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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 9:01:20 AM

Faeorie

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Never do I say online is better or worse than real life or any or the sort. I don't know why you all seem to take it that way.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 9:10:30 AM

Dnomyar

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Now it has gone to ignorant. Thank goodness I am not argumentive. Why is it in some post your not allowed to dissagree. Not allowed freedom of speech. Their way is the only way. I doubt if Im allowed to post this but what the heck.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 9:24:12 AM

Kalista07

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*yawn* oops...Sorry, i was hoping this was going to be an intellectual exchange of ideas and beliefs...Clearly i enetered the wrong discussion...Dnomyar, care to join me?

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 9:28:56 AM

OmegaG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Now it has gone to ignorant. Thank goodness I am not argumentive. Why is it in some post your not allowed to dissagree. Not allowed freedom of speech. Their way is the only way. I doubt if Im allowed to post this but what the heck.

maybe now I'll throw my two cents in...

I've been in on-line interactions, not on purpose as they aren't my bag of tea, but there are those that trive on on-line interactions to compensate for something they are missing in real life but don't have the time/energy/inclination/ability to make it work in real life.

I need the personal connection that only real life can provide. Right now I have a part real/part online relationship but it's not something I could sustain forever, in fact the distance gets harder as the relationship progresses.

I don't think that one that can sustain an on-line relationship is better or worse then me, except they may have more imagination then I do to make the on-line part more real in their minds.

I don't doubt that some of the people that I met on-line who never wished to persue RT weren't real and honest, but then again some of them were cloaked in lies and deciept in which real time interaction would destroy. I think that for certian people on-line can work, I think it takes more work to determine if the person at the other end of the ethernet is for real and not just a wanker getting his rocks off while the kids are napping and the wife is running errands. And that is the crux of the problem for those that are open and honest and want this type of relationship, they have to sift through the cynacism that has been built up around anyone who's been lead on a cyber joy-ride by others who came before them.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 9:30:53 AM

Leatherist

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A 450 pound guy named duane-who never bathes....can be a beautiful devoted gorean slave girl?

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 9:40:40 AM

TracyTaken

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Faeorie

Never do I say online is better or worse than real life or any or the sort. I don't know why you all seem to take it that way.

When you use the words "real sub" you are stating that there are some that are not real, fake. In your mind, what would a fake sub look like; what would they do?

At any rate, I understand why people would not give as much credibility to someone who plays World Warfare as they would to a trained soldier. If someone who played World Warfare pretended that it was real and that the virtual experience of playing equated to being in combat for real, natrually they'd be mocked.

If you are happy with what you are doing, why write an apology (in the Socratic sense) for it? People who engage in phone sex don't feel the need to defend it as better, less than or equal to screwing someone in person. How is this different?

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 9:44:51 AM

LadyPact

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I wasn't going to break this apart at first, but since you are so convinced that no one might have a different opinion other than yours to be valid, I'll take the time and trouble.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faeorie

The criticism of online Domme/sub relationships...I have talked to some people on here who have told me they 'just don't get' online Domme/sub relationships, or that they are not for them. I can understand where a sub may not be strong enough to carry his/her end of online submission, but I don't see why more Dommes take advantage of all an online relationship has to offer. I'll name just a few here:

The reason that some of us don't get it is because we have this away from the screen. We have it as a physical part of our world, and don't want to settle for the electronic version. It isn't about us making it secondary. It's about who we are in our day to day lives.

quote:

1.Fantasy: Storytellers, this is your niche! For individuals like me who are good at writing or who loves to write can find a wonderful creative outlet through email and instant messaging. She/He can create scenes that would not be possible otherwise.

Yes, there will always be scenes that are only possible through the written word. Those that include death or dismemberment come immediately to mind. Personally, that's not My thing, so it doesn't especially interest Me. However, those things that can be written out, and are also humanly possible, following SSC or RACK, can most certainly be carried out. Where some might be good at writing, I might just be better at doing.

quote:

2. Schedule: Sure, I'd love to be a Domme with unlimited time to devote to a sub. In a utopia, I'm sure that's the kind of life I would live...

My sub doesn't require My unlimited time. Like you, other people have hectic schedules. Being a Domme doesn't mean you don't have other responsibilities. In fact, being a Domme means you take on more of them.

quote:

3. Familiarity: No relationship has to be strictly online. In fact, having an online relationship with your sub first before moving to a real life one will be better for the both of you in the long run.

I highly doubt this. I don't need to 'test drive' My relationships on the net before validating them. The electronic doesn't replace any of the factors that the physical does in the matters of building trust, learning expectations, or any of the other examples that you provided. When I am in a scene with My sub, he knows I'll listen to his safe or slow words first hand, because I'm right there doing it. He doesn't have to take My word for it because I said it on the screen. He's experienced it for himself.

quote:

4. Working harder: It's easy to understand how an online sub would have to work harder to please an online Mistress/Master.

You obviously haven't seen My boy do his housework here. Quite frankly, he works his tail off in pleasing Me. As for play related things, he has to actually experience clothespins, floggers, wand, cbt, and a host of other things that I do to him. When I'm applying these methods, he doesn't need to describe the sensations, he has to feel them. Plus, I get the enjoyment of doing them Myself.

quote:

5. Impersonality: It takes a real sub to serve a mistress he cannot see.

Even better, it takes a real sub to serve a Mistress that he can see. He sees Me at My best and at My worst. In everything from corset and skirt, down to jeans and a top. He sees Me without make-up, or when I have a cold. He sees Me when I first wake up, which I can promise you isn't always a pretty picture. He sees the reality of Me being Me, not just the best foot forward that would come through on a computer.

Your online subs, I'm sure, are quite happy with what they have with you. However, have you ever asked any of them what they would prefer if given the choice?

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 10:10:40 AM

Dnomyar

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Kalista Im not allowed to be an intellect on this post. Besides when have I ever showed any intelligence?

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 10:14:46 AM

Leatherist

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Oh, and it seems to be a great way for cheaters to have those "Needs that my wife doesn't understand" met.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 10:17:17 AM

CelticPrince

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faeorie,

A very good post indeed and I agree with #3 as being right on.
I have done both r/t and on line and of course r/t is more fulfilling but that is not to say tha on line cannot reap some real benefits when the relationship is solid.

I encourage those that I mentor to to proceed on line first and to open their mind to the interaction; some will deny the fact but subspace can be reached on line.

CP

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 10:17:56 AM

sexyred1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

He's being humorous, but he's telling the truth. 99% of the time, when someone talks about how uber-awesome their relationships and ways of doing things are, there's a major problem -- i.e., their life is nowhere near a fairy tale. Your defensive reactions ("spiteful," "hateful," etc.) are more evidence that something's going on -- or not going on -- and your original post is seeking a validation you are not getting in real life. People who are confident and secure in themselves tend to talk about their relationships in the course of conversation with others, instead of throwing something out and saying, "Look at what a great thing I'm doing."

You might be in the 1% -- I have no idea. Maybe you're having a bad day, or you're still thrown by the use of the word "bullshit." But at this particular moment, you are not writing like a woman who is fulfilled in her relationships and her life.

Very good post, RedMagic, especially the underlined parts. It still boggles my mind that so many see it as otherwise. I have no comment on whether online relationships are real or not, I leave that for an individual to decide.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 10:32:41 AM

loveNdevotion

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There was a time, and not that long ago- that I would have been firmly in your camp, Faeorie. I was probably the staunchest supporter of online relationships out there. After all, I was in one- for a very long time. Six years to be exact. Nobody was going to tell me that what I had was not real. I'll tell you this much- the emotions, ~they~ were real. The few times we were able to be together in those 6 years? Real as well...

The actual 'relationship'? It certainly gave a pretty good illusion (delusion?) of being real for a loooong time. I guess, on some level, I knew all along that it was only real insomuch as I ~wanted~ it to be real; and in as much as I was willing to accept it as real. In the end, tho- no, I'd have to say it was not the real deal. Things that are one dimensional seldom are. Online may, indeed, be better than nothing at all. But, it's a pale comparison of what happens in real life. It offers an emotional high- and can be addictive- but I'm not entirely sure it can ever be considered the equal to a physical relationship.

Try sitting down to an online feast some day. It may all look great, but it's not going to satisfy your hunger, no matter how much you try to convince yourself that it will. It's a poor analogy, I know- since we are talking about two real people; but, even with love- without the physical connection, it's just not going to be what it ~could~ be.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 10:52:01 AM

ghostrider68

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Thank you Faeorie for understanding. I am 20 years old, in college living in the dorms, and I live in South Dakota. As you can see, the possibility of me actually playing with someone in real life is very slim, let alone finding someone in South Dakota or the surrounding areas. I'm in an online relationship right now, and we get along great, and we play quite a bit too. Its just, as a college student, and a very limited budget, traveling every so often to meet someone, or to relocate is impossible for me.

I would love to play in real life, but sometimes you have to wait for what you want most. I understand that some people will never understand online play, I also understand there are some people who respect us for trying even though we can't in online play. Whatever category you fit in, I really don't care what you say, its what I can get right now, and I'm willing to take it until I can play in real life. But again Faeorie, thank you. I know there are many other people out there that do online, or understand it, but you're the only one who's said anything about it, so again, thank you.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 1:55:25 PM

Faeorie

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For those who keep asking about the "real" sub thing and ask what I think a fake sub is. I don't mean reak in the sense of real and fake, but as in someone has to be very very submissive to be able to carry out orders from an online mistress because she is not there physically to make them. Ladypact, thank you for udnerstanding and for your answer. I understand you don't agree with what I said, but your answer was respectful of my opinion, mature and didn't turn to name calling.

I'm glad to see others on here who hold my beliefs. That understand you don't need to be physically there to have any kind of meaningful relationship.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 2:02:11 PM

Faeorie

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Note to all: I am NOT convinced that everyone should have the same opnion as mine. In fact that would make life boring. I'm always up for intellectual conversation, which does not have to include insults and immaturity. If you disagree with me, fine. That's great, btu don't attack me personally just because I see things differently from you. Don't call it bullshit, don't make assumptions about my life being a 'fairytale' when you don't even know me. It's just an opinion, why does everyone have to take it as a personal slight against them? I never said rl was bullshit, I never said anything against it. I just simply listed some good qualities that an online relationship brings to the table. If you weant, I'll write a message just as long stating the pros of a real life D/s relationship... they're both good choices, one just works for me better than the other for now.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 2:24:32 PM

RedMagic1

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Not all opinions are equal. Just because you have opinions, does not mean they are of value, nor that they deserve respect. I gave you an opportunity to back off and clean up, and you didn't take it. Please do, next time.

Whatever Camille65 says is worth its weight in gold. Why? #1) She knows what she's talking about, and #2) every time she types, she is trying to help someone else, not to make herself look better. But she is talking about a long distance relationship where people know each other in real life and use technology to communicate. A long distance relationship is not the same thing as an online relationship.

I don't know what forum you're used to, but people don't just post nifty ideas here to play around with. People post things like, "I'm 3 months pregnant, the dad just left, I'm totally alone, what can I do?" They need real advice from people who really give a shit. Also, again and again and again there are stories from both men and woman who got totally fucked over because they invested themselves emotionally in an online relationship and the person at the other end of the cam was not for real.

It is objectively dangerous to "promote on-line relationships." People get badly hurt. You've seen posts on this very thread about that. And your reasons for why they are so cool do not hold water. LadyPact already dissected you, so I'll add just one more thing.

I am flying from Iowa to Seattle in a few days. A round trip ticket cost less that $300 on orbitz.com. That's $150 per person on each end of the cam, or about three days' work at a minimum wage job. I can fly across half the country for that price. Therefore, it is not financially impossible to meet. It might be hard to see each other every night. That's what the cam is for. But no relationship should proceed forward without meeting in real life early on. Period. That is not opinion; it's objective fact, based on example after example you can find for yourself if you browse the archives of this site.

If you want respect, say things worthy of respect, not things that could harm others.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 2:35:05 PM

Bound2One

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Faeorie

For those who keep asking about the "real" sub thing and ask what I think a fake sub is. I don't mean reak in the sense of real and fake, but as in someone has to be very very submissive to be able to carry out orders from an online mistress because she is not there physically to make them. Ladypact, thank you for udnerstanding and for your answer. I understand you don't agree with what I said, but your answer was respectful of my opinion, mature and didn't turn to name calling.

I'm glad to see others on here who hold my beliefs. That understand you don't need to be physically there to have any kind of meaningful relationship.

The bold part is where you lose me. I don't obey my Master only when I'm physically standing in front of him and because he's 'making' me. I am submissive to him; hence, I obey. Simple. Your use of the words 'very very submissive' to be able to obey an online Mistress ... I'd disagree. An online submissive isn't an uber-submissive because he/she obeys on cam or via im.

I do think there are benefits to an online relationship, but for myself, nothing beats real life. And at some point, I'd have to meet the person to whom I was submitting.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 2:39:16 PM

Faeorie

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Then I wonder why there are others on here who agree with me, if I am so wrong. the thread is "General BDSM Discussion" not "Post your problems here, we're psychologists, we can take care of you." I think talking about online relationships... looking at it in a different light falls under general BDSM discussion. Where else can I talk about different ideas within the BDSM world? That's great that you can afford to visit, wonderful. But I'm just a poor college student who works her ass off to pay for her house, and can't afford such a plane ticket. I'm not trying to make myself look better. Sorry that you deem my opinion as unworthy of this forum, I'm sure there are those who will agree and disagree with you. I doubt my ideas are "dangerous," but if you can show me a working example of how MY post alone destroyed someones life, then I may rethink what I say. Just because you don't agree with something doesnt mean you have to disrespect it. Is it so important that I forgo my own opinions to bow to the weight of the masses? Sorry, but I don't compromise my beliefs and opinions, not for anyone.

Like I said, over and over, it works for me. It may not work for everybody, but will for some. I started the post for those who may be curious about it, offering a a side to the argument that isn't very popular or talked about much.

But then people always hate the devils advocate.

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 2:42:27 PM

TracyTaken

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quote:

For those who keep asking about the "real" sub thing and ask what I think a fake sub is. I don't mean reak in the sense of real and fake, but as in someone has to be very very submissive to be able to carry out orders from an online mistress because she is not there physically to make them.

Compared to us F-2-F subs ... we just go hog wild when the dom is away!

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RE: Thoughts on Online relationships - 2/6/2008 2:48:26 PM

Faeorie

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You have to have a sub with a lot of self discipline because you aren't there to do it yourself. If they do wrong, they must carry out the punishment on themselves rather than have me do it, which is harder than having a sub just take it. That's what I mean. Not saying that real life subs aren't real. More like... online subs are real too, even though some would disagree.

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