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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 5:09:37 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Opinions vary. I can, however, say with complete certainty that I have never voted a moron into office. Never had *my* president do something stupid during his term and never had anyone make fun of *my* president. Can you say the same?


Quite emphatically.  Never voted for Bush.  Never voted for Clinton.  I have voted in every election since I was old enough to vote.

We already know you can't say the same.

You have much to learn.


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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 5:19:55 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Feels a bit strange to be on the same side of an issue doesn't it CelticLord,but than this isn't an issue or even debateble.There is no justification or rationalization for not exercising your franchise.Its citizenship 101

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 5:22:56 PM   
Smith117


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Quite emphatically.  Never voted for Bush.  Never voted for Clinton.  I have voted in every election since I was old enough to vote.

We already know you can't say the same.



Once again, opinions vary. You never voted for Clinton or Bush.....and you see what a difference that's made, right? Here we are, both not having a voted in a moron president. But you've wasted your time and I have not.

I would argue, though, that if the other candidate in each of those past elections actually got in, I would still be able to say I've not voted a moron in, but you would not.

You have much to learn yourself, bub.

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 5:25:27 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Feels a bit strange to be on the same side of an issue doesn't it CelticLord,but than this isn't an issue or even debateble.There is no justification or rationalization for not exercising your franchise.Its citizenship 101


Not strange at all to me.  Good argument is the stuff good democracy is made of, as far as I'm concerned.

Well said and well met.


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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 5:28:11 PM   
Smith117


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
There is no justification or rationalization for not exercising your franchise.Its citizenship 101


Actually there is indeed justification. I'll refer back to the old song lyrics "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." I'm not picking between sucky candidate #1 and sucky candidate #2. I chose "none of the above."

I honestly wonder what would happen if elections took the same stance as some contests I have seen. In the contests to which I am refering, if there is no entry 'good enough' to take the top award....it's not awarded at all. They don't award crap work. Either you make the grade or you don't.

Essentially, our election process means, if someone wins with only 30% of the votes, but the other candidates had less, that person is our president. It also means then, that 70% of the populace did NOT vote that person in, yet they are subject to the same president as the rest.

I wonder what would happen if they initiated a rule....."You must take 60% to 70% of the votes to be elected, or the election process begins again." I think in that instance we might *actually* see people worthy of being in office. It's hard to argue when 70% of the population wants a person in office. Yet somehow there is always argument when that same number of poeple did *not* want the president in office.

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 5:34:58 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Once again, opinions vary. You never voted for Clinton or Bush.....and you see what a difference that's made, right? Here we are, both not having a voted in a moron president. But you've wasted your time and I have not.


You have that backwards.  Sitting at home on election day is the waste of time.

quote:

I would argue, though, that if the other candidate in each of those past elections actually got in, I would still be able to say I've not voted a moron in, but you would not.


Wrong again.  Never voted for Dole, Gore, or Kerry either.  Or Ralph Nader.

I did vote for Bush's daddy, but I'm on solid ground that he wasn't a moron.

So far, all you can say is that you've not voted.  Strange thing to brag about. 


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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 5:38:14 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		So this is improvement you have moved from a comedian to a songwriter claiming there is no one of enough stature to justify your voting is nothing more than misplaced ego.this isn't your virginity here .You don't have to wait for the right guy and yes we will respect you in the morning.

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 5:39:00 PM   
Smith117


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

You have that backwards.  Sitting at home on election day is the waste of time.



I never wasted my time. Because I did not vote for someone who lost.

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Wrong again.  Never voted for Dole, Gore, or Kerry either.  Or Ralph Nader.



And look where that got you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

I did vote for Bush's daddy, but I'm on solid ground that he wasn't a moron.



No, he was just a liar. "No new taxes." Ring a bell? I guess then, that would make those who put him in power the morons since they bought his bullshit and it bit them in the ass.

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

So far, all you can say is that you've not voted.  Strange thing to brag about. 



You misunderstand. I'm not happy I never voted. I'm sad that I've never been shown a candidate that I felt was worthy of the job. I refuse to make the presidency of this country a consolation prize for the guy who sucked less. That's essentially how it is now, but I can at least choose not to participate.

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:00:32 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Essentially, our election process means, if someone wins with only 30% of the votes, but the other candidates had less, that person is our president. It also means then, that 70% of the populace did NOT vote that person in, yet they are subject to the same president as the rest.


Your math is as faulty as your rhetoric.

If you don't vote, you're neither in the 30% nor the 70%.  Take 10 registered voters.  3 vote for McCain, 2 vote for Clinton, 5 stay home.  McCain gets 60% of the vote, not 30%.  If those 5 votes go to 3rd party candidates instead, then no candidate gets a majority.

By not voting, you turn a minority candidate into a majority candidate.


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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:01:39 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

I'm not happy I never voted.

That makes two of us.

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:02:09 PM   
Smith117


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

By not voting, you turn a minority candidate into a majority candidate.



And what has your voting choice gotten you?

Also, your reading ability is as faulty as you claimed my math was. I never mentioned 'not voting' in my scenario. I simply said if you had a few candidates, and they all spread the votes out evenly, it was then possible for one to be elected with only 30 percent of the votes, so long as the other candidates got less than that 30 percent.

If there were 5 candidates, and Candidate A got 30%, Candidate B got 20%, Candidate C got 20%, Candidate D got 20% and Candidate E got 10%, then Candidate A wins. And that means that 70% of those who voted did not want Candidate A, they wanted someone else. Yet Candidate A still wins.

< Message edited by Smith117 -- 3/22/2008 6:09:26 PM >

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:03:05 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Basically what you have been defending is the theory that your vote is too valuable to use...i mean sort of right you wouldn't want to waste it by using it

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:03:45 PM   
Smith117


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So this is improvement you have moved from a comedian to a songwriter claiming there is no one of enough stature to justify your voting is nothing more than misplaced ego.this isn't your virginity here .You don't have to wait for the right guy and yes we will respect you in the morning.


I don't have to wait for the "right guy" but I will wait for someone I want to vote for. The electoral process up until now has been roughly like a robber pointing a gun at your wife's head and your child's head and telling you to choose.

As I said, I chose not to vote for those I cannot support.

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:05:21 PM   
Smith117


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Basically what you have been defending is the theory that your vote is too valuable to use...i mean sort of right you wouldn't want to waste it by using it


We said "wasting" in reference to time, not the vote.

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:17:54 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I'm out this, might just be a case of addition by subtraction.Maybe a case where the law of unintended consequences is in our favor,but at this point i want nothing more to do with convincing some people to vote .Quite possible we are all better off..  when others stay home

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:21:43 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

As I said, I chose not to vote for those I cannot support.


Correction, you will only vote when your  preferred candidate already has a majority in his favor.

Kudos on rendering your vote irrelevant.


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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:24:54 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

And what has your voting choice gotten you?


A process where votes matter.   A process where candidates have to campaign, and actually reach out to voters.  The contest between Clinton and Obama is a potent reminder of how important votes are to a democracy.

I may not vote for the one who wins the Presidency.  I always vote for having an elected President.

I pity you that you fail to grasp that distinction.


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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:24:56 PM   
Smith117


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

As I said, I chose not to vote for those I cannot support.


Correction, you will only vote when your  preferred candidate already has a majority in his favor.

Kudos on rendering your vote irrelevant.



Wow,  you certainly take the illiteracy award today.

I said exactly what I meant. Obama need not have the majority already. I already support him regardless. However, if he doesn't get the nomination, I can't very well vote for him now can I?

Several other presidents had the majority and I didn't vote for them either. I didn't vote for them because I did not support them. I did not vote against them because I did not support those running against them either. I refuse to pick someone simple because they suck less. Period.

You like to vote for those who are not fit for the job because they 'suck less' than the other one....I do not.

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RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:26:09 PM   
Smith117


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

And what has your voting choice gotten you?


A process where votes matter.   A process where candidates have to campaign, and actually reach out to voters.  The contest between Clinton and Obama is a potent reminder of how important votes are to a democracy.

I may not vote for the one who wins the Presidency.  I always vote for having an elected President.

I pity you that you fail to grasp that distinction.



I've never failed to grasp that distinction. I simply refuse to use my vote until I see someone worthy of the job. I won't put someone in office just to keep someone else out.


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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Is it time for Sen.Clinton to concede - 3/22/2008 6:26:24 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Obama need not have the majority already. I already support him regardless.


You don't support him at all.

(And I'll give odds that Obama himself would agree with me)


< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 3/22/2008 6:27:31 PM >

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