RE: Gunman kills 5 on Illinois Campus

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Gunman kills 5 on Illinois Campus

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Gunman kills 5 on Illinois Campus

Page: << < prev 2 3 4 5 [6]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Gunman kills 5 on Illinois Campus - 2/15/2008 8:41:00 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

A gun is lovely, if, and only if, one is able to "get the jump" on the perp and then actually pulls their gun out and kills the other person. If somebody pulls a gun on me and I am still alive, odds are fairly good I will talk my way out of the situation. Failing that, I will get away (odds of actually hitting something decrease exponentially the more feet (being 12 inches) one gets between one and the gun). Even if I am shot, one in four gunshots to the head are lethal and one in ten to center body mass are lethal. Or I will end up beating the snot out of the person with the gun (we teach controlling the weapon and using our other weapons (knees, etc) to beat the crap out of the person.

This has been my assessment, as well. If I were to carry one, it would not be for self-defense. Currently, I carry a flashlight. I am fairly certain it has done me far more good than most knives and guns in this world have done those who carry them. For one thing, it allows me to see in the dark. I also carry one or two small (legal length, 5cm = 2") blades. I figure those have been useful, too. Like when I'm buying a single soda and they only have four-packs. If a situation ever presents itself where they are useful for other things, great, but I would say most of the people I know have only encountered situations where they can either choose to get out of it, or lack the time to pull something out of wherever. The flashlight seems marginally more likely, given that I actually use it in dark areas, etc.

Thanks for the statistics, by the way. And for the confirmation.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Profile

Post #: 101

RE: Gunman kills 5 on Illinois Campus - 2/15/2008 8:57:46 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

But he got sick and was on meds.It`s when he went off of them that he went crazy.

Happens sometimes. It was a bad judment call on his part. People off meds make them, too.
People who should be on meds yet aren't, make them even more frequently.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Owner59)

Profile

Post #: 102

RE: Gunman kills 5 on Illinois Campus - 2/16/2008 4:06:01 AM

RealityLicks

Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GhoSSt

There is, in the US a strict reporting system for all guns used in crime. There is however, no reporting requirement if you use a firearm sucessfully to defend ones self.

If you don't have useful figures for how effective guns are in protecting yourself, why are you so certain that they work?

Aswad's meandering treatise on causality is misleading. He has conflated those who plan pre-meditated murder with those who hold guns ostensibly to defend themselves. That is, those who believe they'll be able to shoot someone who is already aiming a gun at them, those who believe that shooting someone who grabs their handbag or their girlfriend's arse is justifiable.

No-one has yet demonstrated that any recorded fall in crime rates is directly due to citizen gun ownership. The same prosperity that makes state of the art weaponry affordable is far more likely to lower crime rates than any fear of being shot.

How many of the latest round of victims had guns in their homes "keeping them safe"?

(in reply to GhoSSt)

Profile

Post #: 103

RE: Gunman kills 5 on Illinois Campus - 2/16/2008 4:42:55 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

No. I did not conflate them.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to RealityLicks)

Profile

Post #: 104

RE: Gunman kills 5 on Illinois Campus - 2/16/2008 7:10:04 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

Not sure how many of you have seen this.It gives a little backround on the shooter.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23171567/

My two cents.Here in NJ,one can legally own any long gun or pistol.What ever is available and legal for everyone else, is available here.We however do a background check,criminal/mental check and you wait a few days for this.

I think this is reasonable and prudent.The weapons that criminals buy(in NY and NJ cities and in DC),come from states that don`t do these things,and sell as many guns as possible this way to whoever.

The selfish sons of bitches in these states are the main reason that illegal weapons find there way onto the streets.

This has been going on for decades and it doesn`t take a rocket scientist to figure out where the river of guns is flowing from.

Law enforcement and health officials have been suggesting for years that we have a uniform nation wide system to check out people before they`re allowed to posses such a lethal device.

It doesn`t stop the normal good,healthy citizen(that we`ve been mentioning) from owning,but may well keep Mr. Meds from arming up to go on a rampage.

The guy who shot Ronold Reagan bought his pistol on the way to DC at a pawn shop without a background check.
As easy as buying a sandwich .

But even this most reasonable of moves is derided and prevented by the NRA and it`s well paid employees who also play elected republicans on TV.

A nation wide background check/waiting period won`t stop every nut from getting one.But it will stop many and will prevent things like this.

It will absolutely not stop an average citizen from buying/owning one.

~The NRA - - Being unreasonable jerkoffs for over 100 years~

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/16/2008 7:17:21 AM >

(in reply to Aswad)

Profile

Post #: 105

RE: Gunman kills 5 on Illinois Campus - 2/16/2008 8:48:08 AM

GhoSSt

Posts: 15
Joined: 1/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
If you don't have useful figures for how effective guns are in protecting yourself, why are you so certain that they work?

John Lott and David Mustard, in connection with the University of Chicago Law School, examining crime statistics from 1977 to 1992 for all U.S. counties, concluded that the thirty-one states allowing their residents to carry concealed, had significant reductions in violent crime. Lott writes, "Our most conservative estimates show that by adopting shall-issue laws, states reduced murders by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%. If those states that did not permit concealed handguns in 1992 had permitted them back then, citizens might have been spared approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and 12,000 robberies. To put it even more simply criminals, we found, respond rationally to deterrence threats... While support for strict gun-control laws usually has been strongest in large cities, where crime rates are highest, that's precisely where right-to-carry laws have produced the largest drops in violent crimes."

(Source: http://www.womenandguns.com/wfn/lott.html, Originally published in the The Wall Street Journal, August 28, 1996, (The Rule of Law column).

A bit more scientific.

GhoSSt

< Message edited by GhoSSt -- 2/16/2008 8:50:17 AM >

(in reply to RealityLicks)

Profile

Post #: 106