking someone around is NOT discipline; it is corporal punishment, which is something that i do NOT condone.

Okay, but by definition, spanking is corporal punishment.

quote:

What i DO condone is a combination of discipline (setting a good example for starters, and retribution for misbehavior - such as paying for the broken window

Again with the window! I'm not going to talk to you anymore if you keep bringing up the window.

quote:

If i'm not mistaken, this is all very similar to what i remember seeing/hearing as a child when i watched Brady Bunch, The Waltons, the show that had Opie (what was the name of that one?) and so forth.

The Andy Griffith show.

quote:

Again if i'm not mistaken, this is also very similar to the structure of many D/s relationships. Does anybody disagree?

It is not similar to the structure of mine because we are both adults, and I endeavor to make life easier for him. What you describe is a load of work. It does not sound very pleasant for the Dom, who would be reduced to the position of nanny. It is pretty rare that he even smacks me for doing something that displeases him (and it's usually something really brainless), and then it's more him blowing off steam than what you describe as discipline. And for me, his displeasure is punishment plenty. I really love it when he's pleased as punch with me.

That's what I shoot for anyway, but I'm a person to with ideas and wants of my own, so it's a struggle. That's what I really related to in your post, the idea of questioning one's own submissiveness.

(in reply to kuriousreturns)

Post #: 87

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/6/2008 7:36:10 AM

sexyred1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I want to live in a 40's household......Rosie the riveter works, and I am off fucking hot Italian sluts ... all they want are nylons and candy bars.

George S, Patton

I also want to live in a 40's household...but in the film noir version. That way I can slink around in lingerie and seduce guys into killing my husband so I can get the insurance money and hope the little insurance investigator does not figure it out and throw my new lover in jail after I am killed in a car accident.

Sexyred and the Postman.

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Post #: 88

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/6/2008 7:42:55 AM

SubbieOnWheels

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kuriousreturns -

Wow -- just -- WOW!

You described to a T the household I grew up in. In addition, we very often didn't even THINK about being undisciplined in our lives or about being disobedient. It was simply the way we did things. We had excellent examples in our parents. Our dad was so honest and ethical he squeaked (not literally, but he was well known for his integrity). Our mother kept the home in apple-pie order (with the assistance of four children doing chores) and delicious, nutritious meals on the table, while also being active in the community.

Yes, the necessity of having a second income makes things different somewhat, but the example of self-discipline shown by the parents, and their encouragement and enforcement of self-discipline in their children, will go a long way toward producing self-disciplined adults in the future.

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RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/6/2008 10:13:28 AM

Missokyst

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It always floors me that people assume the children of single parents, or households where both parents work, are undisciplined. I have worked since I was 14, did the two parent household thing until my ex husband found religion and we parted ways. Then I worked and did the single parent thing since my ex also didn't think child support was necessary. I could take my 3 kids anywhere, the opera, the theater, out to a nice restaurant, and they were always well behaved. They are adults now and are still the well mannered children I brought them up to be. Amazingly, it can be done even if you work! I have 2 college grads, and one boy in the navy. I am a proud mom and I was a darned good one.
It did not take a 50's style household to accomplish raising a decent family. It took communication, determination, and a lot of hard work. I would do it again in a heartbeat.
Personally, I thought the 50's were too repressed.
Kyst

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Post #: 90

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/6/2008 10:25:23 AM

camille65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kuriousreturns

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

If you want to know what it was really like, go read some books about the time period. Hint: It wasn't what people refer to here as "50s lifestyle"

Please enlighten me with an explanation of what people DO mean here when referring to "50's lifestyle"

Okies I admit to some whopping confusion here.The OP is asking about those that live by the Fifties Lifestyle which to me has been, and always will be different from actual life in the 1950's. To me the former is an idealized style of living, taking the best from that era and using it within a power exchange during this current day and age. That is why I suggested the references of Taken In Hand, and Domestic Discipline. Neither of those are about sleeping in separate beds or naming a kid Beaver. Instead it is about having the male, the head of the household with all that implies.The HOH has all the decision making powers and it is up to that person whether or not they delegate them. Another type of 50's Lifestyle is one not as common to me, but one that I have spoken with those that identify in their view. Poodle skirts and leather jackets. That one as far as I have been able to determine has no power exchange involved. Why this has turned into a thing about two parents vs one parent *shrug* I don't get. I've always enjoyed the idea of bowing to the HOH and the rules of engagement that follow.

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Post #: 91

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/6/2008 4:44:24 PM

proudsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kuriousreturns

i would like to learn more about traditional or 50's style relationships; what exactly do these terms mean? What are the personality traits and character roles involved in this type of relationship? Where might i be able to find more information?

I grew up in the 50's.

My mother didn't work outside the house but did do a lot of volunteer work. She took care of all household chores and yard work, except for the chores that us kids were responsible for. With much less automation than now the chores and cooking took most of the day--hanging laundry to dry, ironing sheets and most clothes, no microwaves, baking from scratch, etc.

Like others said, dinner was served at 6 every night and if you weren't there you didn't eat. We were taught good table manners and were banned to the kitchen if we used bad manners. We actually sat at the table and talked to each other as a family. No phone calls were allowed during meals. The kids did the dishes. We ate at home almost every night, seldom went out and definitely no fast food. Sunday dinner was always at my grandmothers. Kids were actually disciplined in those days, including spankings. Almost everyone in our community went to church on Sunday. Weekends were family time--visiting relatives or taking short car trips.

In the evenings we played games together as a family (no TV until I was about 12) or did homework. After school we did our chores then played on the street corners with other kids in the neighborhood or went to friend's houses and just walked in, no one locked their doors. Parents trusted their kids to stay out of trouble.

My father was definitely in charge and made all the important decisions but did discuss things with my mother. My mother treated him like a king. She always kissed him goodbye in the morning and greeted him at the door after work. She waited on him hand and foot. And they did share a bed.

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(in reply to kuriousreturns)

Post #: 92

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/7/2008 12:09:44 PM

kuriousreturns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

~Fast Reply to no one in particular~

Something occured to me the other day.... exactly whose 50s lifestyle are we talking about? Standard white guy with a wife and 2.5 kids or an African-American 50s lifestyle?

hmmmmm.... good question... hadn't given thought to the differences; although, it doesn't necessarily matter, because i'm not looking for the "right" or "wrong" answer ... and i'm not looking for a "general" view ... i'm interested in a wide variety of individual views.... male, female, black, white, hispanic, native american ... children who grew up in the 50's and are now adults ... seniors who were in marriages and raising families of their own ... anybody and everybody. Does that help?

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 93

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/7/2008 12:29:16 PM

kuriousreturns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels

we very often didn't even THINK about being undisciplined in our lives or about being disobedient. It was simply the way we did things.

"B - I - N - G - O ... B - I - N - G - O ... and bingo was his name-o"

oh sorry, got lost there for a moment. That's EXACTLY what i'm talking about ... obedience was EXPECTED and most kids didn't even CONSIDER doing it any other way, for whatever reason it may have been. Personally, i'd rather have received a spanking than a verbal reprimand - i don't like hearing that i've made someone disappointed or unhappy.

quote:

the example of self-discipline shown by the parents, and their encouragement and enforcement of self-discipline in their children, will go a long way toward producing self-disciplined adults in the future.

i suppose, for some people, maybe it's possible to "be there enough" to help shape their kids into respectable and responsible adults and still work outside the home to bring in the second income. Maybe i don't have a wide enough perspective on this, because i've always lived (as a child and adult) in the low-income area of town where the grafitti, gang violence, drug abuse, and crime seem to get worse every year ... and i know that these most of these kids come home to absent, drug-addicted, or alcoholic parents who just don't give a rat's behind about how they turn out. i think if these parents cared more, paid attention more, showed more interest in their kids' activities then maybe these kids would be more responsible ... and maybe it's because these parents didn't receive it when they were kids, so they don't know how to do it now as adults. i don't know what it's like on the "good side of town" because i've never been there ... maybe it's different there... that's an answer i don't have. Everybody has their own view based on their personal experiences. Isn't that what sharing on these boards is all about .... to share O/our experiences and knowledge ... to learn from a variety of different perspectives?

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)

Post #: 94

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/7/2008 12:36:01 PM

kuriousreturns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

It always floors me that people assume the children of single parents, or households where both parents work, are undisciplined.

Well stated ... much thanks for pointing that out. i was wrong for grouping "all" together as i did, and i apologize. There are some people who CAN do it and who WANT to do it ... i am not one of those. This topic continues to expand my knowledge-base, and it's good to see that O/others are willing to point out my mistakes along the way and teach me to see things from different perspectives. i am extremely grateful for that, because it will help me to grow.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 95

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/7/2008 1:07:07 PM

TracyTaken

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quote:

i suppose, for some people, maybe it's possible to "be there enough" to help shape their kids into respectable and responsible adults and still work outside the home to bring in the second income. Maybe i don't have a wide enough perspective on this, because i've always lived (as a child and adult) in the low-income area of town where the grafitti, gang violence, drug abuse, and crime seem to get worse every year ... and i know that these most of these kids come home to absent, drug-addicted, or alcoholic parents who just don't give a rat's behind about how they turn out. i think if these parents cared more, paid attention more, showed more interest in their kids' activities then maybe these kids would be more responsible ... and maybe it's because these parents didn't receive it when they were kids, so they don't know how to do it now as adults. i don't know what it's like on the "good side of town" because i've never been there ... maybe it's different there... that's an answer i don't have.

Everything you mention happened in the suburbs too, at least it did in the early 60s (when I was growing up). Nobody talked much about such things, unless it was gossip between neighbors.

The 50's was a very lucrative time for the US, probably among the most lucrative that the any nation in the world has ever known. That part is over now and there is no escaping that. People in the US are among the hardest working in the free world (hours they work per year). An employer can only "require" 40 hours, but if you want to get ahead, you work more. If you have your own business, you often work many more. There is only so much time in a day. I think a great deal of the fault lies with our culture. The parents are stuck in that culture too, just like their kids. We are going to pay someday (much of the world is way ahead of the US in education for instance, especially in engineering and the like; most free nations are way ahead of us in healthcare too).

To do a 50s-style (by D/s standards) relationship now is doing so in a world that was unthinkable in the 50s.

(in reply to kuriousreturns)

Post #: 96

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/7/2008 2:44:45 PM

SubbieOnWheels

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Fast Reply to No One in Particular --

My dad was "in charge" of a lot, but he never got up from the table without thanking my mother for the meal. And when they were dressed up to go out, he always complimented her on her appearance. And he invited us kids to econd his opinion (not hard, as my mother was a good "plain-cook" and a very attractive woman with good fashion sense).

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Beat me, strike me, take away my reindeer! I'll never tell! -- Walt Kelly, Pogo Possum
I yam what I yam - Popeye

http://www.myspace.com/bethical_wheels

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Post #: 97

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/7/2008 4:03:14 PM

kuriousreturns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken
by definition, spanking is corporal punishment.

thanks for clarification, i will keep that in mind

quote:

Again with the window! I'm not going to talk to you anymore if you keep bringing up the window.

LOL ok ok ... no more talk about broken windows ... it was the best example i could come up with

quote:

The Andy Griffith show.

yes, that's the one

quote:

What you describe is a load of work.

For me, life without structure and discipline is a load of work; and as with exercise "if it doesn't hurt, than it's not working" ... what i mean by this is that life is all about learning for me, and sometimes the truths and lessons that i learn do hurt ... when it stops hurting or being difficult, than it's not working anymore for me ( for the record, i am not a masochist ... i hate pain and have a very low tolerance -the kind of hurt i'm talking about is emotional and psychological - painful truths, embarrassing/unbearable honesty - life's lessons).

(in reply to TracyTaken)

Post #: 98

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/7/2008 4:13:26 PM

kuriousreturns

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Joined: 1/28/2008
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quote:

Fifties Lifestyle ... an idealized style of living, taking the best from that era and using it within a power exchange during this current day and age. The HOH has all the decision making powers and it is up to that person whether or not they delegate them.

Hey can i take that and put it in a frame?

That is the best "short summary" i've ever heard ... i think the "whether or not to delegate" part is a big key point here; doesn't that go along with the general idea of "the lifestyle is different for everybody based upon individual preference"?

quote:

Why this has turned into a thing about two parents vs one parent *shrug* I don't get.

Ok then it's not my imagination? i thought it seemed like the conversation was getting pretty far away from the original question, but had not tried to direct it back because i felt the discussion was still safely within the realm of comparing the 50's lifestyle to modern. i really do appreciate all the parenting/childrearing and homemaker/career woman comments, but since it has been brought up, let's get things back on target ... the original topic was a request for information about 50's style relationships ... so if anybody else has something to say on this topic, the floor is open.

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 99

RE: Traditional or 50's Style Relationships - 2/7/2008 6:04:14 PM

rick121x

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I grew up in a "fifty's" household, actually two of them: The first, with my mother and father was pretty much of a nightmare, with financial uncertainty overwhelming nearly all caring and loving. Nevertheless, mother, while quite bright and quick minded, was saddled with the tedious chores of the household and not included in long term decisions. resulting in a very unhappy life. My father had been trained in a German-English household, extremely authoritarian, nearly evil in his need to dominate.

After the divorce - what a surprise(!), I went to live with my father's parents - that German English bunch. The household actually was based on love and cooperation - not anything like what my father had reported as "the" way a house should be run. That new life was my major instructive on how to live like a decent human being - possibly another generation of living had softened their houseold. It was indeed very nice.

Neverthless, the behavior of that first house effected my behavior in my own first marriage - if it wasn't my way, there was trouble, for I had indeed sucked up up that "evil" behavior set. It is much later, now, and I have learned to be a rather nice person literally without resentment, anger, or outburst. I have had several long term wonderful relationships generally in tune with the times - the 60s, the 70s the 80's, the 90s, the quality of each improving with my maturity in relationships, in financial security, in the wonderful world of BDSM, and in a spirtiuality I never imagined that I might experience. It has been rather nice growing up.

I wonder where the notion of BDSM crept into my life.... I don't have a clue, except that it has been there since I was ten or eleven years old, and I love it even more now that I am seventy-three. But that's a whole other subject.

I am happy that I grew up thru the forties and fifties. Those years formed a willingness to deal directly and clearly with the many difficulties that the years have presented. The escapism that seemed to pervade young folks behavior in the late 60s and 70s was not a factor, and I experienced the general ease of life provided in ensuing years as a luxury, not a necessity.

Tratitional 50's style relationships ... a lot of work and worry, but not much more than now. It was just a little different. Another thought, you couldn't relive those years if you wanted - for that environment simply just does not exist in today's world.

Richard

(in reply to kuriousreturns)

Post #: 100

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