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Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/11/2008 10:08:30 PM

greyangelus

Posts: 192
Joined: 1/22/2008
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I've been having a change of percerption about 'consideration collar's recently. For a long time, I didn't really understand the point of one. Collaring seemed to be an either/or thing, either you did/were and had the responsiblity and power exchange that went with it, or you didn't. 'Consideration' collars seemed like an all play and no work deal at worst, or a lack of commitment about the relationship and waffling at best. However, at some point in time in the last week or so, it hit me as to maybe why some D/s couple do use the consideration collar concept.

Clarity. Or in a longer statement, it marks a clear start to the beginning of the power exchange. Lemme explain.

In the beginning, there are two individuals, both whom have compatible mutual interests and are interested in trying to make it work and develop a relationship, the goal of which is collaring, marriage, living happily ever after etc. The missing peice I didn't see was how these two people went from being interested individuals to beginning the D/s dynamic with each other. The light finally dinged on and I realized that the consideration collar was that beginning, that clear defnitive point where that changeover happens. Its the clear statement that the nature of how those two people relate to each has changed from Dick and Jane to Dom Dick and Sub Jane.

So is this like totally off-base? I know the consideration collar concept is nowhere near universally practiced, I'm just curious to know if my idea of what a consideration collar is what the generally held belief about them are.

Post #: 1

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/11/2008 10:27:16 PM

probablyknowme

Posts: 1875
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

Okay, see I am normally one the most upbeat and positive people I know in this lifestyle, and think that WIITWD is just about the neatest thing since bubble gum was invented, but this is a real pet-peeve of mine.

In my opinion, from several years of observing people meeting, loving, and then crashing into the firey pits of a relationship gone wrong, consideration collars are simply a tool used by many "Doms" who want to mark their territory before they have even taken the time to find out if they want it. Kind of "I'm not sure if I really want this girl, but I know that I don't want anybody else hitting on her so I am going to offer her a collar of consideration, just so she gets happy, and I get what I want." Now, if someone who has her wits about her is offered one of these, she might be smart enough to see the reasons behind it, and take it at face value for what it is. But how many of us have known those poor lost soul newbies who are so eager to be collared that they will do anything to attain one? Thinking, "Oh I have a collar, he must love me...what if he doesn't...my world is coming to an end....he isn't talking to me now...what should I do...goodbye cruel lifestyle...I am finished with it all." Time after time....I can't count how many times I have seen it happen.

Okay, I'm done ranting...you may be perfectly correct in your assumption about the consideration collar, at least for your own personal usage of it. If you do use it that way, then I applaud you...you are being honorable about it. I will be watching for more discussion about this.

kat

< Message edited by probablyknowme -- 2/11/2008 11:24:43 PM >

_____________________________

The human mind is like a TV set. When it goes blank, it's a good idea to turn off the sound.
-Anon.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewcomersOK/

(in reply to greyangelus)

Post #: 2

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/11/2008 10:33:04 PM

greyangelus

Posts: 192
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline

quote:

In my opinion, from several years of observing people meeting, loving, and then crashing into the firey pits of a relationship gone wrong, consideration collars are simply a tool used by many "Doms" who want to mark their territory before they have even taken the time to find out if they want it. Kind of "I'm not sure if I really want this girl, but I know that I don't want anybody else hitting on her so I am going to offer her a collar of consideration, just so she gets happy, and I get what I want." Now, if someone who has her wits about her is offered one of these, she might be smart of to see the reasons behind, and take it at face value for what it is. But how many of us have known those poor lost soul newbies who are so eager to be collared that they will do anything to attain one? Thinking, "Oh I have a collar, he must love me...what if he doesn't...my world is coming to an end....he isn't talking to me now...what should I do...goodbye cruel lifestyle...I am finished with it all." Time after time....I can't count how many times I have seen it happen.

\

And that was pretty much my exact opinion on consideration collar too for the longest time. I know that whats in the quote above has probably happened countless times.

Trust me, I'm not singing the praise of the consideration collar in my OP. I'm just curious if that what it was orignally supposed to mean, and the original concept got lost along the way.

(in reply to probablyknowme)

Post #: 3

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 12:26:11 AM

Willowmoon

Posts: 227
Joined: 9/25/2007
Status: offline

I currently wear Master's Consideration collar and know full well that it was not/is not just a place holder while he sees if he really wants me. Master and I live together and love each other. Its also not a newbie thing as both of us have had Master/slave relatonships since we were about 17.

What is it to us? It is/was a way of seeing if we were compatable at Master/slave 24/7 and both of us see it as being the same as a period of engagement before a wedding.

Willow

(in reply to greyangelus)

Post #: 4

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 12:55:49 AM

darklilsub

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/6/2007
Status: offline

Here is something that concerns me about the Consideration Collar. i have a friend that is interested in the lifestyle, got involved and accepted a Consideration Collar and now she is having second thoughts about it and feels like she is stuck, and doesn't know how to tell Him that she is starting to doubt things. Any ideas on how this can be done with a Collar of Consideration? They've been friends in r/t for years. Thanks to anyone willing to give ideas, as i'm basically out of advice on this, since i tend to try and think things out as much as possible beforehand. *shrugs* Thanks again, all.

< Message edited by darklilsub -- 2/12/2008 12:58:50 AM >

(in reply to greyangelus)

Post #: 5

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 1:08:58 AM

greyangelus

Posts: 192
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline

quote:

Here is something that concerns me about the Consideration Collar. I have a friend that is interested in the lifestyle, got involved and accepted a Consideration Collar and now she is having second thoughts about it and feels like she is stuck, and doesn't know how to tell Him that she is starting to doubt things. Any ideas on how this can be done with a Collar of Consideration? They've been friends for years, He's falling for her, she isn't falling for Him nearly as hard and doesn't know what to do. Thanks to anyone willing to give ideas. :)

Consideration goes both ways, and its also for reasons like this why some genius came up with the consideration collar idea in the first place I thought.

(in reply to darklilsub)

Post #: 6

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 1:14:39 AM

Justme696

Posts: 3236
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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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I wonder what real vallue a consideration collar has anyway. Ds should learn eachother first...for a longer time..perhaps without collar...and in time when they feel both good about the relation..take a real collar.
For me it takes away the meaning of the collar.

_____________________________

~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

(in reply to greyangelus)

Post #: 7

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 1:18:30 AM

darchChylde

Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: greyangelus

Clarity. Or in a longer statement, it marks a clear start to the beginning of the power exchange. Lemme explain.

Ma'am and i communicated and made our needs, wants and expectations known to one another. She accepted mine, and i accepted Hers. She claimed me as Her property and i was happy to be such. What's not clear about that?

Now we've been together and i've been a part of Her family for 17 months, She has yet to bestow Her collar on me. i am still Hers, a collar or lack of one doesn't change that. Now, my collar has been/is being made and She will Bestow it upon me when She wishes. Will that change our relationship? In some ways, the training stage will have been passed but i will still continue to learn; there are things we have not been doing while i was in training and we shall the take them up, at Her pace and desire.

A collar and contract are symbolic, concrete representations for what we feel; but they don't make the relationship (even if it will make me a disgustingly happy pet). Do you give a dating ring after 3 dates? Does an engagement ring really change an already commited relationship? Do the wedding bands mean that you actually love one another more? No, these are merely symbols for what is already there.

Just my opinion, not even necessarily reflecting Ma'ams; She can speak for Herself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: darklilsub

Here is something that concerns me about the Consideration Collar. i have a friend that is interested in the lifestyle, got involved and accepted a Consideration Collar and now she is having second thoughts about it and feels like she is stuck, and doesn't know how to tell Him that she is starting to doubt things. Any ideas on how this can be done with a Collar of Consideration? They've been friends in r/t for years. Thanks to anyone willing to give ideas, as i'm basically out of advice on this, since i tend to try and think things out as much as possible beforehand. *shrugs* Thanks again, all.

She should speak up and tell him how she feels, tactfully and respectfully; believe it or not, D/s doesn't really have to be all that complicated... it can in fact be very simple.

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

(in reply to greyangelus)

Post #: 8

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 1:20:51 AM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

The pure and simple fact is that I am quite happy alone. Someone would have to be pretty exceptional for me to consider even something casual with them.

Some silly ritual like a friendship ring-place holder..............call it what you will..........

Is just not going to happen in the pragmatic sort of world I live in.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to greyangelus)

Post #: 9

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 1:41:25 AM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: greyangelus

I've been having a change of percerption about 'consideration collar's recently. For a long time, I didn't really understand the point of one. Collaring seemed to be an either/or thing, either you did/were and had the responsiblity and power exchange that went with it, or you didn't. 'Consideration' collars seemed like an all play and no work deal at worst, or a lack of commitment about the relationship and waffling at best. However, at some point in time in the last week or so, it hit me as to maybe why some D/s couple do use the consideration collar concept.

Clarity. Or in a longer statement, it marks a clear start to the beginning of the power exchange. Lemme explain.

In the beginning, there are two individuals, both whom have compatible mutual interests and are interested in trying to make it work and develop a relationship, the goal of which is collaring, marriage, living happily ever after etc. The missing peice I didn't see was how these two people went from being interested individuals to beginning the D/s dynamic with each other. The light finally dinged on and I realized that the consideration collar was that beginning, that clear defnitive point where that changeover happens. Its the clear statement that the nature of how those two people relate to each has changed from Dick and Jane to Dom Dick and Sub Jane.

So is this like totally off-base? I know the consideration collar concept is nowhere near universally practiced, I'm just curious to know if my idea of what a consideration collar is what the generally held belief about them are.

quote:

\

I had a thread asking about collars over christmas. I knew I was getting a collar from my BF/Dominant but I knew words "I love you" would be a long time off. I didnt know what a collar from him was going to mean. I thought it was going to be something he gave me just for fun. I started to realize that I did place value on the collar. Now I would never wear one all the time, so what was this meaning to me? It was symbolic. At that point in our relationship I knew I wanted a collar to mean something. I didnt want it to mean Everything I knew when he gave it to me that I was going to have to talk to him about what its value was in his eyes and if we werent on the same page to have him hold on to it.I accepted it because we were on the same page. It meant we were working toward something with a level of commitment to growing together and exclusiveness in that I would not be with or scene with anyone without his consent and approval and we were together. I was his. It was a token of something meaningful.

The collar is the value you put on it and with the terms agreed upon by both without any ambiguity. I certainly cant fathom having a full fledged collar placed on me with someone I have been seeing for less than 4 months. But thats just me.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 2/12/2008 1:43:01 AM >

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to greyangelus)

Post #: 10

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 2:37:28 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

So is this like totally off-base? I know the consideration collar concept is nowhere near universally practiced, I'm just curious to know if my idea of what a consideration collar is what the generally held belief about them are.

grey,

For my money, it is just a device that marks a territory without responsibility.
Is it supposed to take the place of time spent getting to really understand each other?

In short it is a "D" device to gain advantage without responsibility.

CP

(in reply to greyangelus)

Post #: 11

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 3:27:56 AM

ProlificNeeds

Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline

Engagement ring, wedding ring.
Consideration collar, formal collar.

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 12

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 4:08:29 AM

OldBastardly1

Posts: 651
Joined: 7/22/2006
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

I take a consideration collar as being equivalent to a little boy screaming " I have dibs on her...nobody else can touch her" because they can't stand any competition. Take her off the market before she realizes that he isn't what her 1st impression was.

_____________________________

Old Bastard

"You cannot make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt. And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" -- Bob Moawad

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 13

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 4:27:59 AM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1

I take a consideration collar as being equivalent to a little boy screaming " I have dibs on her...nobody else can touch her" because they can't stand any competition. Take her off the market before she realizes that he isn't what her 1st impression was.

I agree with you in alot of ways. There are surely Domabys that do that. however there are levels of relationship even in the vanilla world that come before marriage. We have dating, exclusive, engaged then married. So when I get additional collars I will ask, "what does this one mean? Are you wanting to take this to a deeper level?" That may sound silly to you but no woman I know doesnt want more jewlery.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to OldBastardly1)

Post #: 14

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 4:45:46 AM

jeaS2Atonka

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/10/2008
Status: offline

For a newbie that had no idea what you were talking about until i read this, i would have to say in my opinion (you dont have to agree), personally I wouldnt want a collar straight away, i would rather be guided and taught what my master would want from the relationship, then if after sometime a collar was offered, im still not sure i would want it..........its a bit like a marriage we marry for love honour and to obey but sometimes it just never works out........................hence im not rushing into anything any time soon, but thanks for the info :)

(in reply to greyangelus)

Post #: 15

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 5:02:04 AM

AtlantaMistress

Posts: 276
Joined: 6/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde
A collar and contract are symbolic, concrete representations for what we feel; but they don't make the relationship (even if it will make me a disgustingly happy pet). Do you give a dating ring after 3 dates? Does an engagement ring really change an already commited relationship? Do the wedding bands mean that you actually love one another more? No, these are merely symbols for what is already there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19
The collar is the value you put on it and with the terms agreed upon by both without any ambiguity. I certainly cant fathom having a full fledged collar placed on me with someone I have been seeing for less than 4 months. But thats just me.

It is my understanding as well that a collar - of ANY type/label - is a symbol of some kind of commitment between two people. What that commitment is - training, consideration, lifetime commitment - is between those two parties. It should be something that is asked and accepted, and the terms & implications of it discussed fully. It does certianly stand for something for others to see - that you are committed to someone - and respect should be given to that, however, outside from the basic rules of protocal, everyone else's opinion should not matter. The time you have been together, the level of the commitment at the time of the collar or where the relationship is going and what its determined meaning between the two people is for no one to judge. If you are wearing a collar that you have been asked to wear and accepted, others in the community should simply be happy that two people have found whatever it is they wanted at the time.

One thing that I have heard of/seen is someone being placed under a "protective collar" - even without their consent - wtf? I understand if a sub is new, and wants to play a lot, and a Dom/me with much more experience wants to protect him/her from getting into something too quickly - the idea of the protective collar (I guess?) so that anyone has to ask the Dom/me before playing with the sub - HOWEVER - I think ANY collar should be asked and accepted. Regardless of how new someone may be, and the good intentions of the more experienced Dom/me - I think the idea of placing someone under a collar without discussion and acceptance is presumptious and a bit disrespectful. Believe it or not, just because someone wants to submit does not mean they give up the ability to think for themself. May have stepped a bit off topic, but figuring newbies will read about collars...wanted to point that out.

_____________________________

Mistress Sandy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd rather be hated for something I am than loved for something I am not.

(in reply to jeaS2Atonka)

Post #: 16

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 5:10:57 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I'm sure it does work that way for some. And if so, and they're the types who like the formality of it, then greater power to them. For me, the symbol is not the thing. Nor did we go from totally vanilla to then saying "Okay, today we start D/sing". The sense of the dynamic was there all along.

Which is not to say he was a Neanderthal from day one, dragging me off by my hair. But subtly taking my arm, steering me to the table to sit, asking what I drink and giving my order to the waitress, that kind of take charge/protective attitude was always there. What wasn't there was my being comfortable with it, so he kept it at that level until I was fine, and then jacked it up a notch, always waiting for me to catch up to him, and never pushing too hard or too fast. I guess the best metaphor is that his dominance was on idle, and when he did take me out for a spin he didn't immediately redline it, instead we started with a slow Sunday drive pace, the one that allows you to stop without tires squealing if you see a garage sale that interests you. He worked his way up to taking me on the Thruway at high speed.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to jeaS2Atonka)

Post #: 17

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 5:24:03 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: greyangelus
The light finally dinged on and I realized that the consideration collar was that beginning, that clear defnitive point where that changeover happens. Its the clear statement that the nature of how those two people relate to each has changed from Dick and Jane to Dom Dick and Sub Jane.

So is this like totally off-base? I know the consideration collar concept is nowhere near universally practiced, I'm just curious to know if my idea of what a consideration collar is what the generally held belief about them are.

While it should be, it probably isnt completely offbase. Thats tantamount to proposing to a girl whos a virgin until marriage just to get her in bed. You dont use a collar, consideration or otherwise, to spark the D/s relationship.

Those who believe in the collar of cousideration as part of the process see it as a step. I have heard the engagement ring/wedding ring aidea quite a few times. I see the consideration collar as more of a security blanket, for a sub who needs some sort of reassurance that their effort and training is going along as their Master or Mistress has planned.
Angel had a consideration collar. He lived here in Nashville and I lived in Vegas at the time. He needed something from me to reassure him that I was not just all talk like many of the others he had been courted by, and wasnt going to abandon him when he wasnt able to up and move to be with me. I knew I wanted to relocate, and I would be clsoer by, but I didnt want a permanent collar around his neck until I was sure WHEN Id be moving. Belonging to someone who cannot ever be around would have been harder than waiting. However with his consideration collar, he felt more confident that I was not going anywhere and he was able to ptiently wait and continue his training until my plans came together.
Fox never had a consideration collar, he didnt need one nor would he have had time for it. He was collared within a short time of my getting him.
For both boys, there was never a question of dynamic. I have a dominant personality around everyone. Both of them felt perfectly comfortable being submissive around me, and to me after a bit. The harder part was the vanilla relationship over the distance when Angel and I were starting out.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to greyangelus)

Post #: 18

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 5:24:43 AM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline

I find collars of consideration easy to understand, and I'm not completely against the entire concept. Actually, I think a collar of consideration merges nicely with going steady in vanilla terms, or being engaged. I view it as kind of a test run...let's see if this is gonna work for us kind of thing.

Collars of Protection are another story, though...I just don't see their place. In my experience, the one who is "protecting" is actually staking claim. People do their own things, and I think that's great. One of my favorite parts of the lifestyle is the pomp and circumstance, or the protocols, if you will. But, outside of a "House" collar of protection, I am either totally missing the point or way off base.

I guess, in the end, it's whatever makes people happy. If someone feels a need for a collar of protection, then have at it. I may not understand the concept, but I'm not the one donning the collar.

And, actually, I saw a real life use for a collar of consideration. A submissive moved in with a "family" and although she was happy with most of them, it became quickly apparent that things weren't going as planned. So, during the time she wore her collar of consideration, she was part of a closed poly household. After she took the time to consider it...she decided that the family didn't suit her needs. And, I think it turned out better than if she would have had some sort of formal collar or contract. Had she had either, someone would have ended up the bad guy, but this way it just flowed right past the drama.

So, whatever floats your boat, I guess.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to greyangelus)

Post #: 19

RE: Clarity and Consideration Collars - 2/12/2008 5:43:24 AM

ThundersCry

Posts: 892
Status: offline

It was always my understanding that there were 3 types of collars that were *used* in the Old Guard...ways and days.

Consideration....Training....The Real Deal.

Not a way all want to appraoch their relationships nowdays....

I have always thought the collar has been bastersized thru the interent, in many ways...

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 20

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