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RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 2:55:47 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Btw what is worse... innocent peopel killed by self exploding angry Afghanies ..or people who die because they take THEMSELFs drugs.
sounds harsh..but soemtimes we have to make shitty decisions.

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RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 2:58:26 PM   
BoiJen


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Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		Justme I'll agree with you there. And what's one of the ways to stop  people from ODing? Couldn't possibly be destroying the source could it? BTW I'm not just an advocate for eliminating this in Afghanistan...grow pot and sell it legally in the US...like alcohol most peope will get ill before they kill anyone with the grass. Other drugs aren't quite the same.

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RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 2:58:37 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

This is fucked up. Here's two direct threats to the US. Afghanistan supplies 98% of the world's opium for heroin. And direct emenies of the US like the Taliban openly tax these local farmers and use the money ot buy weapons. Anybody else find the problem with the situation of leaving the crops.

Strategically, the unit needs to evacuate the locals or at least give them warning before destroying every inch of crop there.


It would not be strategic to evacuate the locals.  You are talking about a country the size of Texas.  How would you work out the logistics of relocating hundreds of thousands of people?  Where would you send them?  Opium has been grown there for a thousand years, and we couldn't eradicate the crops if we wanted to.  The Marines are not the DEA, and they aren't there to do drug intervention.  It's not their job, and they would be hated by the locals if they tried.  The Taliban doesn't "tax" the locals; they extort them.  The people in that region hate them, and it is in our best interest to keep it that way.  The drug policy of Afghanistan is Afghanistan's responsiblity, not our's. 

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RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 3:00:30 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

You're right it's not just supporting the Taliban. It's supporting several other illegal groups and activities that threaten the US on many level. So I guess it's okay then to continue to not address the issue in a way that actually gives results?

GREAT! The soultion to the problem...allow the problem to continue. Fucking amazing, no wonder I didn't think of that first!


I wish the world was that simple. All people in Afghanistan are evil so lets kill them all and there will be no repercussion but that is not how it works.

What we started to originally do, take out the Taliban and work with Afghanistan to help change it/stop the growing of drugs, was a good plan in theory but then King George decided to put all of our resources in Iraq and therefore we never did get rid of the Taliban and our actions have made them even more dependent on the drugs.

The world is complex and the people who think simple answers work just make the problems larger.


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RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 3:01:02 PM   
BoiJen


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Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		They hate them so much that they don't put up a fight...right? And that's why locals in Afghanistan are attacking US troops too...cuz they hate the Taliban that much? While I don't think they are buddy buddy...I think they'd rather deal with the Taliban than the US...and in situations where there's gun fire exchanged daily...you're either on one side or the other.

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RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 3:03:58 PM   
DupedDom


Posts: 65
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline 		Opium and Hashish have been flowing out of that region of the world for years. Two world wars and an occupation by the Russians could not stop it. I think we should get rid of the Taliban firstly, then try and negotiate to eliminate those crops. Just like the Columbians, it is the only cash crop that they know.

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RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 3:05:44 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Put up a fight with what?  Do you think the local farmers are armed to the teeth?  The locals are extremely poor people.  They don't make that much money off of their crops.  If you would read a little more about the opium trade, you'd know that.  The Taliban is comparable to the Mafia.  They use coersion and violence to keep the locals in line.  As for attacking U.S. troops, what are you talking about?  These people aren't attacking U.S. troops.  They don't have the capability to attack anyone.  That's why they are "taxed" by the Taliban.  They don't want anything but to be left in peace and feed their families. 

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 3:30:30 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Justme I'll agree with you there. And what's one of the ways to stop  people from ODing? Couldn't possibly be destroying the source could it? BTW I'm not just an advocate for eliminating this in Afghanistan...grow pot and sell it legally in the US...like alcohol most peope will get ill before they kill anyone with the grass. Other drugs aren't quite the same.
Well, yanno, could be one way to cut down on opiate deaths is to decriminalize, allow addicted people to use under medical supervision with no adulterants in the stuff and with sterile equipment, and, wow, I'll bet the "OD" rate goes waaaay down.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 3:33:39 PM   
calamitysandra


Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Justme I'll agree with you there. And what's one of the ways to stop  people from ODing? Couldn't possibly be destroying the source could it? BTW I'm not just an advocate for eliminating this in Afghanistan...grow pot and sell it legally in the US...like alcohol most peope will get ill before they kill anyone with the grass. Other drugs aren't quite the same.
Well, yanno, could be one way to cut down on opiate deaths is to decriminalize, allow addicted people to use under medical supervision with no adulterants in the stuff and with sterile equipment, and, wow, I'll bet the "OD" rate goes waaaay down.


You did not read the memo that said, that telling this (among others) truth is verboten, right?

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 3:35:40 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
The drug policy of Afghanistan is Afghanistan's responsiblity, not our's. 


well we conquered it more or less...so it is our problem. And now we don't know what to do.
Did they world change a lott in the positive way by doing all of this?  not really
So best is to leave.....and safe the money for educatiion about the effects of drugs.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 3:37:11 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Justme I'll agree with you there. And what's one of the ways to stop  people from ODing? Couldn't possibly be destroying the source could it? BTW I'm not just an advocate for eliminating this in Afghanistan...grow pot and sell it legally in the US...like alcohol most peope will get ill before they kill anyone with the grass. Other drugs aren't quite the same.
Well, yanno, could be one way to cut down on opiate deaths is to decriminalize, allow addicted people to use under medical supervision with no adulterants in the stuff and with sterile equipment, and, wow, I'll bet the "OD" rate goes waaaay down.


You did not read the memo that said, that telling this (among others) truth is verboten, right?
Fick mich! Did I miss ANOTHER memo???

(in reply to calamitysandra)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 3:39:41 PM   
calamitysandra


Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Fick mich! Did I miss ANOTHER memo???


With pleasure!
Most likely while you were stoned. 

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 3:58:14 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Fick mich! Did I miss ANOTHER memo???


With pleasure!
Most likely while you were stoned. 
Hahahaha!
Yeah, that must be it. Stoned.

(in reply to calamitysandra)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 4:07:26 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		There was a major problem a few decades back with Turkey putting out loads of opium. An agreement was reached for the west to purchase the crop for medical use (and/or burning the whole lot?).

The easy solution for this current situation, given all the factors involved, would be to purchase the crop and then destroy it. Preferably paying a little more than the open market for it - which cant be a lot, considering Afghani derived heroin in my neighbourhood is currently five pounds a go.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 4:09:42 PM   
snappykappy


Posts: 616
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Status: offline 		i have always wondered how those havesting it arn't blitzed all of the time getting the sap in through cuts and other seepage into the skin

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 4:09:55 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Thats kind of what I was trying to say earlier.  Then we offer them cheap food and we become tolerable to them.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 4:14:53 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Good one IrishKnight - they can use their revenue for food, which we supply. Cut the Taliban out entirely, (though that would require a little more than simply this so far).

The knock on effects in our societies could be bad though - reducing the heroin supply will raise the price, which means more crime for addicts to feed their habit.

Instead, we take the opium, process it ourselves and supply the addicts - so cutting out their need for petty crime, and eliminating a major shade of organised crime (with knock effects for reduced enforcement costs)

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 4:18:56 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		That would make as much sense as legalizing pot.  I suspect it won't happen in my lifetime.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 4:22:56 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Oh we wouldnt be legalising heroin IK - we'd be making it available to those already hooked, who would receive it with a view to achieving the aims in the previous post, and reducing their dependency - but with the difference from programs like that we have now being, no penalty for slipping back.

And we'd do exactly as we do now with dealers and addicts who dont come into the new program.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Marines Ignore Opium Crops in Afghanistan - 5/7/2008 4:32:47 PM   
orfunboi


Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline 		Is opium illegal there? If not, how do we justify destroying their income? I realize that the drug problem is huge, but I'm not sure it's our place to go over there and start burning fields just because we think it's wrong.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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