RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (Full Version)

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caitlyn -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/17/2008 8:59:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I have thrown nothing anywhere. 


I didn't say that you did. Obviously, I was talking about Pastor Wright.
 
I haven't seem anyone prove any of these statements as accurate. As it stands now, they are unproven statements.
 
Unproven statements are, what they are.




MsBearlee -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/17/2008 9:15:13 AM)

Merc,
 
The other day I listened to a well-done interview of Steven Waldman (author of Founding Fathers).  There is a fabulous page (http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/liberating_the_founders/) where you can either listen to the interview and/or read more about it.  Be sure to click “Particulars”, under Program Details for an annotated guide to the program; complete with more information, images and of course more links!
 
I believe you’d find this interesting; talk about current and relevant.  LOL
 
Beverly




luckydog1 -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/17/2008 11:05:08 AM)

Thompson several of us have pointed out his false statement that the USA created AIDS on purpose to kill off the blacks.  Now it is up to you to give evidence that is true, since you claim it is.  A book about Gulf War Syndrome (from a discredited guy) does not proove that the USA created AIDS on purpose to kill blacks.  Now if you want to assert that the claim is true, back it up.  Don't change the subject.  Don't get snippy, just give some evidence.  Or admit that not everything the pastor teaches is true. 




Muttling -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/17/2008 11:25:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I have thrown nothing anywhere. 


I didn't say that you did. Obviously, I was talking about Pastor Wright.
 
I haven't seem anyone prove any of these statements as accurate. As it stands now, they are unproven statements.
 
Unproven statements are, what they are.



ummm...I'm not up to date on this thread.   Are you saying that you don't believe Pastor Wright made these statements?



There are clips of him on YouTube making them and he has not denied making them.  Senator Obama has not denied that he made them and has said that he doesn't agree with some of the things that Pastor Wright has said. 

FURTHERMORE, Senator Obama fired him from his campain staff after these comments came out.


Seems to me if the statements were misrepresentations of his words that he and Senator Obama would be going after that angle instead of Obama trying to distance himself from from the his pastor of 20 year.


(My apologies if I misunderstand your statements and went off on an unrelated tangent.)




thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Quotes from IBM's Pastor (3/17/2008 11:53:43 AM)

n
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I have asked repeatedly for you or anyone else to tell me of something that the preacher man has said that is untrue. 

thomp,
The "truth" behind Reverend Wright's anti-USA diatribe isn't the issue.

I would have thought that truth was more important than rhetoric.

The goal for Senator Obama is for him to be elected. The Senator's 20 year affiliation and his verified support of the Church economically and philosophically is the reason for the Reverend's notoriety today.
This would seem to be not only a reflection on Senator Obama but also the electorate who is so up in arms about the truth that they do not want to hear.


"God Damn America!"

Would you prefer to say God Bless America for supporting slavery?
Would you prefer to say God Bless America for supporting apartheid?
Would you prefer to say God Bless America for denigrating black women.
Would you prefer to say God Bless America for segregation?
Would you prefer to say God Bless America for engaging in biologic warfare on its own citizens?
Would you prefer to say God Bless America for engaging in wars of aggrandizement?

will be played daily until November. It will be referenced by Senator Clinton and if Senator Obama prevails in Denver, it will be played more often and louder until November. Coming out of the convention, there will be a 'Kum Bah-Ya' moment. Senators Clinton and Obama may even end up on the same ticket. However, the Reverend's rants will remain campaign issues.
Why is it that when we disagree with the truth it is called a rant?


As a side note, Senator Obama is distancing himself from the Reverend. I see that as a mistake. Better to take your position and debate the "truth" than to seem the hypocrite that he is, by trying to play the senile 'uncle' card. "Truth" doesn't necessarily help a Presidential candidate. Perception and 'buzz-words' seem to be the only motivating factors. There are a larger group of folks that will say the Obama/Wright affiliation is something they can't and will never vote for, than there are those who would consider the "truth" behind any of the statements; no matter how red, large and bold they are.
V ring 6 o'clock
thompson





thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/17/2008 12:28:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I have thrown nothing anywhere. 


I didn't say that you did. Obviously, I was talking about Pastor Wright.
 
I haven't seem anyone prove any of these statements as accurate. As it stands now, they are unproven statements.
Is it an unproven statement that slavery was officially sanctioned by the U.S, government  from the beginning of this nation until after the civil war?
Is it an unproven statement that segregation was sanctioned by the U.S, government from "Plessy vs. Fergeson to Brown vs. Board of education?
Is it an unproven statement that the U.S. government Dropped Atomic bombs on Japan?
Is it an unproven statement that the U.S. government has and does engage in biologic warfare against its own citizens?
Is it an unproven statement that Farrakhan is a man of integrity and honesty?
 
 
Unproven statements are, what they are.
So just where are the unproven statements?
 




thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/17/2008 12:58:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Thompson several of us have pointed out his false statement that the USA created AIDS on purpose to kill off the blacks.
When you prove it is not true then that will be a true statement.

Now it is up to you to give evidence that is true, since you claim it is. 

That is your statement not my statement....why are you trying to put words in my mouth?  Why are you trying to get me to defend what you say?
What I said was "what has the preacher man said that is untrue".
How about you challenge me on what I say instead of what you want to hear me say so you can disagree with me.  I realize that it is more difficult but then you do not seem to be interested in discussing what I actually say. 

A book about Gulf War Syndrome (from a discredited guy) does not proove that the USA created AIDS on purpose to kill blacks.
After you have actually read the book we can discuss it. 
Who besides you has discredited the author?

Now if you want to assert that the claim is true, back it up.  Don't change the subject.  Don't get snippy,
When they make you a mod then you can tell me how to post.

just give some evidence.  Or admit that not everything the pastor teaches is true.
When you have some evidence that what the preacher man says is not true get back to me.
Ten strike outs in a row....damn I am good[;)]
whose next?





thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/17/2008 1:11:01 PM)

;d
quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I have thrown nothing anywhere. 


I didn't say that you did. Obviously, I was talking about Pastor Wright.
 
I haven't seem anyone prove any of these statements as accurate. As it stands now, they are unproven statements.
 
Unproven statements are, what they are.



ummm...I'm not up to date on this thread.   Are you saying that you don't believe Pastor Wright made these statements?
 
There is no doubt that he said them.  The question is how true are they.  So far no one seems to be able to prove that any of his statements are untrue....unpleasant for some but so far no one has been able to come up with any proof that he is wrong and many of his statements have been shown to be factually true.



There are clips of him on YouTube making them and he has not denied making them.  Senator Obama has not denied that he made them and has said that he doesn't agree with some of the things that Pastor Wright has said. 

FURTHERMORE, Senator Obama fired him from his campain staff after these comments came out.
I was not aware that the preacher man was on Obama's campaign staff.



Seems to me if the statements were misrepresentations of his words that he and Senator Obama would be going after that angle instead of Obama trying to distance himself from from the his pastor of 20 year.
That would seem to be a typical behavior pattern of a politician.

(My apologies if I misunderstand your statements and went off on an unrelated tangent.)




Mercnbeth -> RE: Interesting Quotes from IBM's Pastor (3/17/2008 1:16:46 PM)

Thomp,
Your validity takes a beating when you neglect the points you obviously want to avoid.

Lets focus on one. Aids and African Americans?

AIDS was developed by the US to kill Blacks - fact?

But again, the goal is to get Senator Obama elected. Please explain how his affiliation with the Reverend helps his campaign?




celticlord2112 -> RE: Interesting Quotes from IBM's Pastor (3/17/2008 1:23:30 PM)

Thompsonx., a simple "no" would have been quite sufficient to answer my question.  You have already demonstrated that to be the case.




luckydog1 -> RE: Interesting Quotes from IBM's Pastor (3/17/2008 1:44:55 PM)

Well said, thompson, you make an excellent case for supporting Obama.  My hats off to you.  Please spread the word far and wide.  I hope you are an activist in other forums as well, and even better in real life.  You should start one of those "independant" advocay groups (C-4s, I think they call them now, keeps changing).  I'll help you buy TV ads.


There certainly is no way to argue with logic like this,


"Thompson several of us have pointed out his false statement that the USA created AIDS on purpose to kill off the blacks.
When you prove it is not true then that will be a true statement.

Now it is up to you to give evidence that is true, since you claim it is. 

That is your statement not my statement....why are you trying to put words in my mouth?  Why are you trying to get me to defend what you say?
What I said was "what has the preacher man said that is untrue". "

"




thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Quotes from IBM's Pastor (3/17/2008 2:03:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Thomp,
Your validity takes a beating when you neglect the points you obviously want to avoid.
First lest go back and look at what I said.  I simply asked what the preacher man said that was not true.
 
Lets focus on one. Aids and African Americans?
Does this mean that you are agreeing that everything else he said is true....if it does then stand up and say so.
As to the specific question I have already responded to it.  Read "Vaccine A" by Gary Matsumoto.  After you have read this book then lets discuss this issue.
AIDS was developed by the US to kill Blacks - fact?

But again, the goal is to get Senator Obama elected. Please explain how his affiliation with the Reverend helps his campaign?
This is not MY goal.
I would like to make it abundantly clear to all the red/blue knee jerk (I do not necessarily classify you as one of them)my team vs. your team people in the whole world....I could give a fuck less about this or any other politician.
If they were to take every politician out and shoot them at sunrise for treason I would buy coffee and donuts for anyone who cared to come and watch.
I am commenting only on what the preacher man said.  None of what he said do I find to be unbelievable.  Most of which is absolutely true and is clearly provable to anyone who cares to read American history.
That which is not provable would seem highly plausible given the numerous cases of the U.S. government carrying on consistant biological warfare against its own citizens going back more than seventy years.





thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Quotes from IBM's Pastor (3/17/2008 2:11:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Thompsonx., a simple "no" would have been quite sufficient to answer my question.  You have already demonstrated that to be the case.


celticlord:
Why do you ask me questions if you plan on answering them yourself?
thompson









Level -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/17/2008 3:22:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

If you will simply check my response to Level you will see my rebuttal to his assertions.
thompson


And yet, you proved nothing.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Interesting Quotes from IBM's Pastor (3/17/2008 3:37:12 PM)

(not worth getting moderated)




thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/17/2008 7:28:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

If you will simply check my response to Level you will see my rebuttal to his assertions.
thompson


And yet, you proved nothing.

Level:
Is it really necessary to prove that there was government sanctioned slavery in the U.S.
Is it really necessary to prove that the U.S. government supported apartheid in South Africa by using its security council veto to stop sanctions?
Is it really necessary to prove that the U.S. dropped atomic bombs on Japan.
Is it really necessary to prove that the U.S. practiced segregation?
Is it really necessary to prove that the U.S. has engaged in wars of self aggrandizement?
Is it really necessary to prove that Farrakhan is a truthful black leader with integrity?  What has he lied about?  When has his integrity ever been called into question?
Come on you are more astute than that.
thompson









thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Quotes from IBM's Pastor (3/17/2008 7:38:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Well said, thompson, you make an excellent case for supporting Obama. 
My hats off to you.  Please spread the word far and wide.  I hope you are an activist in other forums as well, and even better in real life.  You should start one of those "independant" advocay groups (C-4s, I think they call them now, keeps changing).  I'll help you buy TV ads.
There certainly is no way to argue with logic like this.

lucky:
How did you come to the conclusion that I support Obama?
My statement was "What has the preacher man said that was untrue?"
Since you have disregarded all but the comment about aids you seem, by default, to be  admitting that all the other things he said are in fact true.
As soon as you finish reading "Vaccine A" we can discuss this final point of contention.
thompson
 








luckydog1 -> RE: Interesting Quotes from IBM's Pastor (3/18/2008 1:49:14 AM)

Start a PAC thompson, I will help you buy TV ads. 

Why don't you read the "color of leprosy", that will proove beyond any doubt that the Pastors specific allegation is false.  So there we go, stalemate..... 




Level -> RE: Interesting Quotes from IBM's Pastor (3/18/2008 3:50:51 AM)

quote:

blamed America for starting the AIDS virus
Please read "Vaccine A" by Gary Matsumoto before you toss that one.


You're saying that book will prove that the United States created AIDS?

quote:

creating a racist society that would never elect a black candidate president.
That would appear to still hold true.


The fact that a black man is steamrolling towards the White House, and drawing huge, enthusiastic crowds, puts that claim to rest, for me.

quote:

Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run.

Yup...still holds true.


This country was founded on a number of things, and of course, racism and slavery existed. But to put the founding, in its entirety, on racism? No.
 
To say that everything is still propelled by racism, today? No.

quote:

No black man will ever be considered for president

This one will fall only if Obama gets the nomination.  Even then I am sure you are quite aware that presidents are appointed in this country and not elected so I will still consider this one true until Obama finishes his first term...Don't forget how long the first catholic lasted.



He is already being "considered". He leads the Democratic party race.
 
If by "appointed" you mean some sort of Illuminati-ish behind the scenes machinations....... [8|]

quote:

No black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body

Care to hazard a guess how many posts have been on these boards about getting nake with "Condamnisia Rice"



I'd like to fuck her myself, but that doesn't impact on whether I think she's capable in other things. She's a talented and accomplished woman. Surely you don't base your entire world-view on what some posters here think?

quote:

We put [Nelson] Mandela in prison and supported apartheid the whole 27 years he was there.

True again.  The U.S. even used its security council veto power to prevent an oil embargo on S.Africa and supplied S.Africa with the tools to subjugate its indigenous population.


Our government did not oppose apartheid the way we should have, I agree, but many individual citizens did, including white ones. However, I've yet to see evidence that any Americans flew to South Africa and threw Mr. Mandela into a jail cell. 


quote:

We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God."

Yup...pretty self evident


Some do...... but the numbers grow smaller, I believe. To smear the American nation in its entirety is weak, and wrong, on Rev Wright's part.

quote:

Wright is quoted in the magazine offering praise of Farrakhan "as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African American religious experience" and also praised Farrakhan's "integrity and honesty."

What do you have to indicate that Farrakhan is not honest?
What do you have to indicate that Farrakhan is not a man of integrity?
You may be uncomfortable with what he says but sometimes the truth is "inconvenient"



quote:

Hitler was a very great man


O-kay, if you or Rev Wright want to hold Farrakhan up as a model of integrity.......




thompsonx -> RE: Interesting Quotes from IBM's Pastor (3/18/2008 5:03:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

blamed America for starting the AIDS virus
Please read "Vaccine A" by Gary Matsumoto before you toss that one.


You're saying that book will prove that the United States created AIDS?
No...read the book and then we can discuss this question.

quote:

creating a racist society that would never elect a black candidate president.
That would appear to still hold true.


The fact that a black man is steamrolling towards the White House, and drawing huge, enthusiastic crowds, puts that claim to rest, for me.
When and if that happens...until then his claim still holds.
 
 
quote:

Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run.

Yup...still holds true.


This country was founded on a number of things, and of course, racism and slavery existed. But to put the founding, in its entirety, on racism? No.
 
To say that everything is still propelled by racism, today? No.
Perhaps not being black might "color" your judgment on this point.
 
 
 
quote:

No black man will ever be considered for president

This one will fall only if Obama gets the nomination.  Even then I am sure you are quite aware that presidents are appointed in this country and not elected so I will still consider this one true until Obama finishes his first term...Don't forget how long the first catholic lasted.



He is already being "considered". He leads the Democratic party race.
 
If by "appointed" you mean some sort of Illuminati-ish behind the scenes machinations....... [8|]
Only if you feel the electoral college and the legislature that appoints them are the Illuminati.
 
 
quote:

No black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body

Care to hazard a guess how many posts have been on these boards about getting nake with "Condamnisia Rice"



I'd like to fuck her myself, but that doesn't impact on whether I think she's capable in other things. She's a talented and accomplished woman. Surely you don't base your entire world-view on what some posters here think?
I am sure you would agree that the people who post on here represent a cross sectional microcosm of our country.
 
 
quote:

We put [Nelson] Mandela in prison and supported apartheid the whole 27 years he was there.

True again.  The U.S. even used its security council veto power to prevent an oil embargo on S.Africa and supplied S.Africa with the tools to subjugate its indigenous population.


Our government did not oppose apartheid the way we should have, I agree, but many individual citizens did, including white ones. However, I've yet to see evidence that any Americans flew to South Africa and threw Mr. Mandela into a jail cell.
As I am sure you are well aware the preacher man is referring to the U.S. government and the individuals who lobbied for this sort of proactive stance vis-a-vis South Africa and the system of apartheid.
 
quote:

We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God."

Yup...pretty self evident


Some do...... but the numbers grow smaller, I believe. To smear the American nation in its entirety is weak, and wrong, on Rev Wright's part.
Do you think that will happen before our sun implodes?  If people like the preacher man do not speak out how will it ever change?  The blot of racism falls on all of us so it is our collective responsibility to erase it.  Unless and until it is erased we share its collective blame.

quote:

Wright is quoted in the magazine offering praise of Farrakhan "as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African American religious experience" and also praised Farrakhan's "integrity and honesty."

What do you have to indicate that Farrakhan is not honest?
What do you have to indicate that Farrakhan is not a man of integrity?
You may be uncomfortable with what he says but sometimes the truth is "inconvenient"



quote:

Hitler was a very great man


O-kay, if you or Rev Wright want to hold Farrakhan up as a model of integrity.......

If you are going to quote Farrakhan don't you feel it would be fair to quote him in his entirety?
"So I said to the members of the press, 'Why won't you go and look into what we are saying about the threats on Reverend Jackson's life?' Here the Jews don't like Farrakhan and so they call me 'Hitler'. Well that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man. He wasn't great for me as a Black man but he was a great German and he rose Germany up from the ashes of her defeat by the united force of all of Europe and America after the First World War. Yet Hitler took Germany from the ashes and rose her up and made her the greatest fighting machine of the twentieth century, brothers and sisters, and even though Europe and America had deciphered the code that Hitler was using to speak to his chiefs of staff, they still had trouble defeating Hitler even after knowing his plans in advance. Now I'm not proud of Hitler's evil toward Jewish people, but that's a matter of record. He rose Germany up from nothing. Well, in a sense you could say there is a similarity in that we are rising our people up from nothing, but don't compare me with your wicked killers.






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