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RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 7:47:29 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

celtic- you sure dont mind the massive outsorucing, the degregs that leads to enron and the mortgage mess.


Offshoring and Enron, being distinctly 90s' phenomena, would be laid at Bill Clinton's feet, not Dubya's.  Telecom and utility deregulation in particular occurred during Billary's first go at being President.

The mortgage mess is a black eye on both political parties, and on the financial organs of government in particular.  After all, the "subprime" borrowers at ground zero of that sordid business are the "working" people Obama presumes to celebrate.  There is blame aplenty for all participants, but there is no way to avoid the blunt reality that most "subprime" borrowers should never have been qualified for a mortgage to begin with.  No one held a gun to their heads and forced them to borrow money.  As a society, we have come to believe that credit is good--and that bit of bullshit transcends Democrat and Republican politicking.

I don't like the Republicans and I despise Dubya.  Three thousand families have flags in place of sons and daughters as a result of his reckless adventurism in Iraq.  However, the Democrats are beholden to at least as many special interests (if not more) as the Republicans, which makes Obama's neo-Marxist rhetoric ludicrous and dangerously naive. 

Between McCain and Obama, McCain is more likely to leave more of my money in my pocket--which is exactly where I want it.


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RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:03:19 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

He promises to bring the troops home from Iraq, but has no real plan for leaving a stable government in that country--which is the only way to ensure troops won't be returning to Iraq.  Off the campaign trail, we call that dangerously naive.



That approach worked for the Dipshit in Chief that the red states elected. 

Are you sharing your lessons learned with us?  I personally knew this would be a problem before the invasion, but thanks for trying to warn the rest of us.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:04:28 AM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

celtic- you sure dont mind the massive outsorucing, the degregs that leads to enron and the mortgage mess.


Offshoring and Enron, being distinctly 90s' phenomena, would be laid at Bill Clinton's feet, not Dubya's.  Telecom and utility deregulation in particular occurred during Billary's first go at being President.



Michael Milken and his ilk?

Sinergy

p.s.  This is fun!


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:04:38 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Race is a social construct; in Genetics, "race" has a very specific meaning, and the variations in the human genome do not qualify.

As for CelticLord's rant about "class warfare", well, that cracks me up. The rethugs have been attacking the middle class for years.


I read his speeches.  One does not unite people by setting up "us" vs. "them" divisions; villifying the top 2% income bracket while extolling the "working" people is class warfare rhetoric--by definition.  If you wish to debate the merits of that division, we can do so (because your assertion is provably wrong)--but to suggest that it is anything other than class warfare rhetoric is disingenuous.


"
It turned out that Mr. Buffett, with immense income from dividends and capital gains, paid far, far less as a fraction of his income than the secretaries or the clerks or anyone else in his office. Further, in conversation it came up that Mr. Buffett doesn’t use any tax planning at all. He just pays as the Internal Revenue Code requires. “How can this be fair?” he asked of how little he pays relative to his employees. “How can this be right?”
Even though I agreed with him, I warned that whenever someone tried to raise the issue, he or she was accused of fomenting class warfare.
“There’s class warfare, all right,” Mr. Buffett said, “but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”"
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/business/yourmoney/26every.html?_r=5&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=login

"
Perhaps one of our nation's leading business magazines would like to create something called a Forbes or Fortune 250 Million list, which would reveal the dire financial pressures that our public policies have produced for working men and women and their families. It's time for all of us to focus on that deep chasm we have allowed to open between the wealthiest Americans and the middle class and those who aspire to it.
Otherwise, there will be 250 million casualties in what has become nothing less than class warfare."
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/03/Dobbs.Oct4/index.html

How the right co-opted the phrase "class warfare":
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20030115.html

"In a recent issue of the National Review, television personality Larry Kudlow goes even further, suggesting:
  • Speeding up the rest of the Bush tax cuts, which so disproportionately benefit only the wealthiest Americans that even the gutless Democrats are now gagging over them.

  • Making stock turnovers tax-free, so "unlocking past equity gains will not be a taxable event." There's one for the coupon-clippers.

  • Reducing taxes on dividends. Another one for the coupon-clippers.

  • Letting new business start-ups go tax free for a couple of years. "Unhindered by corporate taxes, business could get into gear more quickly." Since corporations aren't paying corporate taxes now, why not give them a further break? Great idea.
    Mr. Kudlow claims the debate over reducing the capital gains tax has been "class warfare-driven and contentious at best." No kidding." http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0905-02.htm

    Essay on the rich escaping taxes by Michael Kinsley:
    http://www.slate.com/id/2084002/

    The reality: Republican policy penalizes the not-rich:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-a-palermo/republican-class-warfare_b_82904.html

    Keep telling yourself the the Dems are preaching "class warfare". The Rethugs are prosecuting the war against the not-rich.

    It's weird, that so many poor and middle-class white males support the party of the rich. It's like some Bizarro-world version of the Stockholm Syndrome.

    (in reply to celticlord2112)
    • Profile   Post #: 44
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:08:40 AM   
    celticlord2112


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    quote:

    It's weird, that so many poor and middle-class white males support the party of the rich. It's like some Bizarro-world version of the Stockholm Syndrome.


    I support the tax policies that are most conducive to me growing my company.  I don't care which party keeps my taxes low--just that my taxes stay low.  Right now, the Republicans are keeping my taxes low.

    When the Democrats stop wanting to raise my taxes, then we'll talk.  Until then, they need to leave Washington en masse and keep their sticky fingers out of my bank book.


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    Profile   Post #: 45
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:11:10 AM   
    Sinergy


    Posts: 9383
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

    quote:

    celtic- you sure dont mind the massive outsorucing, the degregs that leads to enron and the mortgage mess.


    Offshoring and Enron, being distinctly 90s' phenomena, would be laid at Bill Clinton's feet, not Dubya's.  Telecom and utility deregulation in particular occurred during Billary's first go at being President.



    Technically, it would be laid at the feet of the Republican controlled Congress, not the President.

    Next!

    Sinergy


    _____________________________

    "There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
    David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

    "Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


    (in reply to celticlord2112)
    Profile   Post #: 46
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:19:39 AM   
    Hippiekinkster


    Posts: 5512
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    From: Liechtenstein
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

    quote:

    It's weird, that so many poor and middle-class white males support the party of the rich. It's like some Bizarro-world version of the Stockholm Syndrome.


    I support the tax policies that are most conducive to me growing my company.  I don't care which party keeps my taxes low--just that my taxes stay low.  Right now, the Republicans are keeping my taxes low.

    When the Democrats stop wanting to raise my taxes, then we'll talk.  Until then, they need to leave Washington en masse and keep their sticky fingers out of my bank book.


    So your having a few extra dollars in your bank account is more important than fixing falling-down bridges, crumbling streets and highways, an air transportation system on the brink of collapse, keeping more Amis healthy with preventive medicine, et cetera and so forth? "Fuck you, Jack. I got mine"? Okey-doke.

    (in reply to celticlord2112)
    Profile   Post #: 47
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:41:29 AM   
    celticlord2112


    Posts: 5732
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
    So your having a few extra dollars in your bank account is more important than fixing falling-down bridges, crumbling streets and highways, an air transportation system on the brink of collapse, keeping more Amis healthy with preventive medicine, et cetera and so forth? "Fuck you, Jack. I got mine"? Okey-doke.


    And Obama and the Democrats will actually spend on those items instead of the usual pork barrel bullshit?

    Yeah.

    Sure.

    Right.

    You keep on believing that while you're on a three week waiting list for all that wonderful preventive healthcare Obama's promising you.


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    Profile   Post #: 48
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:42:35 AM   
    celticlord2112


    Posts: 5732
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Sinergy

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

    quote:

    celtic- you sure dont mind the massive outsorucing, the degregs that leads to enron and the mortgage mess.


    Offshoring and Enron, being distinctly 90s' phenomena, would be laid at Bill Clinton's feet, not Dubya's.  Telecom and utility deregulation in particular occurred during Billary's first go at being President.



    Technically, it would be laid at the feet of the Republican controlled Congress, not the President.

    Next!

    Sinergy



    So Obama's no longer running for President?

    Excellent!!!  Things are looking better already!


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    Profile   Post #: 49
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:47:27 AM   
    Hippiekinkster


    Posts: 5512
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    From: Liechtenstein
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
    So your having a few extra dollars in your bank account is more important than fixing falling-down bridges, crumbling streets and highways, an air transportation system on the brink of collapse, keeping more Amis healthy with preventive medicine, et cetera and so forth? "Fuck you, Jack. I got mine"? Okey-doke.


    And Obama and the Democrats will actually spend on those items instead of the usual pork barrel bullshit?

    Yeah.

    Sure.

    Right.

    You keep on believing that while you're on a three week waiting list for all that wonderful preventive healthcare Obama's promising you.

    I seriously doubt any meaningful healthcare reform will get through Congress because of Rethug obstructionism.

    At any rate, better to have all citizens covered, and have a three-week wait, than have 47 million Americans not being able to obtain wellness care at all.

    Rhetorical question: when are rightards going to stop calling a single-payer system "socialized healthcare"? It's a complete lie to call it that.

    (in reply to celticlord2112)
    Profile   Post #: 50
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:48:38 AM   
    LotusSong


    Posts: 6334
    Joined: 7/2/2006
    From: Domme Emeritus
    Status: offline     		Ellen!
     
    You are about the only one who understood what I said in my post.
    I see more racism from "minorities" then the whites these days.  Poor Obama.. will he be been known in history as a GREAT president or just the first BLACK president?  Vote for the man and not the race! That's all I'm saying.
     
    I'm 1/8th Manx.  Do I claim to be an American or Manx American in hopes to pull the Manx vote from those Manx that want desperately to see a Manx president.  THAT's racism (or nationalism) in my book.

    _____________________________

    Life Lesson #1

    I'm not your type.
    I'm not inflatable.


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    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:49:27 AM   
    celticlord2112


    Posts: 5732
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    quote:

    Rhetorical question: when are rightards going to stop calling a single-payer system "socialized healthcare"? It's a complete lie to call it that.


    When the government pays, it's socialized.

    When the government tells you who to pay, it's socialized.

    When the government demands you pay, it's socialized.

    When the government lets you make these choices for yourself, it's privatized.

    Here endeth the lesson.


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    Profile   Post #: 52
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:51:41 AM   
    celticlord2112


    Posts: 5732
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    quote:

    At any rate, better to have all citizens covered, and have a three-week wait, than have 47 million Americans not being able to obtain wellness care at all.


    Personally, when I'm sick, I hate waiting for whatever I need to be healthy again.

    Yeah, I know, I'm putting me and mine first again.  Force of habit.  Comes from realizing that no one but me is able to care for me.


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    (in reply to Hippiekinkster)
    Profile   Post #: 53
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:53:07 AM   
    Hippiekinkster


    Posts: 5512
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    From: Liechtenstein
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

    quote:

    Rhetorical question: when are rightards going to stop calling a single-payer system "socialized healthcare"? It's a complete lie to call it that.


    When the government pays, it's socialized.

    When the government tells you who to pay, it's socialized.

    When the government demands you pay, it's socialized.

    When the government lets you make these choices for yourself, it's privatized.

    Here endeth the lesson.

    Well, I don't have a copy of the CelticLord dictionary. I use accepted definitions.

    (in reply to celticlord2112)
    Profile   Post #: 54
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:59:06 AM   
    Hippiekinkster


    Posts: 5512
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    From: Liechtenstein
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

    quote:

    At any rate, better to have all citizens covered, and have a three-week wait, than have 47 million Americans not being able to obtain wellness care at all.


    Personally, when I'm sick, I hate waiting for whatever I need to be healthy again.

    Yeah, I know, I'm putting me and mine first again.  Force of habit.  Comes from realizing that no one but me is able to care for me.

    Do you understand what "Preventive medicine" means? It means "preventive" as in heading off illness.

    Myths about Healthcare in Canada.
    http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/mythbusting-canadian-health-care-part-i  Read and learn.

    (in reply to celticlord2112)
    Profile   Post #: 55
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 9:32:32 AM   
    popeye1250


    Posts: 18104
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    From: New Hampshire
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: caitlyn

    General ...
     
    Perhaps I look at this differently, but I kind of admire the way Senator Obama discusses race. Speaking in Wisconsin, and discussing race, the mentioned how we need to bring everyone together, white, black and hispanic. Speaking in San Antonio, he mentioned how we need to bring everyone together, hispanic, white and black, and speaking in south Houston, he mentioned how we need to bring everyone together, black, white and hispanic.
     
    Some may see that as pandering to the crowd, but I don't. We have issues with race here in America. Not good, but it is, what it is. If someone wants to take a crack at bringing us together, who are we to question his methods. It isn't like any other methods we have used are working.
     
    In the end, I would rather have someone that will address these issues, rather than someone who will ignore them on the alter of politcal correctness.


    LOL, ah Caitlyn,..."Hispanic" is not a "race", it's an "ethnic group."

    I don't like Obama because he starts talking about a "humane" way of dealing with ..."undocumented" ...workers.
    And that can only mean some type of "amnesty" or "a path to citizenship."
    He's another one who thinks our laws are,....."optional."
    What's not "humane" about deportation?
    They may not "like" it but it's "humane" and it's,.....the law.

    < Message edited by popeye1250 -- 2/29/2008 9:44:10 AM >

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    Profile   Post #: 56
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 11:24:20 AM   
    celticlord2112


    Posts: 5732
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

    quote:

    At any rate, better to have all citizens covered, and have a three-week wait, than have 47 million Americans not being able to obtain wellness care at all.


    Personally, when I'm sick, I hate waiting for whatever I need to be healthy again.

    Yeah, I know, I'm putting me and mine first again. Force of habit. Comes from realizing that no one but me is able to care for me.

    Do you understand what "Preventive medicine" means? It means "preventive" as in heading off illness.

    Myths about Healthcare in Canada.
    http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/mythbusting-canadian-health-care-part-i Read and learn.


    Yawn....read that some time ago.....

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    Profile   Post #: 57
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 11:30:27 AM   
    Sinergy


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

    And Obama and the Democrats will actually spend on those items instead of the usual pork barrel bullshit?



    I know how worried you must be that the Democrats wont take a page from the Republican "How to Fuck Up The USA" playbook.

    Sinergy


    _____________________________

    "There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
    David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

    "Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


    (in reply to celticlord2112)
    Profile   Post #: 58
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 1:32:15 PM   
    popeye1250


    Posts: 18104
    Joined: 1/27/2006
    From: New Hampshire
    Status: offline     		And our government needs to stop spending so much of our money and taking loans out on our money and then spending money we don't even have yet.
    And, it's not "the govt's" money it's "The People's" money.

    _____________________________

    "But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

    (in reply to Sinergy)
    Profile   Post #: 59
    RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 1:44:49 PM   
    celticlord2112


    Posts: 5732
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Sinergy

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

    And Obama and the Democrats will actually spend on those items instead of the usual pork barrel bullshit?



    I know how worried you must be that the Democrats wont take a page from the Republican "How to Fuck Up The USA" playbook.

    Sinergy



    I'm not worried at all about that.  The Democrats have their own playbook, and it's just as creative and fucked up as the Republican version.  The same party that produced Billary (who, incidentally, goverened by coopting the Republican party platform, including support for NAFTA, welfare reform, and a letting go of the unversial healthcare albatross), also produced Jimmy Carter--he of stagflation, malaise, and limp-wristed handwringing when American citizens were held hostage in Iran.

    Bottom line:  Obama is a divider not a uniter.  He is Business as Usual, not Change.  He stands foursquare for higher taxes, less defense, more talk, less action, more bureaucracy, less liberty.

    With McCain, I only have to worry about less liberty.  In the contest to determine the lesser of two evils, he wins.


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