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RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 4:42:22 PM

FLButtSlut

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

The one thing that bothers me a little bit about all the answers is that everyone seems so confident in their opinion. This is not a simple issue. It wasn't HIS decision not to use contraception; it was YOUR decision. If you're the domme, you're supposed to be the one in charge, and you have to take responsibility for whatever happens.

Of course, I also understand that he doesn't have the right to tell you how to handle this. That's why this is such a difficult problem.

I hope you choose the option that suits your principles and preferences. Best of luck.

It bothers you that everyone is so confident telling her that it is HER decision how to handle this? Quite odd, considering you just told her the same thing.

Again, this isn't a D/s issue. It is a LIFE issue, and a woman's life issue at that. The only time she would not have the freedom to decide for herself was if she allowed someone else to make that decision for her, which she isn't. Not because she is a Domme but because she is a woman, the ultimate choice is hers.

Or are you perhaps implying that if YOU chose not to use contraception with your sub, and intentionally got her pregnant when she didn't want to be that you had the right to tell her she must have the baby? Because that would be very funny indeed.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 21

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 4:48:00 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Back off, and reread what I said if you have to. That's exactly NOT what I said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut

Or are you perhaps implying that if YOU chose not to use contraception with your sub, and intentionally got her pregnant when she didn't want to be that you had the right to tell her she must have the baby? Because that would be very funny indeed.

(in reply to FLButtSlut)

Post #: 22

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 5:11:00 PM

FLButtSlut

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Back off, and reread what I said if you have to. That's exactly NOT what I said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut

Or are you perhaps implying that if YOU chose not to use contraception with your sub, and intentionally got her pregnant when she didn't want to be that you had the right to tell her she must have the baby? Because that would be very funny indeed.

Back off? I think not. TWO people decide not to use contraception. Her being Domme does not give her more responsibility in the decision. Your inability to differentiate REAL life from lifestyle is funny to say the least. The "If you're the domme, you're supposed to be the one in charge, and you have to take responsibility for whatever happens." statement of yours shows that. It also definately implicates that since YOU say you are a "dominant male" that if you made the choice to not use contraceptives, YOU would be in control and have to take responsibility for the result. When you grow a uterus this will be true, until then, like all men, you are on the outside looking in, with only the ability to guess how a woman feels in this situation.

The issue is whether or not this "problem" is different because of the D/s dynamic and the heightened trust that is supposed to exist, not whether or not he is able to dictate or who is responsible. Just because two people are in a D/s dynamic, doesn't mean that everything that happens in "real" life is different because of it. Pregnancy is real life, and her sub's desire for her to terminate has nothing to do with his "subness", but to do with where he feels personally at the moment, just as it is MsChiefs. More issues than people seem to be able to admit are the same in bdsm and vanilla.

So perhaps YOU should do the backing off until you have some personal experiences with being pregant to share.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 23

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 5:13:50 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsChief
this situation hurts even more in a D/s relationship because there is more of a bond, trust etc.

No, it's not. I know you're in a tough situation here, and while FOR YOU it's more difficult than a vanilla relationship would be, you can't say that your situation is tougher than ANY vanilla situation out there.

quote:

Has anyone else been in this situation and am I deluding myself that D/s should be any different as we are all just people at the end of the day.

You're not deluding yourself by thinking ds is DIFFERENT, but it's wrong to say that "ds" is "more/better" in general.

In your case Ds is more/better. Not universally.

And no I don't think the decision should be reached differently because it's Ds.

quote:

It is personal choice I know and I am sure a female submissive would have issues with a male Dom demanding a termination if it was against her moral values. I guess I am just in turmoil right now.

Actually many female slaves accept that the dominant has authority over all breeding choices. While I sympathize with a males lack of rights when it comes to pregnancy, it's difficult to give their perspective a lot of weight when it comes to this sort of choice.

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 24

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 7:43:41 PM

LadyShoshin

Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsChief

I can't be the only one this has happened to. Yes, we were stupid, but it was by mutual consent that 'risks' were taken. The relationship is less that 6 months old but everything was wonderful.

I know I have to live with the consequences and a tremination is not an option for me . My sub has made it clear that this is what he would expect.

I guess what I am saying is.....this situation hurts even more in a D/s relationship because there is more of a bond, trust etc. I feel even more let down than I ever would in vanilla (yes this did happen to me some 20 years ago!) Has anyone else been in this situation and am I deluding myself that D/s should be any different as we are all just people at the end of the day.
It is personal choice I know and I am sure a female submissive would have issues with a male Dom demanding a termination if it was against her moral values. I guess I am just in turmoil right now.

You stated that it was by mutual consent that risks were taken, so the risks were discussed, that is when he had his chance to say "Getting you pregnant is a red for me"

If he had thought with the big head instead of the little head, he should have discussed his expectations if the activity resulted in pregnancy before it became a fait accompli.

It takes two to make a baby, he wanted the play but no pay. Even at the point of ejaculation he could have called red.

The baby didn't get to be in on the consensuality discussion, do what you feel is right and hold him accountable as having agreed to the risks involved. He may not want to be a daddy, but he has an obligation to step up, be a man and be a father.

Lady Shoshin

_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 25

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 8:11:19 PM

sultryvoice

Posts: 368
Joined: 3/31/2004
Status: offline

I do understand this situation. I was there years ago. It doesn't matter if it's D/s or vanilla, it's still the same thing. It takes 2 people to make a pregnancy. You have to think like a woman not the Domme. Although you had the control, it comes down to a mutual decison. After all is discussed, then the appropriate measures need to be taken..either to end it or get to the doctor to make sure the pregnancy goes well. If you decide to continue, there are also options.

I do wish you the best of luck.

Respectfully,
sultry

_____________________________

Blessed are the cracked,
For it is they who let in the light.

www.themarkbycpi.com

(in reply to LadyShoshin)

Post #: 26

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 8:18:23 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Please, if you're going to try to attack me, start by reading for comprehension. I didn't say anything like what you're trying to pin on me, and I don't understand why you're trying to paint me as a boogieman. I didn't get you or the OP pregnant. Maybe you've got some unfinished business with someone ELSE.

Oh, and don't use words like "implicate" if you don't know what they mean.

Edited to add: I'm not going to respond to any more of your nonsense, either, because this is the OP's thread and her concern right now is a lot more important than yours. If you want to continue this pointless discussion with me, take it to a different thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut

Back off? I think not. TWO people decide not to use contraception. Her being Domme does not give her more responsibility in the decision. Your inability to differentiate REAL life from lifestyle is funny to say the least. The "If you're the domme, you're supposed to be the one in charge, and you have to take responsibility for whatever happens." statement of yours shows that. It also definately implicates that since YOU say you are a "dominant male" that if you made the choice to not use contraceptives, YOU would be in control and have to take responsibility for the result.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 10/9/2005 8:27:54 PM >

(in reply to FLButtSlut)

Post #: 27

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 8:37:31 PM

Janon

Posts: 17
Joined: 9/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin

You stated that it was by mutual consent that risks were taken, so the risks were discussed, that is when he had his chance to say "Getting you pregnant is a red for me"

If he had thought with the big head instead of the little head, he should have discussed his expectations if the activity resulted in pregnancy before it became a fait accompli.

It takes two to make a baby, he wanted the play but no pay. Even at the point of ejaculation he could have called red.

Lady Shoshin

Well, that was my .02 on the matter right there, Lady Shoshin.

D/s is a consentual relationship. We all say it frequently--subs consent, and have the power to revoke that consent with a safeword. He chose not to revoke, the decision was as much his as hers. He knew the potential consequences.

My uterus, my choice, in my opinion. When a man consents to unprotected sex with a woman, he consents to all the risks that follow, including parenthood.

Janon

(in reply to LadyShoshin)

Post #: 28

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 9:02:18 PM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

Termination and adoption are hardly "easy options" for the woman, and I would hope that a caring partner would realize this.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 29

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 9:29:48 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsChief

I know I have to live with the consequences and a tremination is not an option for me . My sub has made it clear that this is what he would expect.
{clipped}
I guess what I am saying is.....this situation hurts even more in a D/s relationship because there is more of a bond, trust etc. I feel even more let down than I ever would in vanilla (yes this did happen to me some 20 years ago!)
{clipped}

Ok. First things first. Are you prepared to raise this child yourself? If you are not prepared to raise the child, are you prepared to consider adoption?

If adoption is an option, it may be one that is compatible with both your standard of not terminating the pregnancy, and your submissive male's preference to not have a baby in the relationship mix.

If adoption is -not- an option, then it seems to me that you have made your decision, and the question is whether or not you will retain this submissive male. Frankly, you are the dominant member in the situation, and as such, it is up to you to set the groundwork. While I know that it is difficult to think that this relationship that you have invested time in may not survive this upheaval, that is pretty much what anyone goes through. For us, in a similar situation where the submissive partner would not have to carry the child, the submissive partner would have an opportunity to present an opinion -- which you clearly gave your manservant...however, the decision would rest with the owner and/or the individual who was actually carrying the baby.

Dominance means taking responsibility. If you mutually decided not to use a condom (and considering that there does -not- have to be ejaculation to release sperm into the vaginal vault -- in fact, the greatest concentration of sperm per milileter of volume is actually in the pre-ejaculate!!!), you made a command decision when you allowed your manservant intercourse without a condom. He -also- made a decision to yield to that command decision, and will have to live with the consequences of not using any safeword or failsafe that you had set up between you to indicate that he was not willing to take on one of the risks of the behavior (namely, the risk of having to provide paternal support to any child that might be created through the act). However, his acceptance does not abrogate you of -your- responsibility to remain the dominant and controlling force in this decision process.

If you want this baby, and your manservant refuses to continue in his service to you because of it, then you may have to release him from the D/s aspect of the situation, though releasing him from the collar will -not- release him from the responsibility to the child that he has created. However, if you don't let yourself be shattered by the responsibilities of this action, and you are firm in your leadership, you may be able to protect both your unborn child -and- your relationship with this man. In either case, both of you have responsibilities to yourselves, your ethics, and your progeny, and someone is going to have to step up to the plate, delineate those responsibilities and be the guide for how they are to be met, and ideally, it will be you, as the dominant member of your pair.

Lady Zephyr

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 10/9/2005 9:31:56 PM >

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 30

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 9:40:11 PM

Wolfie648

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

This is of course just my opinion and I neither condoning, recommending or discouraging anyone's own beliefs in abortion.

I would say for a D/s relationship that the dominant, ultimately after discussion, could not make the decision for the submissive (unless of course this had been worked out beforehand and all parties agreed) in which case the pre-agreement should stand.

In a Owner/slave relationship I would say absolutely the Owner could decide which way. The law would disagree with me in this view.

D (owner of j)

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 31

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 10:11:59 PM

krikket

Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline

HI..and Hugs... What you're going through is a tough situation, and one that i hope won't be decided in haste, anger or panic. It has to be your decision, imho, because ultimately you're the one who will carry that baby inside you for 9 months, who will birth the baby and like "most" women, handle the majority of the care of the little tyke -- and yes, i know there are exceptions, which i won't write in absolutes in this case. If it's possible to take what your partner says into consideration, it would be best, but that doesn't mean he has the final say. i believe, like many others, that it really is your call.

If you do decide to birth and keep the babe, i hope You're able to find a way to make sure that he is also responsible for child support. Speaking as the grown child who's own mother was awarded child support that was never paid, and as the mother who was awarded child support for our own child that was never paid, i think it's very important for the child to know that, while the best situation is 2 parents, the presence of even one loving parent, and that real loser (in several ways) is the sperm doner... and the joy that mother and child receive from another is worth all the hard work, scared feelings, and pixie dust in the world.

good luck..and please write me if you'd like.

jimini

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin

When your heart speaks take good notes.

(in reply to Wolfie648)

Post #: 32

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/9/2005 10:35:49 PM

Misstoyou

Posts: 1149
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsChief

He has stated quite clearly this is his prefered. I have said I will not terminate a life, as it is not a form of contraception. He has said that I am denying him a 'voice' in this matter. I did say he made a choice some weeks ago whether to ejaculate or not but he says I controlled that as a Domme!!! Would make me laugh if it wasnt so sad.

Dear MsChief,

There are some situations where biology is destiny, and this is one. Once the sperm has penetrated the egg, he has no choice other than yours. He's an adult, and knows how babies are made...and the responsibilites that go along with that process.

But honestly, my sub would be in exactly the same position. He trusts, and has never asked, that I have protected myself, making the assumption, I suppose, that otherwise I would be requiring him to use condoms. A fair assumption in my case.

All the best in whatever decision you make, and regardless of the decision, I hope you get the support from him you need.

_____________________________

~ Miss Marie

a.k.a. "mean Lady"

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 33

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 1:36:44 AM

1RottenJohnny

Posts: 113
Joined: 11/12/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin

You stated that it was by mutual consent that risks were taken, so the risks were discussed, that is when he had his chance to say "Getting you pregnant is a red for me"

If D/s has ANY role in this situation I would think it would be here. Beyond that, I don't think it has anything to do with it.

As far as I'm concerned, this is about YOUR choice. If it is against your better moral judgement to terminate, then don't. Just be prepared to carry the burden of whatever you choose.

For whatever it may be worth, I offer you my best wishes.

As a side note:
If you find yourself in a courtroom debating support issues, whether he consented to the sex or not I doubt will matter to the judge. The blood test reveals all. Any judgements about support start with that. He wouldn't be the only one who's had to pay for circumstances he views as "out of his control". I did it for 18 years and his position (as best as I can judge from what you've written) can't compare with mine.

_____________________________

Compassion is a wonderful thing...taken in moderation!

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 34

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 1:39:15 AM

MsChief

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline

Dear CaptCraig

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptCraig

You are not going to like this and the truth hurts. You fucked up, big time!

You're telling me....this made me LOL! At least I can try and make something good out of this....life goes on eh!

Ty for your words of wisdom
xxx

(in reply to CaptCraig)

Post #: 35

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 1:58:18 AM

MsChief

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to post. The hugs and wise words were and are very much appreciated.

I do not intend to terminate this pregnancy. I had previously made my views clear on this matter to him (apparently I should have made them clearer!).
We both chose not to use a condom and we both knew the risks.

What I don't understand is that he thought we were perfect, he wanted me and I believed by this that we had a future together. How many subs would love to have 'trapped' their Mistresses in this way! (that is said tongue in cheek by the way!). He has even said that it is only because now is not the right time, to the point of saying, terminate this one and we can have one next year. I think this is the ultimate insult. A child is not a commodity. He is 33 and I am 40, so we are hardly teenagers.

His main concern is what people (friends and family) will say/think.

There are too many factors to put both sides of the arguement here so this may be a little bias, (he is of course free to put his views here too as a member of the CM community) and as I am sure I can now say....old enough to know better. I am hurting for the loss of a relationship as well as this unplanned event. One is obviously worth more than the other.......I have made my choice. Baby due end of May 2006!!!!

(in reply to FLButtSlut)

Post #: 36

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 2:01:35 AM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

MsChief,

Having read what i believe are most of the responses here, i have one question.

Did Your submissive believe that You were protected from this happening by the birth control pill or some other method (and i do not mean condoms as condoms are NEVER full proof)? In my humble opinion, if the answer to that is yes, and You make the decision to have the baby and keep the baby; is it right that a court of law force him to support a child he doesn't want, simply because You made the choice to have and care for the child? (i KNOW i'm going to get flamed for this).

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 37

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 2:19:58 AM

MsChief

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

MsChief,

Having read what i believe are most of the responses here, i have one question.

Did Your submissive believe that You were protected from this happening by the birth control pill or some other method (and i do not mean condoms as condoms are NEVER full proof)?

Dear angelic

He did not want to use condoms and I was clear that I was not using any form of birth control. I even explained before the sexual activity took place that it was not quite the best time of the month to be reckless....maybe I should have spelt it out more! I should also say that the time of conception took place somewhere over a period of 3 days where we had unprotected sex 3 times at least. (we lapsed into vanilla <blushes>). I can hear everyone shouting....and u want sympathy for getting pregnant! No, I don't .....there is always a risk of pregnancy etc. In hindsight we were both stupid, we both knew the risks but ignored them more than once. I am the one who gets pregnant so maybe I should have been more careful.....we can all look back and become wiser after the event. My biggest 'crime' was stupidly thinking he would be there for me if I did get pregnant!

Hope this clarifies things.

PS. He obviously wasn't tied up to the bed! PITY! LOL

(in reply to angelic)

Post #: 38

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 2:29:31 AM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

MsChief,

It is certainly not an easy decision. Blame at this point is futile, as Yyou Bboth knew what the risks were. Listen to Your heart.

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 39

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 6:40:46 AM

MsIncognito

Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut

Again, this isn't a D/s issue. It is a LIFE issue, and a woman's life issue at that.

While I fully support the right of women to decide what happens with/in their bodies I think this is also a man's life issue. His life is affected just as much as hers regardless of what decision she makes. Two people decide to have unprotected sex but when that goes wrong one person gets to decide the course of the future life of three people. All I can do is wish the OP clarity in making the best decision possible for all three people involved.

(in reply to FLButtSlut)

Post #: 40

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