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RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 6:31:25 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
One final thought as a mid fifties overweight diebetic with arthrites what chance to I have attempting to defend myself against a 20 year old intruder if we both have knives?

Why would he have a knife and not a gun, why would he also not have been on the gun training course to get a gun license some years ago when he was a different person entirely? Now he has a drug habit but he still remembers how to use a gun.

What chance do you have then? I know I'm stacking the deck against you here but it's best to be prepared, not just hopeful of a perfect situation where owning a gun will be of use to you.

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Post #: 101

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 6:32:21 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

We had a serial guy do that 20 times in three years, he came through the back door with a shotgun and knives. Let's see Fido take that on. Personally, I'd rather have a glock. That way the bad guy gets dead instead of my beloved pet.

          Home security isn't one magic thing, Smith. For starters, "Fido" is a lot more likely than I am to sense somebody moving towards the back door to begin with, and let us know about it. Then he is going to slow down the attacker enough for one of us to dial 911 on a cordless phone and throw it under a coffee table and get moving towards other lines of defense. And the sound of him firing the shotgun at one of my dogs is going to have three of my neighbors on the phone to cops.   Whatever order of priorities he had in mind coming through the door goes right out the window. And I guaran-fucking-tee, he won't be getting ahold of my dogs and using them on me.

      Should we all carry our loaded Glocks 24/7? Have it right there on the couch while snuggling up with our someone special, watching a movie? Maybe keep it in a ziploc bag while we shower? Carry it into the kitchen when going for a midnight snack?

         I own firearms. I'm very committed to a certain document that says the US gov't has no right to deprive me of them. If I need to use them to defend myself and mine, they will be loaded with the deadliest ammunition the law allows. They are tools for making things dead, not a substitute for a penis.

        Dogs are not a perfect defense. Guns are not a perfect defense. 911 isn't perfect, either, especially on a busy night. They back each other up nicely, though.

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Post #: 102

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 6:35:25 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1
huh, i'll take that as a "yes it's okay to protect yourself in your own home against a fucktard intruder."

Reasonable force would be OK in the UK but since guns are illegal here there would be not reason no have one and so the force wouldn't be reasonable. Luckily I live in a country were guns are not stolen from houses and so readily available. The only gun crime here is perpetrated by idiot teenagers following rap legends to their death.

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Post #: 103

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 6:36:56 PM

christine1

Posts: 6155
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From: i'm headed to HIM...
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
One final thought as a mid fifties overweight diebetic with arthrites what chance to I have attempting to defend myself against a 20 year old intruder if we both have knives?

Why would he have a knife and not a gun, why would he also not have been on the gun training course to get a gun license some years ago when he was a different person entirely? Now he has a drug habit but he still remembers how to use a gun.

What chance do you have then? I know I'm stacking the deck against you here but it's best to be prepared, not just hopeful of a perfect situation where owning a gun will be of use to you.

so what are you saying here, a rolling pin would be better? come on...you say it's best to be prepared, not just hopeful...well being prepared against a criminal breaking into your home means having a gun. well, or at least a big cast iron skillet...that might work too

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Post #: 104

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 6:44:20 PM

christine1

Posts: 6155
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From: i'm headed to HIM...
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1
huh, i'll take that as a "yes it's okay to protect yourself in your own home against a fucktard intruder."

Reasonable force would be OK in the UK but since guns are illegal here there would be not reason no have one and so the force wouldn't be reasonable. Luckily I live in a country were guns are not stolen from houses and so readily available. The only gun crime here is perpetrated by idiot teenagers following rap legends to their death.

you know, guns aren't just gotten illegally by being stollen from homes, they are sold on the black market and under the radar in private sales. don't put this on the home owners who own guns legally...you are grasping at straws dude.

another point...if lived there, and some tard broke into my home in the middle of the night with an illegal gun, i'd be in trouble if i had one to protect myself? glad i dont' live there.

_____________________________

i am woman! er, godzilla! hear me roar!

http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=2856&sound=/sounds/movies/godzilla/roar.mp3

He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 105

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 6:44:37 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
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Thanks all for your conversation but I have to go. I don't think we resolved anything see you in the next I love guns thread due in under a month.

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Post #: 106

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 6:47:13 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
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Yeah and I'm glad I don't live in a country where someone can lure me to a house and shoot me dead then say they thought I was an intruder.

Think about that.

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Post #: 107

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 6:47:21 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I would be interested to find out how frequently firearms are useful as a line of defense against criminal intent in comparison with the number of times people die or are injured by guns (whether as victims of crime or accident).

No number anybody could come up with would express it, Kitten. It's the knowledge that the guns are out there that does it. True story here. Some years ago, an armed hold-up ended with a dead liquor store clerk, a few blocks from my "grandmother's" house. He fled on foot, and tried to hide in her garage (she was horrible about keeping the door closed). She heard the noise, thought it was a raccoon or stray dog and opened the door from the house, yelling and waving a broom. He fled the garage, right in front of a police car. Why did the murderer run away from an old woman with a broom? He told the cops he thought it was a shotgun.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 4/26/2008 7:16:40 PM >

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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Post #: 108

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 6:48:05 PM

Smith117

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Let me put a different spin on things for one moment.

A woman thinks she sees someone that looks like the person that mugged her, she tells her husband who confronts the suspect with a gun, and the suspect sees an approaching threat pulls out his gun and panics. Someone shoots first, someone dies. The husband approaches the dead body with wife not far behind. The wife says "That's not him." The husband says "fuck we better not tell anyone the truth and I hope there are no witnesses."

Interesting conspiracy theory, I suppose, if you believe that every single human is a cold-blooded killer just waiting for the chance to strike. If, however, you go by the terms I've used, those being "law-abiding citizen" then you have to assume what happened happened. Especially in the instance I described where it was broad daylight and there were witnesses everywhere, not to mention that forensics and everything else backed up the guy's story.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
It’s for a court to decide because some people remind us of other people.

And in this instance, the court would have never gotten that chance, because the husband would have been killed and the mugger-turned killer would have gotten away. In fact, courts often don't get the chance to save a life, because when the killer is in court, it's because he's a KILLER and thus the person is already dead. Pardon me, but I'd rather prevent a murder, than punish the guy "afterward."

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Strange you seem to be approving of circumventing that system.

I am not circumventing anything. People who put CHL laws in place realized that people, good people were being killed and the police were unable to save everyone. So they enacted laws that allow those citizens to protect themselves.

Let me say that again. They enacted LAWS that allow citizens to PROTECT themselves. No one is circumventing anything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
In South Africa the police will even help you cover up a crime for a fee, used to be the case anyway.

This isn't South Africa.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
You wasn’t there with that husband and wife neither was I and yet you believe the couple over the man who can no longer defend himself. God knows what other possibilities could have existed such an irate husband discovering an affaire and a wife helping someone that made a stupid mistake cover up a crime.

Why do you think you know who the victim is just because someone told you?

Well, when witnesses, forensics and everything else indicate it played out the way the guy said, hmmm let me think on this a moment. Yes, I think I'd be willing to believe the guy was telling the truth.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 109

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 6:53:16 PM

Smith117

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Yeah and I'm glad I don't live in a country where someone can lure me to a house and shoot me dead then say they thought I was an intruder.

Think about that.

And when the investigation by the cops indicates you knew the person who lured you to his home, then your preferred method of crime prevention can occur. The cops will know he lured you and they can arrest him.

You'll be dead though. Tough break.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 110

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 6:55:40 PM

Smith117

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Thanks all for your conversation but I have to go. I don't think we resolved anything see you in the next I love guns thread due in under a month.

This post right here is the REASON why there's nothing resolved. You looked at this thread as an "I love guns" thread. So the OP thought the design of a gun was cool, what's the harm in that? He can't admire the workings of a weapon? I take it you never admire a car?

You see, I could go down the sidewalk in my car and mow down 20 people, thus cars can and often are, lethal weapons. Should we prevent citizens from owning their own? Hardly. We train them how to drive and how to recognize the signs of bad things about to happen so they can protect themselves.

I don't think people should be handed weapons like candy, but they shouldn't be prevented from owning them either.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 111

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 7:11:33 PM

christine1

Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Yeah and I'm glad I don't live in a country where someone can lure me to a house and shoot me dead then say they thought I was an intruder.

Think about that.

lure you? sorry joe, but i'm not in the habit of luring criminals into my home..nice try. but if it would make you feel better, if you ever come visit, i'll just use my rolling pin or cast iron skillet ok?

_____________________________

i am woman! er, godzilla! hear me roar!

http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=2856&sound=/sounds/movies/godzilla/roar.mp3

He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 112

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 10:12:12 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

Rube Goldburg would love this pistol.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 113

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 10:23:27 PM

HandSolo

Posts: 323
Joined: 11/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I could easily argue that you have an equal chance of survival if you pose no threat, but we beg to differ as already noted by myself.

I could argue firing a weapon means the attacker has to also fire in return. Whereas he may only have robbed you now he has to also kill you because he is more desperate than you due to the fact he is doing the extreme in the first place.

You could easily argue that. However, in doing so,you would be uncontrovertibly, factually, wrong. The FBI's Crime Victimization Survey, taken from the reports of every crime in a number of categories each year, shows that the chance of being killed is cut in half if the victim defends himself with a firearm, when compared to active compliance to the demands of the attacker, which is the second safest course of action.

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Post #: 114

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/26/2008 10:36:28 PM

Emperor1956

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

Why don't you people go out and get laid or something...SHEEESH. on both sides -- give it a rest. I'm a responsible gun owner, and Smith does not speak for me. He is hysterical and strident, and cannot understand the difference between an anectedote and a fact. OTOH, Full Circle, you know your arguments, you've made them. Clearly you are talking to a stone wall. So don't you know when to quit?

In fact, this "debate" typifies the knee-jerk reactions on both sides of the gun control issue. I quit paying NRA dues when they started lobbying in favor of "cop killer" bullets (come on...you need those to take your deer?) and lobbying against reasonable restrictions on firearm purchases (WHY does any private citizen need to buy more than one gun a week?) But I also regret that guns are so demonized that if I suggested an afternoon breaking clay targets as a date to kittin or christine, they'd probably never speak to me again *SIGH*

Full C. and Smith: You are both wrong. You are both right. Now could you try not to type something in reply to this message?

E.

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"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

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Post #: 115

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/27/2008 1:28:39 AM

Smith117

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

Why don't you people go out and get laid or something...SHEEESH. on both sides -- give it a rest. I'm a responsible gun owner, and Smith does not speak for me. He is hysterical and strident, and cannot understand the difference between an anectedote and a fact. OTOH, Full Circle, you know your arguments, you've made them. Clearly you are talking to a stone wall. So don't you know when to quit?

In fact, this "debate" typifies the knee-jerk reactions on both sides of the gun control issue. I quit paying NRA dues when they started lobbying in favor of "cop killer" bullets (come on...you need those to take your deer?) and lobbying against reasonable restrictions on firearm purchases (WHY does any private citizen need to buy more than one gun a week?) But I also regret that guns are so demonized that if I suggested an afternoon breaking clay targets as a date to kittin or christine, they'd probably never speak to me again *SIGH*

Full C. and Smith: You are both wrong. You are both right. Now could you try not to type something in reply to this message?

E.

I didn't quote hard facts because the others already did. It's all in the FBI crime stats, look 'em up.

I am not hysterical, I don't even own a gun. I do plan to get one for defense purposes soon, though. I know that when the chips are down and the shit's hit the fan "some" chance is better than "no" chance for me.

Edited to add:
I just love how you say FullCircle made his points but I didn't, especially since I used 'anecdotes' from the NEWS as opposed to his infinite "what if" scenarios.

Cute....nice try, but yet, not.

And one more thing, I also nearly laughed when you came on bashing this discussion, trying to shoot holes in my "hysterics" that didn't exist, than try and take the "high road" after that back-handed slam on me. Nice one.

< Message edited by Smith117 -- 4/27/2008 1:30:58 AM >

(in reply to Emperor1956)

Post #: 116

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/27/2008 3:53:09 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117
I used 'anecdotes' from the NEWS as opposed to his infinite "what if" scenarios.

The news gets reported correctly all the time doesn't it? How is it people don't trust news organisations when it reports things with a certain angle that goes against them but are happy to use news stories as evidence?

Sorry I'd rather keep an open mind with my 'what ifs'. You made some good points but you failed to convince me I'd want to be carrying a gun anytime soon. Maybe it's the fact I don't feel that threat that makes our social confidence better on the whole. If someone robs me he knows he isn't going to need a gun to do so. I don’t know how you fix that in your society without realising desperate people do desperate things and don’t necessarily deserve to die for them.

Although if I was in a gang I'd probably think I needed one for protection and this you see is where the majority of gun crime is restricted to in the UK; young people carrying for protection. Obviously they don't have the training you have but if they didn't think everyone was out to kill them they wouldn't need it either. Maybe you should start a programme that trains gang members in how to use guns? Everyone has a right to protect themselves with guns after all.

I'm not going to discuss this further because if I've given you nothing to think about then I wasted all of yesterday and I'm not going to waste all of today.

Thanks

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Post #: 117

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/27/2008 3:58:21 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Thanks all for your conversation but I have to go. I don't think we resolved anything see you in the next I love guns thread due in under a month.

This post right here is the REASON why there's nothing resolved. You looked at this thread as an "I love guns" thread. So the OP thought the design of a gun was cool, what's the harm in that? He can't admire the workings of a weapon? I take it you never admire a car?

Come on, this is guns as wank material, if one was really into mechanical design of the highest order, one would be drooling over something like mecanical watches. Guns is the love interest here, let's not kid ourselves.

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Post #: 118

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/27/2008 4:13:23 AM

Smith117

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Come on, this is guns as wank material, if one was really into mechanical design of the highest order, one would be drooling over something like mecanical watches. Guns is the love interest here, let's not kid ourselves.

Why can't guns be admired? Why is it someone can admire a piece of military hardware such as a plane or a tank and no one minds. But you admire a gun, and suddenly you're some kind of psycho killer?

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 119

RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. - 4/27/2008 4:25:24 AM

Smith117

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
The news gets reported correctly all the time doesn't it? How is it people don't trust news organisations when it reports things with a certain angle that goes against them but are happy to use news stories as evidence?

Oh I don't know...perhaps when the POLICE are speaking on the news and giving the facts....I don't know....I'm just...inclined to believe them. Call me crazy!

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Sorry I'd rather keep an open mind with my 'what ifs'.

Open mind with 'what ifs' yet closed mind with the prospect of needing a firearm for protection. Interesting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
You made some good points but you failed to convince me I'd want to be carrying a gun anytime soon.

I wasn't trying to convince you. If you'd prefer to be unarmed when the time comes that your life is in danger, that's totally up to you. I, however will not be. I may still die.....but in my opinion 'may' is better than 'will.'

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Although if I was in a gang I'd probably think I needed one for protection and this you see is where the majority of gun crime is restricted to in the UK; young people carrying for protection. Obviously they don't have the training you have but if they didn't think everyone was out to kill them they wouldn't need it either. Maybe you should start a programme that trains gang members in how to use guns? Everyone has a right to protect themselves with guns after all.

Nothing anywhere in this thread had anything to do with being in a gang. Gang members claim they need the guns for protection, yet they also rob, pillage, steal, etc. I'd tend to think that ruins their credibility.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
I'm not going to discuss this further because if I've given you nothing to think about then I wasted all of yesterday and I'm not going to waste all of today.

I didn't waste any of yesterday. Had a pretty full day. Went to a movie, went to the store, went out to eat.

The only thing you gave me to think about is the unfortunate truth that some people would rather be helpless victims. That's really what it boils down to. If a person intends you harm, you will be at their mercy, their very whim on whether or not they are drunk enough with the power that weapon gives them that they decide to pull the trigger. Your opinion may change, it may not. You might find you need a gun, and you might not.

You know what? I hope I never, ever, ever get faced with having to pull a gun to save my life. I hope I carry one around and 20 years from now wonder "damn that thing is heavy, why the hell did I burden myself with it?" But if......*IF* the time comes when I need one.....I will have one.

I'd rather have one and never, ever need it; than to need one desperately and be without.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 120

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