Misuse of Terms - Abuse?

Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (Full Version)

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Malaki -> Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/1/2005 11:56:36 PM)
I’ve been lurking on Collarme and have replied to posts from time to time – now it’s time for a rant! I’ve read posts my slave brought to my attention and have also read through various other BDSM sites / posts. Through the multitude of sites and posts, I repeatedly seem to come across what I consider to be a SAD creature that graces our ranks with its stench. Using our terminology, it hides it’s true nature and preys on slaves / submissives. I only bring it up here to vent; no comments are necessary. It seems as though many persons that are actually guilty of Domestic Violence join our lifestyle in order to get a free pass to do as they wish under the self-proclaimed title of Master or Dom. These self-professed “Masters” seem to misunderstand the meaning and responsibility of a Master to his (or her) slave. These animals seem to have found a niche for themselves in the BDSM world specifically to make it easier for themselves to have and abuse a mate with little or no recourse. Those in the “vanilla” world may look at many of us and see us as odd at best and abusive at worst. Some in the lifestyle know the difference between an abusive relationship a/k/a domestic violence to that of discipline/ punishment between a Master / Dom and his slave/ sub. But what of those newer to the lifestyle that don’t comprehend the difference between the two and endure years of abuse in order to be true to their soul’s calling as a submissive or slave? There should be a special room reserved in hell for these bastards. To all those slaves out there that once sought the completion to their submissive side by finding and submitting and have only found abuse, whether physical, mental or spiritual – Get out – Run and don’t look back! You are not in a Master/slave relationship at all. Know the difference between domestic violence and true Mastery. If something feels completely wrong to your submissive side / instinct . . . IT IS! To all of the self-proclaimed Masters / Doms, whom CLEARLY are not either, that consider submissive woman easier prey than vanilla, do to their natural calling and need to please, seek help – professional help. You are just as sick and abusive, simply satisfying whatever twisted mental problem you possess instead of finding completion in the circle. You are just as unworthy of these women as you are in the vanilla world, if not more so. Thank you all for the opportunity to rant! Malaki

LordODiscipline -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 12:12:23 AM)
Good rant... But - 1. We (as a culture) are not special... you will always have people in every segment of society that hurt other people (and, not in a good way). 2. You do not define YOUR meaning when you use the word "abuse" or give us concrete examples of the things you are reading in profile that you have determined are 'abuse'.... relative to what the rest of the world considers it to be, I am an 'abuser'... of course the people I play with do not think so, as they love it. 3. Since you do not spell out what the 'responsibilities of a master' are... I can only assume you feel somehow that there is an edict that is involved in this determination that I am not aware of.. perhaps you would care to illucidate? ~J 3.

IronBear -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 12:34:58 AM)
I guess LoD, that untill some specific it posted we may use the generalities which most of the Lifestyle would agree to. It could be agreed for example that some one entering the lifestyle to find some legitimacy for "wife bashing" in all it's varing forms is not generally acceptable. Few Dominants would willingly knock a sub/slave about to the point where hospitalization is needed or suicide is considered or attempted. certainly these are the extremes but many areas of lesser spousal abuse end up at that point. When saying spoiusal abuse I do include those in relationships other than a legal marriage. Regarding the Master's responsibilities, perhaps, again untill something is posted, we may generally agree with those lists which are freely circulated in the lifestyle forums and sites often refered to as "The Duties/Responsibilities of Master" or "the Charastics of a Master". I would argue, I hope, that as Dominants, we hopefully have the health and well being of a sub/slave under our care as the formost of our responsibilities.

LordODiscipline -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 4:36:57 AM)
Iron Bear - See that is the issue... I have been accused of "abuse" by people who claim to be in the same "lifestyle" I am, simply because what I did "squicked them". And, we are "assuming" upon the author of this rant to infer that much upon his writing - therefore the request for information about what 'is' and 'is not' abuse in his eyes. Also, I did not 'sign up' for anything - so, the vapid renderings of those two authors/articles you mentioned are not ordained as inherent in any relational dynamic I am a part of.... there was never a proper vote on it where I was apprised of the resultants[;)] I find it most interesting (in a sub-culture that is considered an anathema to the 'norm') that people adopt such grand manifestos without any real or critical consideration of their content... Anyhow, that is 'my' rant... for the morning... Now I will see if the author shall reply. ~J

Gem -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 4:56:38 AM)
Brightest Blessings Many have said my relationship is abusive, why? mainly because that is not how they conducted their relationship, and so because they were seeing my relationship thru their eyes instead of mine they offered me help to escape. Reading some e-mail from a group such as CM it is easy to place the slant of abuse on posts because there content might not be what you would do in your realtionship. Are there abusers here in our little niche of the world sure, they are in all walks of life, and ome in all shapes, sizes and labels. We also have to understand that there are just as many folks on the bottom end of things that cry foul when things don't go their way or they have morning regrets. You posted without being specfic, what do you consider abusive, is it keeping the slave with no money, is it slapping her/his face out of the blue, is it using them as a whipping post, is it making them do something they do not want to do, is it humilating them in public, is it leaving deep brusies and bloodletting cuts, making them clean a toliet with a toothbrush, is it locking them in a cage all day, hand feeding them forbiding them to speak, is it ignoring their wants and letting them have their needs, or is it that they have a stable of slaves and just have not told anybody including the slave they are with. Many of the things I listed sound horrible and abusive, however to many me included they sound like an absolutely wonderful way to live life and have sex( I included many s/m things because that is where we find most abuse issues arise). Blessed Be Gem

WickedKev -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 5:17:21 AM)
Abuse is such a genral term, and like all terms means differant things to differant people. For me anyone that strikes out in anger is not a Dominant/Master or anthing resembling it. If you can't control yourself how can you control someone else? A qliche'? Maybe but a very valid one.

LordODiscipline -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 5:30:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WickedKev Abuse is such a genral term, and like all terms means differant things to differant people. For me anyone that strikes out in anger is not a Dominant/Master or anthing resembling it. If you can't control yourself how can you control someone else? A qliche'? Maybe but a very valid one. I have a friend whose submissive left him because "he could not control himself". His mother passed away and he was distraught for a few weeks and would break down crying on occasion (rather understandable) - and, this girl stated that she could not be with a dominant who could not control his emotions.... Since then, I have found this platitude rather hollow... We are all human. We all have 'moments' when we lose our "control"... and, lash out. Adopting the term "master" or 'dominant' into one's life does not change that. Degree and constancy are more telling than the happening. ~J

Rover -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 5:54:19 AM)
I'd like to note the following: 1. There is an enormous disconnect between the volume of abuse claimed online, and that found real time. And of the folks I know real time who have been abused, the overwhelming majority of the abuse in their life was imparted by vanillas, not lifestylers. 2. People come to the lifestyle for a variety of reasons, not all of which are healthy. Surely some have come to legitimize their abusive behavior. Others have come to legitmize their victimization. But in my experience, the vast majority arriving with tales of woe (particularly on the internet) are simply emotional vampires seeking attention, sympathy, etc. (that should not in any way be construed as to malign the very real victims of abuse). 3. If abuse were taking place in the numbers claimed online, it would be a national news story. Physicians are required to report suspected abuse, as are police officers and other state officials. Friends and neighbors do so anonymously. People investigate those reports, and in most states the victim does not need to press charges for the abuser to be arrested because of existing domestic violence laws. Newspapers, television shows, magazines, heck even the Moral Majority and Nathional Organization for Women would have enormous interest in publicizing the great number of abuses found in this awful, horrible, detestable sub-culture that needs to be stopped (us). 4. Anyone that's concerned about abusers in the lifestyle (or "professional victims" who could make a Top/Dominant's life miserable) should find extra reason to become involved in your local lifestyle community where people's reputations are known, where there are public facilities to play (ie: there are witnesses), etc. Bottom line, this is the internet and you can't believe everything you read. John P.S. - I utterly reject any concept that my "duties as a Dominant" are dependent upon any person other than myself, my girl, and what we agree that my duties (and hers) shall be. Beyond those that we all "answer to" by necessity (ie: the law for example). If I say anything more, I'll never get off double-secret probation.

IronBear -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 6:12:05 AM)
Ok guys, let’s have your views on this one then…. One of the things I learned as a parent besides bottle feeds and changing nappies, was what children need and want Consistency and reasonable fairness when dealing with them (E.g. not playing favourites or taking out your bad mood on them). Training animals required the same thing. Those of you who have commanded troops know this is a requirement as well. A master who can not be consistent and use reasonable fairness (again I use the example as stated above), and who can’t control his temper or drinking is in my perspective, a master who is suspect and probably has no real self-control or in the terms I occasionally use, can’t control his dick. Ergo if you can't control you dick, what can you control? Still lets see what the OP has to say as far as specifics go. Abuse like Stress is a much used word especially in my world and requires so many differing definitions it makes the head spin.

Rover -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 6:18:43 AM)
What place does fairness have in a power exchange relationship? It is inherently UNfair. It's not fair that she can't make an equal number of decisions. It's not fair that she can't decide what is and isn't acceptable behavior. It's not fair that she can't discipline me. It's not fair that I don't answer to her. Need I go on? John

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 7:32:36 AM)
Overuse of Abuse

thetammyjo -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 8:31:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover What place does fairness have in a power exchange relationship? It is inherently UNfair. It's not fair that she can't make an equal number of decisions. It's not fair that she can't decide what is and isn't acceptable behavior. It's not fair that she can't discipline me. It's not fair that I don't answer to her. Need I go on? John Actually I would argue that if the relationship was negotiated and the extend of the power exchanged was freely consented to after a good deal of thought and information, then it is quite fair. Fairness is perhaps best defined by those in X situation. If both parties feel it is fair, who has the right to say it is not fair?

perfection20005 -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 8:56:14 AM)
I agree with you. I have known a couple of women, just in my short time in the lifestyle, that have been in a relationship that is abusive, not Master/slave. They were new and told that the beatings and punishments(including keeping them from any family and friends) were just part of the lifestyle. They were completely brainwashed and I still don't know if they will ever get over it. It is sad to know that there are people out there who do this, but I'm sure it happens all the time. Abusers will always find a way to make it sound like nothing is wrong with the abuse they hand out. The sad fact is, most women in a bad relationship don't know its wrong, so its hard for them to run or walk away. Some who do, end up inside a coffin before its all said and done.

LordODiscipline -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 9:29:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Actually I would argue that if the relationship was negotiated and the extend of the power exchanged was freely consented to after a good deal of thought and information, then it is quite fair. Fairness is perhaps best defined by those in X situation. If both parties feel it is fair, who has the right to say it is not fair? YES! I agree 100%... Life in general is not "fair" - but, we make it as equitable as possible - and, this is one way to try to strive for that. ~J

IronBear -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 9:34:00 AM)
Here John I'm going to completely disagree.. So lets take it point by point. quote: What place does fairness have in a power exchange relationship? It is inherently UNfair. No so. By virtue of entering into Power Exchange, there is an agreement about how things shall be. It is fair to keep to that agreement. quote: It's not fair that she can't make an equal number of decisions. It's not fair that she can't decide what is and isn't acceptable behavior. It's not fair that she can't discipline me. It's not fair that I don't answer to her. Why is this so unfair, prey tell? After all all this was agree to by both parties at the begining. I made the general comment that consistancy and fairness is what may be expected and i gave several non lifestyle examples of areas which thety are essential. I would however consider it unfair and inconsistand if a Master/Dom were to change the rules on a mere whim. Consistancy is something which is objective and can be measured by all in contact. Fairness is a concept which is subjective at the best unless it is applies ti a specific matter, not subject but matter or situation if you prefer. I may think it unfair that you wont share your trik with me when you know I have a raging hard on and there is no female within cooee. That is a subjective oersonal opinion not a fact of unfairness, unless you had agreed to share her and then locked her away for your own private useage. Mind you I wouldn't be calling you unfair buit you might hear a running comentary regarding your antecedents and the nast acts I whoud like to perform on various sensitive parts of your anatomy...... No perhaps not I'd probable laugh my self silly and call in a couple of hookers and send you the bill..... RWL [sm=lol.gif]

Malaki -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 9:57:14 AM)
My original post should have been self-explanatory. I said exactly what I meant. If you need to beat a someone out of anger or to feel better about yourself with little or no control then you are an abusive mate. My relationship with my slave would be seen as very hard core. We do not scene, it is a 24/ 7/ 365 relationship with few “hard limits”. We include “edge play” of all sorts and rape on a regular basis. However, I have never struck her out of anger. Two questions pop to mind that every Master should answer (or a slave should answer in regards to their Master). 1) Have you ever acted – beaten someone - out of anger or rage? (This in no way refers to BDSM). 2) Do you hide and/or demand your slave hide your behavior from even those within the BDSM world because you are concerned it would be seen as abusive? If the answer to either one is yes then perhaps you need to seek professional help. You are abusive – and not in a good way. Fairness??? Fairness has no place in this discussion. We are referring to domestic violence. There is nothing fair about domestic violence. As for the “Responsibilities of a Master”; I assumed everyone would know what this inferred. – YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELL BEING OF YOUR SLAVE! -. Safe, Sane and Consensual are terms repeatedly used within our lifestyle. IronBear – once again, my hat’s is off to you for being the sane, rational voice of experience and reason. MM

MistressMelissa -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 10:01:08 AM)
Since I live my life and run my house differently than the normal BDSM world I often get accused of many things. I require service from my slaves, I may or may not require sex or playtime from them. Does that make me abusive? My attitude is probably more in line with the Gorean's, but then there is that whole issue of "every female longs to be a slave" and that "Free Woman is only allowed her position by the grace of Free Men". I have read the first 16 books of Gor and I do own a complete set so I'm familiar with the Gorean ways. If I was male, I'd be Gorean. As for disciplining of property it depends on who you are attracting. The slaves I desire need to know that they will be kept under discipline and will from time to time test to ensure that there are enforced boundaries. I may use corporal punishment or I might deny perks. My house boy didn't get the bathroom swept right last night so he did not get a beer before bed. Is that unfair or abusive? Just because you who is on the outside looking in, would not like to live as my property does, in no way means that my boy or girl is unhappy or abused. If by Gorean custom I carry my new girl over the thresh hold into my house, so she knows she is my property. Then I beat the girl (not play with, but beat) so she will understand she will be kept under strict discipline in my house. Then I "slave rape" her so she knows she will be well used. Is that abusive or what that girl expects upon entering a Gorean home? The customs of other countries seem strange to us, that does not automatically make them abusive. I often find claims of abuse from the play oriented crowd that think Dom's and sub's are of equal station. While they are reading their little fantasy books about enslavement and dream of being property to a strong dominant, they are ignorant to what they see before them. Just because what they see does not fit within their socialistic agenda, does not make something abusive. Some thoughts to ponder: If you say you wish to be treated as property, why get mad at me if I treat you like property? Slavery is not fair. There is a difference between being of use and being used. Sometimes the only difference between two actions is the individuals motivation. There is a difference between wants and needs. If I break my "toys(slaves)" they are of no use to me and that's just pain stupid. Dominance can be both exhilarating and humbling at the same time. Last but not least is my favorite. "If you build it they will come" from Field of Dreams. If I can create the atmosphere required for the type of slave I require, I can attract that type of slave. If I handle myself in the manner expected of me and conduct myself accordingly, I will attract the people I desire to myself. If I spend the time and monies required to physically set up my house to run as I wish it to run, that too will show perspective slaves that I'm serious about what I do. Since I run my house similar to a Manor House, I will spend the money to finish off a portion of my cellar for use as slave quarters complete with a utilitarian bathroom. This will cost me several thousand dollars but how can I attract service slaves if I don't have quarters for them? The family and guest rooms are on the second floor of the house. Slaves use of bathrooms will be restricted to the slaves bathroom. It's that whole upstairs/downstairs mentality. To some this may sound unfair or abusive but these slaves come to my house of their own free will and at their own expense. Provided I do my part correctly they will find the happiness they seek and I will enjoy years of their service. There is great responsibility and expense in living as I do and I don't take it lightly. For great venture there is great reward. I apologize, I seem to have slide into a rant. I guess I lost my self control and I should not be allowed to own property. Be Well, Melissa Mistress of Ds Haven www.dshaven.com

Rover -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 10:01:22 AM)
Pehaps it is a matter of semantics, but I would consider that making it "responsible" not "fair" relationship (ie: responsibility for living up to our consensually negotiated obligations). John

Rover -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 10:05:53 AM)
IronBear, it is "honorable" to keep an agreement... not "fair". Even agreements can be inherently "unfair" (ie: inequitable). Someone recently paid over $ 1,500.00 on ebay for a potato chip that looked like Jay Leno. John P.S. - Please, save me the explanation that the buyer thought it was a "fair" price (probably the same people who have complained about "price gouging" after the recent hurricanes here in the States). It just goes to show that a fool and their money are soon parted. There's nothing "fair" in taking advantage of people either.

Rover -> RE: Misuse of Terms - Abuse? (10/2/2005 10:09:46 AM)
quote: Sometimes the only difference between two actions is the individuals motivation. [/quote] Amen!!! John

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