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RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 1:45:38 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

celtic- you sure dont mind the massive outsorucing, the degregs that leads to enron and the mortgage mess.


Offshoring and Enron, being distinctly 90s' phenomena, would be laid at Bill Clinton's feet, not Dubya's.  Telecom and utility deregulation in particular occurred during Billary's first go at being President.



Technically, it would be laid at the feet of the Republican controlled Congress, not the President.

Next!

Sinergy



So Obama's no longer running for President?

Excellent!!!  Things are looking better already!



Well, technically, Obama was not running in the 1990s.

Additionally, we no longer have a Republican controlled Congress in 2008.

Sorry to pop all your intellectual bubble wrap.

Sinergy


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(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 2:01:19 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		You are going to have to work a LOT harder if you intend to pop my intellectual anything.

Not that you aren't entertaining.  You are.


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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 2:18:30 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

celtic- you sure dont mind the massive outsorucing, the degregs that leads to enron and the mortgage mess.


Offshoring and Enron, being distinctly 90s' phenomena, would be laid at Bill Clinton's feet, not Dubya's.  Telecom and utility deregulation in particular occurred during Billary's first go at being President.

The mortgage mess is a black eye on both political parties, and on the financial organs of government in particular.  After all, the "subprime" borrowers at ground zero of that sordid business are the "working" people Obama presumes to celebrate.  There is blame aplenty for all participants, but there is no way to avoid the blunt reality that most "subprime" borrowers should never have been qualified for a mortgage to begin with.  No one held a gun to their heads and forced them to borrow money.  As a society, we have come to believe that credit is good--and that bit of bullshit transcends Democrat and Republican politicking.

I don't like the Republicans and I despise Dubya.  Three thousand families have flags in place of sons and daughters as a result of his reckless adventurism in Iraq.  However, the Democrats are beholden to at least as many special interests (if not more) as the Republicans, which makes Obama's neo-Marxist rhetoric ludicrous and dangerously naive. 

Between McCain and Obama, McCain is more likely to leave more of my money in my pocket--which is exactly where I want it.



you must have a high income. --bait and switch-teaser rates- fixed for 3 years. -one can not really back out -a certain point of the home buying process there is a point where it is --lump taking time... they know it they exploit it.  inadequate discloure and too late.  gotcha gone biserk.

i dont mean telecom- i mean natural gas and electric.

-outsourcing- those products- are not inclusive of the  infastruture costs that made it possible. thus dereg is a failure.

i plan to vote for Ron Paul.   IMO the want to be rich think they are rich...which is not the same thing.



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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 2:35:59 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:


you must have a high income. --bait and switch-teaser rates- fixed for 3 years. -one can not really back out -a certain point of the home buying process there is a point where it is --lump taking time... they know it they exploit it. inadequate discloure and too late. gotcha gone biserk.


Would you mind restating this in coherent, organized sentences?


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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 3:12:30 PM   
Mercnbeth


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~ Fast Reply ~
 
How does; "Ask not what your county can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." relate to the Obama campaign?

Ummm come to think of it, how does it relate at all to the Democratic party given they are running on a platform of entitlements? Health care, bail out of the fools with balloon or negative amortization mortgages, education subsidiaries, meal programs; where is THAT JFK comparison?

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 4:34:18 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
 
How does; "Ask not what your county can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." relate to the Obama campaign?

Ummm come to think of it, how does it relate at all to the Democratic party given they are running on a platform of entitlements? Health care, bail out of the fools with balloon or negative amortization mortgages, education subsidiaries, meal programs; where is THAT JFK comparison?


Mercnbeth, good question.
I remember taking ten mile hikes as a kid because JFK said it would be good for kids to do so.
If Obama went up through Chicago ward politics he's already corrupt!
And comming from that area he's probably not friendly to the second amendment.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 5:26:31 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Something is troubling me.  Obama is 1/2 black and 1/2 white yet seems to identify as totally black.  With the black community wondering if he's "black enough".. I'm wondering if his non-acknowledgment of his white half is a sign of not being "white" enough.
 
He is in the situation of being able to flip-flop between races as will benefit him. 



I went to school with Obama...and the funny thing is...he's white.

112%, bone...china white.  I swear he wouldn't know okra if he saw it.

I can't count how many times I spent Saturday nights with the guy giving him perms, coloring his hair...we both saved up our money and bought a really nice clamshell tanning booth...prick took it with him....claimed a tax deduction on the fucking thing too....the fucker was in there 3 hours a day...I swear, if he gets elected....he's gonna die in 3 years due to skin cancer....but anyway....the fucker's white as white gets.   He's actually Norwegian.

(I actually have pictures of him with the Swedish skiing team in July....couldn't get the pictures to come out right because of the suns fucking rays bouncing off him).

All that South African shit...that was all entirely an election gambit....the boy is bone china...seriously....

Anyway...I wish him well....I mean, the guy was my fucking roommate after all.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 5:31:39 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Mark Shields, way back before Obama even declared his candidacy, referred to him as a 10,000 watt light bulb.

I think he will rout McCain in landslide, garnering close to 95% of all the swing voters.

He's the most transcendent candidate I've seen in my adult lifetime, and his core mission to dismantle the Republican-Democratic / Conservative - Liberal divides in the USA is a worthy goal.

His ascendancy may also mark the death knell of the ultra-right as a viable force in American politics -- because that's the only group who views democrats as more dangerous than terrorists and political compromise as political betrayal. This kind of dogmatic extremism has been damaging to our country.

If the Republicans cannot make themselves more centrist --- than I think folks will be moving away from their platform en masse.

Guns, Taxes, Abortion, Race Baiting, Gay Bashing, xenophobia, and excessive militarism aren't really doing the average centrist American any good. It would be nice to see the latter replaced with infrastructure spending, balanced budget concerns, streamlining health-care costs, and new transportation and environmental policies.

The fact that McCain is the Republican nominee suggests that this shift is already in place.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/29/2008 5:37:04 PM >

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RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 5:58:53 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

I can't count how many times I spent Saturday nights with the guy giving him perms, coloring his hair...we both saved up our money and bought a really nice clamshell tanning booth...prick took it with him....claimed a tax deduction on the fucking thing too....the fucker was in there 3 hours a day...I swear, if he gets elected....he's gonna die in 3 years due to skin cancer....but anyway....the fucker's white as white gets.   He's actually Norwegian.




-----------

We saw Obama "reject" that jackass Farrakhan, now it seems McCain is being called upon to do the same, with goofball John Hagee.....

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 6:29:29 PM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Race is a social construct; in Genetics, "race" has a very specific meaning, and the variations in the human genome do not qualify.

As for CelticLord's rant about "class warfare", well, that cracks me up. The rethugs have been attacking the middle class for years.


I read his speeches.  One does not unite people by setting up "us" vs. "them" divisions; villifying the top 2% income bracket while extolling the "working" people is class warfare rhetoric--by definition.  If you wish to debate the merits of that division, we can do so (because your assertion is provably wrong)--but to suggest that it is anything other than class warfare rhetoric is disingenuous.



Oh for heaven's sake. You're villifying a Democratic candidate for using Us vs. Them language?  That's hilarious.  Thanks.  Moving on ...

"Warfare"? 

Revising a tax cut is class "warfare"?

Hmmmmm ...

Was it Class Warfare aimed the other way when those very same tax cuts were put into place? 

If not, why does your knife only cut one way?

You may have some compelling things to say. Please note how likely they are to sink out of sight beneath the sort of oh-so-dramatic hyperbole in which you dress your contentions here.

We all know what warfare is, class or otherwise. Addressing what one sees as failed tax policy in a way that would impose zero hardship on any citizen just isn't it.

Now please don't torture the word "hardship" as you have "warfare" and "villify", by claiming that dampening someone's urge to keep the third house or buy the fourth car qualifies as imposing hardship upon them.

A candidate forthrightly (whether rightly or wrongly) claims that certain tax cuts, insofar as they affected the richest 2%, amounted to bad policy. He expresses his intention to address that (in his opinion) poor tax policy.

This  comes nowhere near any reasonable definition of "villifying" the people who benefitted from the policy. 

Your argument is just silly, as you've presented it so far. Are there terms in which you can re-cast it so that something of interest and concern can be found in it?

If the case you wish to promote is worth making in a public discussion, it is worth making on it's merits without the sorts of highly emotional and contrary-to-standard-English characterizations ("warfare" "villifying") you place so close to the heart of your message.

Style wise, less Limbaugh/Coulter and more William F. Buckley from you would advance the the interplay of ideas.

By the way, can you explain why Obama is polling so well among the more well-to-do if he is locked in a pitched battle against them?

Thanks
 

(in reply to celticlord2112)
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RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 6:38:25 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
They may not "like" it but it's "humane" and it's,.....the law.

popeye:
In one post you advocate burning down houses when you don't get your way...but when it comes to Mexicans you are all for obeying the law....whaddup dude?  One set of laws for the Mexicans and a different set of laws for you?
thompson






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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 7:42:46 PM   
FangsNfeet


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Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Even as a middle class five digit anual income citizen, I support the rich. After all, becoming rich is a goal of mine. Why would I want to hate and attack something that I am striving to become? Most people who are rich either earned it or atleast had to fight hard to stay that way.

Tax Breaks for the comapany I work for means a bigger bonus. It also allow us to higher more help.  Higher taxes on my company will mean less raises and more mandatory overtime.

At any rate, it's ironic to see rich politicians campaigning about how the rich need to pay/suffer so the middle class can take things easy.

I never viewed a rich person as an enemy. They're just people who made it while I'm still striving to catch up. Hell, they're not even keeping me down. Most of the rich and the corporations do there best to offer help with education, training, and giving promotional opportunites to those who are willing to work for it. Higher fees on my company could mean that I'll get less of a tuition reinbursment meaning that it's the government that's trying to keep me down versus the rich corporations. 

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RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 8:09:46 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Even as a middle class five digit anual income citizen, I support the rich. After all, becoming rich is a goal of mine. Why would I want to hate and attack something that I am striving to become? Most people who are rich either earned it or atleast had to fight hard to stay that way.
ROFLMAO

Tax Breaks for the comapany I work for means a bigger bonus. It also allow us to higher more help.  Higher taxes on my company will mean less raises and more mandatory overtime.
ROFLMAO


At any rate, it's ironic to see rich politicians campaigning about how the rich need to pay/suffer so the middle class can take things easy.
A five figure income does not make you middle class...the poverty level is around $20,000 more if you have a wife and kids. 
Why do you equate the rich paying their fair share with suffering?Why do you think the middle class would be taking things easy if the rich do pay their fair share?


I never viewed a rich person as an enemy. They're just people who made it while I'm still striving to catch up. Hell, they're not even keeping me down. Most of the rich and the corporations do there best to offer help with education, training, and giving promotional opportunites to those who are willing to work for it.
Most implies something significantly larger than a simple majority...since it is unlikely that you are personally acquainted with even 51% of the heads of business in this country your statement seems more than a bit presumptuous.

Higher fees on my company could mean that I'll get less of a tuition reinbursment meaning that it's the government that's trying to keep me down versus the rich corporations. 
You don't read much history do you?



< Message edited by thompsonx -- 2/29/2008 8:13:22 PM >

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RE: My Concern About Obama - 2/29/2008 9:35:20 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Even as a middle class five digit anual income citizen, I support the rich. After all, becoming rich is a goal of mine. Why would I want to hate and attack something that I am striving to become? Most people who are rich either earned it or atleast had to fight hard to stay that way.

Tax Breaks for the comapany I work for means a bigger bonus. It also allow us to higher more help.  Higher taxes on my company will mean less raises and more mandatory overtime.

At any rate, it's ironic to see rich politicians campaigning about how the rich need to pay/suffer so the middle class can take things easy.

I never viewed a rich person as an enemy. They're just people who made it while I'm still striving to catch up. Hell, they're not even keeping me down. Most of the rich and the corporations do there best to offer help with education, training, and giving promotional opportunites to those who are willing to work for it. Higher fees on my company could mean that I'll get less of a tuition reinbursment meaning that it's the government that's trying to keep me down versus the rich corporations. 
Ah hahaha this is some very funny shit. Did Karl write it for you?

If I get really bored, I'll deconstruct this sentence by sentence. I have a reputation for doing such elegantly and with painstaking detail elsewhere. It's an awfully easy target, though.

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: My Concern About Obama - 3/1/2008 7:06:39 AM   
bipolarber


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Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Interesting. "I don't like Obama because he's not black/white enough to suit me." Strange, I was always taught that America was supposed to be this huge "melting pot" for the races. That ultimately, anyone has as much of a chance to succeed here as another. That it depends on your own personal abilities and drives to how far you'll get. (and a lot of luck... that whole Forrest Gump box of chocolates thing.)

So far in this election, we've managed to discard people for being too Mormon, too hispanic, too old, too religious, too 9/11, and too indifferent. Now we're trying to discard one of the better candidates left because he's not black or white enough.
Figures.

I was wondering how long it would take for the racist republican party to start stirring up THIS argument.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: My Concern About Obama - 3/1/2008 5:48:53 PM   
cloudboy


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Your sarcasm detector is off. Switch it back on!!!

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RE: My Concern About Obama - 3/1/2008 5:54:40 PM   
DementedGirl


Posts: 172
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		Ralph Nader for President! 4th time is the charm


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RE: My Concern About Obama - 3/1/2008 6:00:34 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

celtic- you sure dont mind the massive outsorucing, the degregs that leads to enron and the mortgage mess.


Offshoring and Enron, being distinctly 90s' phenomena, would be laid at Bill Clinton's feet, not Dubya's.  Telecom and utility deregulation in particular occurred during Billary's first go at being President. 


"and Enron"
 
Oh really?
 
 Did Kennith Lay have his own private White House office,phone line and letter-head in Bill Clinton`s time,like he did during dubya`s presidency?

 

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: My Concern About Obama - 3/1/2008 7:49:57 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Somtimes you are just hug-o-licious. Way to look beyond the hoopla.

This follows along what I've been saying, all this noise about something new and a new direction and all I can see is politics as it has always been. Same shit, different face. It looks like he might be working the angles instead of the issues.

Bull

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Something is troubling me.  Obama is 1/2 black and 1/2 white yet seems to identify as totally black.  With the black community wondering if he's "black enough".. I'm wondering if his non-acknowledgment of his white half is a sign of not being "white" enough.
 
He is in the situation of being able to flip-flop between races as will benefit him.  I'm watching him closely. 
 
Will we vote for the person or the novelty of his race?  Same with Hillary.. will we vote for the person or the novelty of the gender?




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I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: My Concern About Obama - 3/2/2008 6:23:01 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:


you must have a high income. --bait and switch-teaser rates- fixed for 3 years. -one can not really back out -a certain point of the home buying process there is a point where it is --lump taking time... they know it they exploit it. inadequate discloure and too late. gotcha gone biserk.


Would you mind restating this in coherent, organized sentences?



Simply stated a  mortgage these days- [keep in mind I bought my place April 2007] the true disclosure of the terms happens very late into the home buying process. Alot of things have to line up when you move from say renting an apartment to purchasing a home. The fine print is often garbled- so much so that it is difficult to understand the terms. One signs  maybe 40 times....  there is not enough time humanly possible to read every word of every form.  So alot of trust is placed on the person who hands you the form to summarize what it says. I was told I read more then others during my transaction; which is mindboggling. You see I either bought this house or I would be on the street. So I breazed thru it.

Anyhow- in my case I can pay my note. But I certainly understand how a person can be swindled. The process has become like buying a used car.

As to taxes-no one likes them. I just got my real estate tax and it is eye popping. 

The point is- at a certain point of buying a house- it is too late to turn back.  This is when you wiehgh all the costs. So  you do what you think you must do at the time. This urgency is how the laon brokers know you will continue cause it is to late to back out.  yes one could- in my case I did not want to be on the street. So I went along. EVEN THO THE DAY BEFORE I was slammed!   Yup.  3%.  Close the next day and eat 3% or pay $100 a day penalty while we hash it out.  So I closed.  Later I took them to small claims. On appeal - I need an attorey to navigate any further- and I was not about to pay $200 an hour.


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