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RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 6:55:41 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I do not intend to terminate this pregnancy. I had previously made my views clear on this matter to him (apparently I should have made them clearer!).
We both chose not to use a condom and we both knew the risks.

MsChief,
I would first like to say that I feel badly for you and the position you are in. I am 43 and I know that a pregnancy at this stage of my life would be a true challenge.

I am glad that you have made a decision to have your baby. I would like to say that I would have been in full support of you though had you chosen termination instead. This is a decision that can only be made by you.

I got pregnant for my first child at the age of 15. Believe me when I say that it was also a very poor time in my life to be considering raising a child. I don't think there was a single person in my life that was in support of me having that baby. Every where I turned there was pressure from every angle to terminate. I did not terminate and one month after my 16th birthday my son was born. I just want to say to you that I have not had one single moment in my life that I have ever regretted the decision to have him. Today as adults, we are very close and I can not even imagine what life would be like without him in it.

I am surprised that there have been so many opinions on this subject relating it to D/s or M/s. This has nothing to do with who is the Dominant party....this is about 2 ADULTS who made a conscious decision to engage in behavior knowing full well the risks involved.

In my opinion.....NO ONE has the right to force you into a decision that you are against. I can not imagine being of the mindset where I would terminate the life of my unborn child or carry a pregnancy to term that I was unprepared to deal with on someone else's say so. That decision is a personal one and it is my belief that the only one who can make that is the woman carrying that child. Not a friend, not a relative, not the father....and no....not even if he is the Master.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 41

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 10:45:31 AM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

In my opinion.....NO ONE has the right to force you into a decision that you are against. I can not imagine being of the mindset where I would terminate the life of my unborn child or carry a pregnancy to term that I was unprepared to deal with on someone else's say so. That decision is a personal one and it is my belief that the only one who can make that is the woman carrying that child. Not a friend, not a relative, not the father....and no....not even if he is the Master.

I'm glad that this works well for you, and I hope that you will have a measure of understanding for the individuals who have chosen a different path and have yielded up these decisions. Each of us must make choices. Often they are difficult, and always we must live with the consequences. However, just because a certain choice works for my neighbor does -not- mean that it works for me as well.

In addition, this -is- a D/s issue, because the individuals involved were in a D/s relationship. In the same way, it would be a religious issue if they had religious issues to deal with, an ethical issue where individual ethical beliefs are held, and, above all, a personal issue that they will need to work out -somehow- with one another as people. Every dynamic that we participate in has an impact on the processes by which we live, so it is not possible to discount the D/s in this. It is a part of who they are, and a part of the way in which they interact and make decisions -- so it is not inappropriate that it be considered when going over a decision of this magnitude. Personally, I could not discount our household dynamic any more than I could discount a traditional wedding ring on my finger and the commitments that come along with it.

Lady Zephyr

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 42

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 10:56:49 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Regardless of lifestyle issues, at the end of the day it is your situation and your body and your moral issues. He can't walk away as if he bears no responsibility, unless you allow him that comfort. You need to give yourself some quiet time and think about it.

Good luck.

I'll second this.

I don't honestly think this is a Ds issue and if it were, since MsChief is the dominant, it could easily be argued that her will should rule and the sub can either accept that or walk away from your relationship.

There are legal obligations however that in the United States (I'm assuming you are writing from there) that both biological parents have if you want to pursue those.

*HUG*

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 43

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 11:09:04 AM

MrThorns

Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

I have to agree with those who have said that this is not a D/s issue. The only stipulation is that as a dominant, you had the responsibility to control what was happening at the time. This does not mean, however that you are 100% responsible for your current ordeal. It does take 2 to tango, and just because he is a submissive, does not mean that he has no responsibility in what has happened. We are all (or at least should be) responsible adults who are able to weigh the risks of our actions and accept the consequences of those actions, wether they be favorable or not.

He said that you are not giving him a "voice". Did you not listen to what he asked? Apparantly, you did listen. He just doesn't like the decision you have made, as it goes against his wishes.

This is your choice to make, not his. He may provide you with his opinions, but still...it's your choice. You also need to weigh your priorities. What is more important to you? This submissive? The relationship with him? The child? Find out what is most important to you, then take steps to do the right thing for your life.

I hope this answered your question.

Good luck,

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 44

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 11:12:05 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

Dominance means taking responsibility. If you mutually decided not to use a condom (and considering that there does -not- have to be ejaculation to release sperm into the vaginal vault -- in fact, the greatest concentration of sperm per milileter of volume is actually in the pre-ejaculate!!!), you made a command decision when you allowed your manservant intercourse without a condom. He -also- made a decision to yield to that

Lady Zephyr

I just wanted to point out an extension of Lady Zephyr's post.

Condoms are not 100%, any form of the pill is not 100%, even some forms of surgical sterilization are not 100% (ask one of my sisters).

The only 100% is not to have vaginal-penile intercourse at all.

This is the decision my slave and I have made -- he does not want children, he can do a lot of me with his mouth and hands, and toys, intercourse is not necessary and in fact holds too much risk giving his hard limit of having children.

Maybe it seems unsexy or unkinky to discuss reproduction and everyone's desires and goals but wouldn't it save a lot of heartache?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 45

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 11:14:04 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie648

In a Owner/slave relationship I would say absolutely the Owner could decide which way. The law would disagree with me in this view.

D (owner of j)

Would you say that this is something that should be covered long before a person gets into an owner-slave arrangement?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Wolfie648)

Post #: 46

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 1:15:16 PM

sting516

Posts: 505
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: long island, ny
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie648

This is of course just my opinion and I neither condoning, recommending or discouraging anyone's own beliefs in abortion.

I would say for a D/s relationship that the dominant, ultimately after discussion, could not make the decision for the submissive (unless of course this had been worked out beforehand and all parties agreed) in which case the pre-agreement should stand.

In a Owner/slave relationship I would say absolutely the Owner could decide which way. The law would disagree with me in this view.

D (owner of j)

i would agree with this is if the submissive is the woman...that's not the case here...any time a man has unprotected sex, unless he's dumb as a stump, he knows that pregnancy is a possiblility...unless, as you say, it's a master/slave situation where this has specifically been addressed, the decision on procreation relies solely with the woman...at least until the next Supreme Court Justice is sworn in.

sting

(in reply to Wolfie648)

Post #: 47

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 2:16:55 PM

luvdragonx

Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

Dominance means taking responsibility. If you mutually decided not to use a condom (and considering that there does -not- have to be ejaculation to release sperm into the vaginal vault -- in fact, the greatest concentration of sperm per milileter of volume is actually in the pre-ejaculate!!!), you made a command decision when you allowed your manservant intercourse without a condom. He -also- made a decision to yield to that

Lady Zephyr

I just wanted to point out an extension of Lady Zephyr's post.

Condoms are not 100%, any form of the pill is not 100%, even some forms of surgical sterilization are not 100% (ask one of my sisters).

The only 100% is not to have vaginal-penile intercourse at all.

This is the decision my slave and I have made -- he does not want children, he can do a lot of me with his mouth and hands, and toys, intercourse is not necessary and in fact holds too much risk giving his hard limit of having children.

Maybe it seems unsexy or unkinky to discuss reproduction and everyone's desires and goals but wouldn't it save a lot of heartache?

You got it, right there.

To my mind, that ends all question of whether the man in question should be responsible for his role in pregnancy.

MsChief, I also extend good wishes and hope for a safe, healthy, HAPPY pregnancy. I certainly can't say what someone should or shouldn't do, it just seems so unfair that your sub would accede decision power to you up until now - when there is no turning back. From what you've described, he's concerned about what? Appearances? His career? You?

I know this sucks, but you're not alone. Many of us have lost a partner over pregnancy. The best thing is the end result - it is SO worth it.

_____________________________

Never Without Love

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 48

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 3:23:35 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

2 cents

Screw him, screw all the advice. You dont need him, and you dont NEED his wants.

Terminate the D/s between you all, terminate the relationship between you all.

Give him 3 options

1. You can be in the childs life is you choose
2. You can help me finacially support the child
3. You can get out of my life.

Bottom line, your participation in our childs life is up to you.

Forcing a man to be responsible is a disaster waiting to happen. No good usually comes from it.

Congratulations on being pregnant, try and enjoy it! You have a brand new life growing in you, make the best of it. Enjoy it, focus on it. Its a beautiful journey.

You DONT need him and DONT need him in your kids life. Yeah it can suck, lots of emotional baggage for a mom to have with their kid, but you can do it.

So like i said, screw him.

Remember, NO FATHER IS BETTER THEN A BAD FATHER. And a man who cant stand up and take responsiblity for life, is not someone you would really want in your childs life. Imagine all the things he'll teach your child.

(in reply to luvdragonx)

Post #: 49

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 4:26:18 PM

MsChief

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL:
Give him 3 options

1. You can be in the childs life is you choose
2. You can help me finacially support the child
3. You can get out of my life.

Forcing a man to be responsible is a disaster waiting to happen. No good usually comes from it.

Dear RiotGirl.
Thank you. I have offered both option 1 and 3 (option 2 is taken care of here in the UK by the Child Support Agency....groans from all parents).

Neither are an option for him as he doesn't want a child full stop. Once again I got the...do the right thing and get rid......today almost sounded like the 'me or it' phrase! I have made him hate me for forcing this on him and he say I am pressurising him.....

It's funny how you see the darker side of people when the sun stops shining!

Stupidly I still hope he will come around to the idea, but regardless of that, there is a child who will be his in this world. It will be his choice how he deals with that. I am open to all options.

Thank you to everyone. Maybe someone else can learn from my stupidity. Even when u think everything is wonderful, don't take the risks unless u know u can deal with the consequences on your own.

One day these tears of sadness will be replaced with tears of joy as I see this child grow up, loved by me. I am giving it the gift of life. I may not be able to give it everything, but what I can give, money cannot buy.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 50

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 4:56:24 PM

luvdragonx

Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

EDITED::POSTED BY ANOPHELES (logged in under luvs nick by accident)

quote:

I may not be able to give it everything, but what I can give, money cannot buy.

Your child will never ask you for more than that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A most unfortunate situation, I certainly agree. A question that springs to my mind is that if he was so committed to you, as a sub should be committed to his or her Dominant, why is he so adamantly opposed to what you want for yourself? Why is he not there to support you, as you have been there to support him. A submissive that does this should just simply ask to be released, IMHO, because if they are not going to be there for you in your most difficult hour, you can't expect them to be there at other moments either. It brings in to question how strong the foundation of your relationship was.

The assertion by some that it was all YOUR responsibility to keep this from happening because you are the Dominant is somewhat myopic. He is still a man, in control of where he chooses to put his penis, and what risks he is willing to take. By the same token, you are a woman, and have full choice to decide what you want in your body, and how you choose to accept it. Engaging in acts that can bring another, helpless life into this world are demanding of dual responsibility, regardless of a power exchange relationship being agreed upon. If he wanted to be your complete submissive, he would ask you what you wanted, and beg for instruction on how to make things work for you, himself, and his unborn child, and he would take pride and satisfaction from being able to do as so you commanded. From your description, you didn't have someone that believes in that responsibility.

< Message edited by luvdragonx -- 10/10/2005 5:26:01 PM >

_____________________________

Never Without Love

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 51

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 6:02:22 PM

girl4you2

Posts: 1622
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsChief
One day these tears of sadness will be replaced with tears of joy as I see this child grow up, loved by me. I am giving it the gift of life. I may not be able to give it everything, but what I can give, money cannot buy.

you will have days of tears and days of smiles, but the love and joy will far outshine the hardest days. children are truly gifts who grow far too quickly. i wish you the best.

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 52

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 6:21:35 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luvdragonx

A question that springs to my mind is that if he was so committed to you, as a sub should be committed to his or her Dominant, why is he so adamantly opposed to what you want for yourself? Why is he not there to support you, as you have been there to support him. A submissive that does this should just simply ask to be released, IMHO, because if they are not going to be there for you in your most difficult hour, you can't expect them to be there at other moments either. It brings in to question how strong the foundation of your relationship was.

I can't agree with this enough. We've been through cancer, aneurysm, accidents, MS, RMS, and we've been there with one another through all of it. Some of our servants aren't with us full-time, but when problems happen in the house, they are right there to lend their support and affection to the trial. At the same time, when the hurricane came, we made sure that each and every one of our submissives was going to somewhere safe, had transportation, and was taken care of before we hit the road (and only had one of them who was reluctant to call us when her shelter fell through, and had a MUCH less than completely enjoyable evacuation). Being there for one another during the dark days is part of what makes the bright, warm days so sweet.

Lady Zephyr

(in reply to luvdragonx)

Post #: 53

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 7:05:26 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

Dear RiotGirl.
Thank you. I have offered both option 1 and 3 (option 2 is taken care of here in the UK by the Child Support Agency....groans from all parents).

Neither are an option for him as he doesn't want a child full stop. Once again I got the...do the right thing and get rid......today almost sounded like the 'me or it' phrase! I have made him hate me for forcing this on him and he say I am pressurising him.....

It's funny how you see the darker side of people when the sun stops shining!

Stupidly I still hope he will come around to the idea, but regardless of that, there is a child who will be his in this world. It will be his choice how he deals with that. I am open to all options.

Thank you to everyone. Maybe someone else can learn from my stupidity. Even when u think everything is wonderful, don't take the risks unless u know u can deal with the consequences on your own.

One day these tears of sadness will be replaced with tears of joy as I see this child grow up, loved by me. I am giving it the gift of life. I may not be able to give it everything, but what I can give, money cannot buy.

i know how you feel sweetie. Mine actually took option 4. Tell the girl you are sterile and there's no way it could be yours <grins> (it gets funnier) THEN go out and knock up the girl your girl caught you with, with two kids. 3 immaculate conceptions. Are you impressed, cos i sure am. Just imagine how many kids he'd have in this world if he wasnt sterile.

As for staying with him, i hope things work out for you. i know its hard. But try and remember that if things are rocky now, they'll prolly only get rockier. Kids are tough to have and they put a big strain on a relationship. <grins> He'll drive you nuts while you're pregnant anyways. LOL i about lobbed my room mates head off for staying in the bathroom too long once.

Really cant believe its "me or it" Thats terrible. Ulimatiums suck dont they? Personally i dont agree with abortion, though i've had one once, and i think its murder of your own flesh in blood. At 6 weeks there's brain activity. Me or it, translates as murder or me. how about kill for me? And the thing about abortion, well i've never heard of it affecting any female well mentally. It just gets to you. Heck i was lighting candles in churches for ages for the little soul. And you think 8 years down the line about that person that will never be. It was something it took a long hard time to forgive myself about. It affects you. i honestly dont know a feeling person who hasnt been affected by it. Your own flesh and blood, apart of you, well it touches the very depths of you. After my abortion at 17, i will never have another. i've told every boyfriend straight up. The first time, i can put it down to not grasping the full effect, not really understanding. But i know now.

On a lighter note, if some one ever tries to give you an ultimatium again, suck your cheeks in and give them a fishy face. They'll either A) think you're nuts B) be aught off gaurd by it C) think you're insulting them or D) understand you're calling them crazy. Try giving them "are you off your rocker" look.. then smile and continue on as if it never happened. For a more direct approach to dealing with these comments, take a GOOD long look at the door look back at them and smile that "knowing" look. Even more direct is saying "dont let the door kick you where my foot should be"

Or you could always just try ignoring him for awhile. It seems to make men stop and think. It gives them abit of space to think. Just shrug your shoulders at him, ignore him for a week and hopefully he'll have some deep personal converstions with himself and get smart. For your sake i hope it all works out the way you want it too and i wish you the best of luck.

another good bit of advice, is to put it in God's hands. Sounds silly, aye i know, but go have a really good conversation with God, let him know what you'd wish, let him know how important it is you, heck tell him everything. Personally i always try and barter with God. = ) And ever since i was about 10 years old i think it was, He's pretty much come through. There's been a few times he hasnt, but over time i have seen the wisdom in why things went the way they went, which wasnt the way i wanted them to go. i always ended up better off when they went the other way then if they hadnt.

Call me crazy and you non religious, but its always seemed to help.

(in reply to MsChief)

Post #: 54

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 7:21:04 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I really don't understand this attitude. Children don't need their fathers? It's not HER kid; it's THEIR kid, and mothers don't have the right to determine what kind of relationship children will have with their fathers.

Another thing: We haven't heard from the man in this situation, and I'm not sure how anyone can make judgments about what happened without hearing his side of the story. This is starting to become a pretty ugly rumorfest, with everyone taking potshots at a man they don't know and who has been described only by someone who feels injured. There's also a big push in this thread to turn this into a political issue, and it's not. It's a personal issue.

And please, before you start flaming me: I'm not DEFENDING the man; I'm only saying that people are making a lot of hasty and strongly stated opinions without knowing much about the situation. I feel as bad for the OP as anyone else, but she had as much to do with what happened as he did (if not MORE); if she came on here just to get people to bash her new baby's father, the strategy seems to have worked just fine. And that doesn't reflect very well on any of us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

You DONT need him and DONT need him in your kids life.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 55

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 9:30:26 PM

sub4mistressnsir

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

simply put...
YOUR Body..
YOUR Mind...
YOUR Heart....
YOUR Choice.....

I understand that your sub.. as a father has a right to speak his opinion.. but that is what it is an opinion...
Talk ..Talk... Talk...

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 56

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 9:53:52 PM

masternissan

Posts: 2
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline

you're all saying he should be held responsible for the pregnancy. also, that this isn't a D\s situation. so if he's responsible why doesn't he get more than opinion. Say an equal say considering his life could be majorly screwed up by this child. you look at children as good things, but unplanned children to men are usually a bigger deal than you know. you keep saying that men don't know what a woman goes through. but you act like you know what a man goes through. how can you actually say that. I know I don't know what a woman goes through.

(in reply to sub4mistressnsir)

Post #: 57

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 10:12:08 PM

MztrsElizabeth

Posts: 12
Joined: 7/28/2004
Status: offline

[:D Is there a site for Domme maternity wear?

_____________________________

Common sense ain't all that common.

(in reply to masternissan)

Post #: 58

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 11:38:07 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Condoms are not 100%, any form of the pill is not 100%, even some forms of surgical sterilization are not 100% (ask one of my sisters).

The only 100% is not to have vaginal-penile intercourse at all.

This is the decision my slave and I have made -- he does not want children, he can do a lot of me with his mouth and hands, and toys, intercourse is not necessary and in fact holds too much risk giving his hard limit of having children.

Maybe it seems unsexy or unkinky to discuss reproduction and everyone's desires and goals but wouldn't it save a lot of heartache?

Given that MsChief did not state she took all possible precautions, and she did not say that she asked her sub to use a condom before intercourse, I hold her responsible for the unfortunate circumstance she finds herself in, because as a Domina, I fully intend to say what happens with me, on me and in me, and if I say no intercourse without condom, you best bet there will not be any, or I'd be here with an entirely different complaint (God forbid).

I'm here to take the unpopular submissive's side, and say that MsChief should have thought about whether or not she wanted babies before going sans protection, and she further should have had some idea about whether or not her sub hates children/reproduction. I suppose I am agreeing that D/s does/did factor into this.
I do believe it is her choice as to whether she should keep the baby because it's her body, but by that same law (which empowers women to choose what to do in terms of having a baby) should by extention endow the lady with primary responsibility for having it, especially in a case where a dominant is setting the rules of engagement (I know this is not covered by the law).

I hope that MsChief's sub will reconsider, and show himself to be honorable enough to care for his child, because in the end only the child would suffer from being deprived of one parent.
I'm sorry you're in this situation MsChief, because I think that a sub who abandoned me at a time like this would surely never have an opportunity to be with me again. In support of you, I will say that some children are better off with one good/loving parent, than two destructive ones. I'm a sinlge mom, and my child is the greatest blessing ever bestowed on me. M
Let the flames begin! **BlkTall runs and hides**

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 10/10/2005 11:50:18 PM >

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 59

RE: Unplanned pregnancy....D/s view - 10/10/2005 11:57:47 PM

girl4you2

Posts: 1622
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsChief
One day these tears of sadness will be replaced with tears of joy as I see this child grow up, loved by me. I am giving it the gift of life. I may not be able to give it everything, but what I can give, money cannot buy.

you will have days of tears and days of smiles, but the love and joy will far outshine the hardest days. children are truly gifts who grow far too quickly. i wish you the best.

i think the main thing here is to offer hope, guidance about raising children, and respect MsChief's decision to have her baby, even if it's alone. should she have the father's help, then all the better definitely; kids do best with two parents. but either way, i think the best thing is to focus on solutions, not blame. she's decided to have her baby, so i don't see the harm in wishing her the best with it and letting her know how precious children are.

(in reply to girl4you2)

Post #: 60

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