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RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 1:12:33 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

WOW!

Some of you just can't read.

I suppose I do struggle with words of more than one syllable, but I manage to muddle through somehow.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

As Raven said "suspect" doesn't mean guilty it means that I consider them suspect if they have ALWAYS avoided being part of the scene

Your call on the constitution of "suspect" in your language.

For me, suspect entails suspicious behaviour from which to generate suspicion; such behaviour can be judged only when you are privy to the goings on inside the four walls of someone's home.

It's not enough to call suspicion on the grounds that an individual is averse to a scene. Take a look at the gay "scene"; a fair proportion of gay lads and lasses simply aren't interested in "the scene". It hardly renders them the object of suspicion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

When I said "be true to yourself" I simply meant relax and not have to project an image of vanilla or whatever other masks we wear.

Fair enough, but, again, we have a difference of opinion.

It would be unwise to swan around assuming overt dominant mode in all aspects of life. At work, there are codes of ethics and behaviour to which the wise move would be to adhere; ditto with regard to family. For me, these things are unavoidable, and living life bound by certain codes and unwritten rules is immaterial to this discussion, because, unless a person is prepared to live a life of solitude, I'm afraid we're all going to have to bend to norms of behaviour - regardless of whether or not involved in the scene.

Then again, I have no problem relaxing at work or with family - I'm not trying to dominate them; I'm simply trying to earn my bread and enjoy my time with my family.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

there are few places I can truly just be me and not worry about being judged.

I doubt the man down the street is remotely interested in my private life, and if he were, then it's no skin off my nose.

This sounds corny but it's true - when a person is relaxed, he/she couldn't care less about what the next man thinks. It's all in the mind.

Edited for quotes.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 5/11/2008 1:13:39 PM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 61

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 1:27:56 PM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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OOOH, you are SO sensitive and evolved. As for your straw men, your long winded semantic games bore me, you are one of the reasons I don't bother with the politcs section here, you could find offense in someone saying they love animals and then want to dissect what love means...

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 62

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 1:45:37 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

OOOH, you are SO sensitive and evolved. As for your straw men, your long winded semantic games bore me, you are one of the reasons I don't bother with the politcs section here, you could find offense in someone saying they love animals and then want to dissect what love means...

I hear you're involved with "the scene"....I see you have a penchant for drama. Chicken and egg, perhaps.

Michael, when you don't agree with what you hear, it's wise to respond with a counter-argument, as opposed to the above rant.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 63

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 1:51:37 PM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Perhaps this is the crux of where we part company - some of us are of the mindset that we are under no obligation to prove a single thing to anyone.

And no-one expects them to 'prove' anything, they can simply keep avoiding meeting people in a social setting and being percieved as 'suspect'.

Remember a discussion We had a long time ago, if you are going duck hunting you will have better luck down the duck pond than sitting in a chicken coop!

If you want to play recluse, fine by Me but don't complain about not being given a chance, not finding what you are looking for or being viewed as suspect... it comes with the choice you made.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 64

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 2:11:44 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Another problem with wording kills off the idea that the not into the scene folks have a more enlightened view.

Item #1 the idea that hiding a penchant for abiuse is easier when practiced in private without the need to protect a lasting reputation. Sure there have been serial abusers who have formed their little groups and held sway over a community for awhile but it doesn't take long to find out that is their game. Their sway is usually short lived and their reputation sticks to them much longer than the reputation of an anonymous screen name. Over comming a reputation for abuse is as simple as a couple mouse clicks online,( See any of the thousands of rant threads on the subject in any online service to confirm), however in an RT community you actually have a bit more trouble making a fresh start. It's not a cure all and it has it's down sides but one thing RT social groups do provide is verifiable reputations. Suspect, can be debated all day long and semantic battled to death the bottom line is it's easier and faster to gather more information about someone in your local community than it is to gather that same level of information about someone who is "private". Please make special note that in no way does this claim there are more predators in either camp, it mearly points out that it's easier to conceal a bad history when you are private, and more difficult to conceal it when you are active in a community.

#2 the idea that we bond together based on the single common interest?
I've seen nobody who has claimed that they bond instantly with any and all folks who share the interests in BDSM Fetsh etc. What I have seen is that folks who gather at BDSM, fetish social gatherings then look beyond the one interest to see it they also share other things. I certainly spend little time talking to folks who only share my BDSM interests, if they share that interest the conversation will inevitably move on to other subjects, and if they seem interesting then maybe something more gets shared. Almost every freindship a person has started off with a single shared thing. Went to the same school, attended the same movie, shared a freindship with the same person, etc.... They start off with a single shared interest and build from there. To eliminate BDSM from the list of appropriate starting point shared interests seems silly to me, as silly as any other starting point shared interest. No it's not enough to sustain a freindship all by itself in most cases, but who's saying those of us who attend are using it in that way?

< Message edited by Archer -- 5/11/2008 2:14:31 PM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 65

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 2:15:59 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

~Married to Master on 5-1-08~

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Thank you, ownedgirlie. We went to WV for the wedding and had a week-long honeymoon there and in KY. It, like everything else with Him, was blissful

. We can be counted as one couple who met here on CM and have enjoyed great success. Hey, we've just got to meet up now. You're an avid traveller and what with us both being "suspect" now for refusing to perform publicly, that's just one more thing we have in common

................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 66

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 2:21:38 PM

Archer

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Joined: 3/11/2005
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Have to agree with Raven here, If one has no reputation in the local scene to check on then I'm going to dig deeper for longer. It's not a matter of how long, but rather a matter of when I get enough information. If I get X amount of information in a week or a month or a year does not matter the person is not getting beyond set points until that level of information is gathered.

How you choose to gather your information is up to you, how easy or hard it is to gather the information about you is up to you. I'm not chnaging my standards of information because you make that choice to be private, nor am I going to advocate than anyone else take the "next step" until they have gathered their information.

Performance based in other words. LOL

< Message edited by Archer -- 5/11/2008 2:22:41 PM >

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 67

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 2:55:43 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

I attended the Backdrop orientation in San Francisco about 15 years ago. It seemed too much like R-rated Dungeons and Dragons to me, so I didn't go back. Maybe I was there on a bad day, or not looking for the right things.

The first woman I met online-to-real from CM was the founder of the largest group in this state. She told me though that she almost never goes to meetings any more, because it's like, "Oh, he used to be my Dom, and hey, he used to be my sub," and half the people had a past relationship with each other, so it was a bit of a soap opera. That kinda put me off.

I don't go to demonstrations much. I did attend a meeting of another local group when they were talking about the laws regarding assault and BDSM. I learned a few things, and was able to help with a couple topics that came up. One nationally known presenter who I "met" through the CM message boards offered to come up and teach if I got a group together. I've been slow about that. Once I finish this project.......

I've dated people involved in scenes, including a former fetish model. Does that count?

I certainly agree that I could never say "X person is safe to play with" unless I had personally witnessed that person's performance.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 68

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 3:36:29 PM

LordOfTheMad

Posts: 24
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

I don 't like scenes full stop. Full of bullshit and stupid politics. Plus, like the person said above interbred as well. If not wanting to buy into that makes me "suspect" then knackers. I'll quite happily go for drinks, go to events and that but the preposition that I am suspect just because I haven't and I am some kind of lesser is nonsense. I quite happily talk to people on here and I'll quite happily meet people off here in safe surroundings and what have you and use my own judgement as to whether they're trustworthy. I don't need some kind of scene C.V. and reference service anymore than dating in non BDSM circles. Am I supposed to be attracted to a situation where forming a new relationship is influenced by those I've likely had unsuccesful ones with? Quite frankly, I'm not.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 69

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 4:04:32 PM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

Am I supposed to be attracted to a situation where forming a new relationship is influenced by those I've likely had unsuccesful ones with? Quite frankly, I'm not

I rest my case...

(in reply to LordOfTheMad)

Post #: 70

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 4:20:39 PM

LordOfTheMad

Posts: 24
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

Am I supposed to be attracted to a situation where forming a new relationship is influenced by those I've likely had unsuccesful ones with? Quite frankly, I'm not

I rest my case...

You rest what case? The one to make uniform judgements of people based on where they socialise? If I or anyone else is happy with a life that doesn't involve a BDSM scene, what's it to you?

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 71

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 4:54:19 PM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Who said anything about uniform judgements? We were talking about how it is harder for certain types of people to hide their past in a public scene. If you are part of a larger community it is more difficult to hide a trail of emotional wreckage left behind with past lovers.

Someone who picks partners well and parts with them on good terms has nothing to fear from the truth about prior relationships and would in fact consider them as friends. Now that is as true in and out of the scene but it sort of negates that as a reason to reject being involved.

(in reply to LordOfTheMad)

Post #: 72

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 4:54:45 PM

Archer

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Joined: 3/11/2005
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Again and again and again it happens Someone mentions an upside or a down side and everyone wants to jump on it like it's the be all end all point.

Don't like the fact that you being an UNKNOWN makes you supect, and thus requireing more checking into your background until the level of information required has been reached? Generally reinforces the suspicion. ANYONE who is unknown to me is somewhat suspect, how long they remain suspect is always a function of when I get enough information about them to be comfortable. How that is reached doesn't matter. But how much energy I have to put into checking them out will certainly make a difference in how motivated I am to do so and move them along to points B,C,D etc...

Faced with a choice between "person A" a memeber of the community known by some folks and "person B" private person with no references telling me they are in fact a decent person. Person A starts off with a significant head start because the information I need to be comfortable with them is easily and quickly available. This isn't to say that I would ignore person B at all but rather that because they chose to remain private it's going to take longer. Up to each of us how we want to restrict information about ourselves. But to do so without thought that the natural consequences may be that someone passes us by (cutting both ways)or that someone else reaches that level of intimacy first and thus we are left behind is short sighted.

(in reply to LordOfTheMad)

Post #: 73

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 5:09:16 PM

Vigilantejustice

Posts: 106
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline

I hate me too posts, but there's really little more I could say than this.
Cheers, Sir! Huzzah!
-Corinne
House Vigilante
(Part of a fantastic local community, moved from another fantastic community. We're either tolerant, or spoiled. Probably both.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Another problem with wording kills off the idea that the not into the scene folks have a more enlightened view.

Item #1 the idea that hiding a penchant for abiuse is easier when practiced in private without the need to protect a lasting reputation. Sure there have been serial abusers who have formed their little groups and held sway over a community for awhile but it doesn't take long to find out that is their game. Their sway is usually short lived and their reputation sticks to them much longer than the reputation of an anonymous screen name. Over comming a reputation for abuse is as simple as a couple mouse clicks online,( See any of the thousands of rant threads on the subject in any online service to confirm), however in an RT community you actually have a bit more trouble making a fresh start. It's not a cure all and it has it's down sides but one thing RT social groups do provide is verifiable reputations. Suspect, can be debated all day long and semantic battled to death the bottom line is it's easier and faster to gather more information about someone in your local community than it is to gather that same level of information about someone who is "private". Please make special note that in no way does this claim there are more predators in either camp, it mearly points out that it's easier to conceal a bad history when you are private, and more difficult to conceal it when you are active in a community.

#2 the idea that we bond together based on the single common interest?
I've seen nobody who has claimed that they bond instantly with any and all folks who share the interests in BDSM Fetsh etc. What I have seen is that folks who gather at BDSM, fetish social gatherings then look beyond the one interest to see it they also share other things. I certainly spend little time talking to folks who only share my BDSM interests, if they share that interest the conversation will inevitably move on to other subjects, and if they seem interesting then maybe something more gets shared. Almost every freindship a person has started off with a single shared thing. Went to the same school, attended the same movie, shared a freindship with the same person, etc.... They start off with a single shared interest and build from there. To eliminate BDSM from the list of appropriate starting point shared interests seems silly to me, as silly as any other starting point shared interest. No it's not enough to sustain a freindship all by itself in most cases, but who's saying those of us who attend are using it in that way?

_____________________________

“Love begets love. This torment is my joy.”
"Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries."
"[Your work] is carved out of agony as a statue is carved out of marble." -All by Theodore Roethke

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 74

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 5:13:39 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordOfTheMad
Am I supposed to be attracted to a situation where forming a new relationship is influenced by those I've likely had unsuccesful ones with?

Any woman in my life is going to find that our relationship is influenced by my previous, "unsuccessful" relationships -- because I am still friends with my former girlfriends and dating partners. (There is one exception to this, but we had two meals together, and never did anything physical. She thinks I'm immature, and I think she's insane. Whaddaya gonna do?)

I find women attractive because they are compassionate and intelligent... and physically hot. Why would I not want someone like that in my life even if we are not sleeping together?

Beyond that, I could not care less if someone knows I'm kinky. I'll be in Florida in a few weeks, and I just sent my name and lab web page to five Florida CM people. Openness and honesty goes a long way. I've had several people offer to be a reference for me, and I've never had a single woman ask for them. I think the potential problem Michael and Archer are talking about comes up when someone's trying to play a short-term (predatory) game with someone naive, instead of being in this for the long haul.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LordOfTheMad)

Post #: 75

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 5:16:29 PM

lronitulstahp

Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline

{Pipes in}...i have his info!!!

It's like the golden tickets in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory....
~veruca slut

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 76

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 5:23:21 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Another problem with wording kills off the idea that the not into the scene folks have a more enlightened view

I don't see that idea proposed much at all in comparison to the thought that those who AREN'T are somehow fakes or dangerous, "suspect" people who have sinister reasons for not making their relationships/scening public. It's not all about "bad" people trying to hide their predatory activities. Some people don't feel any desire to go out in public and perform in front of other people or go to "munches" and talk about their most intimate activities. Why does that make them "suspect" or untrustworthy?

quote:

...it mearly points out that it's easier to conceal a bad history when you are private, and more difficult to conceal it when you are active in a community

So how does the so-called "vanilla world" handle this? Most daters don't feel it necessary to be part of some group or "community" in order to become fully-informed about those they choose to date or become intimate with. How are they ever to be protected from potential "bad," "suspect" partners if they don't have a local munch group or play party group to guide them and inform them all about their potential partner? Frankly, that's a ridiculous notion. "Vanilla" people meet mates, date, move in together, get married and whathaveyou every single day with no "community" guiding their decisions and filling them in on their partner's merits or lack thereof. Why are BDSM'ers so different and so much more vulnerable than they are? They aren't. At least I'm not.

quote:

They start off with a single shared interest and build from there. To eliminate BDSM from the list of appropriate starting point shared interests seems silly to me, as silly as any other starting point shared interest. No it's not enough to sustain a freindship all by itself in most cases, but who's saying those of us who attend are using it in that way?

You make a good point here. I guess my biggest issue with this whole discussion is saying that those of us who don't participate in public play parties and munches are somehow "suspect." That makes as much sense as saying all those who do are mere exhibitionists who aren't serious enough about their relationships to subsist on private, intimate moments and have to dress up and get in front of audience to win their approval before feeling genuine enough. See, applying such a broad statement to all public players is bullshit. And so is saying all those who refuse to are "suspect." It goes both ways indeed...............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 77

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 5:26:28 PM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

I frequently see people recommend/place importance on being active in the local scene. I have an objection to this I'd like to talk about.
Many years ago, there was no local scene in our area...the nearest was almost two hours away. That was a long drive for us then, let alone now with gas prices the way they are. We tried to start a munch, but it didn't fly...not enough people showed up, we had trouble finding a venue that was at all comfortable, etc.
Later, another couple started a munch in the same town...they were more successful, but, when we went, we didn't like the venue (it was LOUD) and didn't connect with anyone in a positive way and there were some sleazeballs.
Still later, we'd moved and now found a group that was about an hour away. We went, but felt unwelcomed (except by one clearly desperately lonely individual who was less than appealing to say the least.) Again, we weren't comfortable at all.
Now, we're not particularly weird or alienating...I'm mildly geeky/an introvert, he's highly socially skilled. We're a femdom couple, yes, and I think that DID play a part at the last place...we seemed to be about the only ones there (possibly one other, but VERY different style). We have reasonable social success in other situations, so I really don't think it's "us" in that sense. Just because you have one thing in common with people doesn't mean you'll have others or that you'll like each other at all for that matter.
That was all BEFORE we had children. Now, we can barely get babysitting for just "us-time" every once in a while, let alone to regularly go to a munch or club. We don't have the cash to pay (and I'm not ready to trust my toddler to virtual strangers anyway, let alone my upcoming newborn) and no one local who wouldn't start to question what we were up to in an awkward way. So, frankly, being active in our (semi-)local scene just isn't very feasible at all.
I'm sure a lot of people have similar stories. So, what do you do when your local scene isn't available or appealing? How do you deal with the pressure to be "active in the scene" when that's not very feasible or when it's simply not to your taste?

OK, so you tried it and it didn't work for you.

You don't seem to be searching FOR someone.....that's the biggest thing that (we, the folks here) suggest to others to venture out and meet real humans for. That, or when they need a dose of reality.....because their living behind their computer screen in their fantasy world doesn't seem to placate them any longer.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to DominantJenny)

Post #: 78

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 5:29:08 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Perhaps this is the crux of where we part company - some of us are of the mindset that we are under no obligation to prove a single thing to anyone.

And no-one expects them to 'prove' anything, they can simply keep avoiding meeting people in a social setting and being percieved as 'suspect'.

Remember a discussion We had a long time ago, if you are going duck hunting you will have better luck down the duck pond than sitting in a chicken coop!

If you want to play recluse, fine by Me but don't complain about not being given a chance, not finding what you are looking for or being viewed as suspect... it comes with the choice you made.

There are a fair few assumptions in your post, Raven, as per the emboldened.

Although I can't understand the logic in it, it's your call if you want to make the blanket judgement that people whom you don't know, are 'suspect' - it's neither here nor there, as far as I'm concerned. In the event you're not prepared to budge from that stance, we'll simply have to agree to differ.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 79

RE: Not into the local scene. - 5/11/2008 5:34:42 PM

LordOfTheMad

Posts: 24
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Who said anything about uniform judgements? We were talking about how it is harder for certain types of people to hide their past in a public scene. If you are part of a larger community it is more difficult to hide a trail of emotional wreckage left behind with past lovers.

Someone who picks partners well and parts with them on good terms has nothing to fear from the truth about prior relationships and would in fact consider them as friends. Now that is as true in and out of the scene but it sort of negates that as a reason to reject being involved.

You did, you said anyone who never gets involved with the scene is suspect. Well, that's me, I've never got involved and I've not decided whether I will or not. I know where the munches etc are I may or may not go but if I don't it means jack shit to anyone else.

No, it doesn't negate in my eyes. Maybe if you're doing casual play but anything where feelings are involved may just end up in an unobjective appraisal (or more simply, a load of a bitching from a hurt party) . Plus, just because someone is a complete disaster with person A doesn't mean they will be with Person B.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 80

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