RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in their vote

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 10:39:30 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

No, I don't. But I expect the same from whites and blacks alike. Somehow others don't.

Then why don't you rant and rave against all those white voters who won't vote for a black candidate simply because of his skin colour?

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 10:43:03 AM

MissSepphora1

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As I said, 20% of white voters in WV is not ALL THOSE!

Now, why don't you rant and rave about the 95% of blacks in NC who voted for Obama??

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

No, I don't. But I expect the same from whites and blacks alike. Somehow others don't.

Then why don't you rant and rave against all those white voters who won't vote for a black candidate simply because of his skin colour?

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 10:46:57 AM

MissSepphora1

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Actually it was not even 20% of all white voters in WV, it was 20% of white Democrat voters in WV.

Because Republicans couldn't vote for Clinton or Obama.

And what happened to the Rodham in her name when she started campaigning for President? Somehow that disappeared. Hmmmm...

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 10:50:28 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

The whole idea that black voters shouldn't vote for Obama on the basis of his skin shade rests on the notion that the voters in question have to be somehow more 'deserving' than their white counterpart. It's as if the white whiners expect the black electorate to show a higher level of ethics when they vote, which is, of course, absurd.

Edited because.

The only thing absurd is whatever point you are trying to make here, which, frankly, I don't have a clue. As far as I can tell, you are saying it is OK for blacks to vote for Obama on the basis of race because some whites are racists. What wonderful logic! Very progressive thinking!

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RE: Many white Dem's in WV say race was a factor in the... - 5/14/2008 10:53:18 AM

BOUNTYHUNTER

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I expect we shall hear the last of obama after the general election.Hillery will be waiting building herself another WAR chest and will leave Bill behind to keep house next time,he was one of the reason she is losing,he has made many major mistakes on the campaign trail..As a white voter in WV I vote for Hillery I didn't like the way Obama sort of wrote off WV...He is an elitist so beware lower and middle class..bounty

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 11:55:21 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Saying " I wont vote for candidate X because he is black " is racist. Try and spin that all you like, but it wont wash.

Actually while I think that racism will play a major issue in the south and rural areas of the country... As I think about it I have to say that in light of present circumstances I would not vote for a female or Jewish candidate either for reasons of legitimacy rather than racism. Thats not to say I am a mysoginist or an antisemite - my first wife was both female and Jewish but we are at war with various radical islamic factions and we are poised on the brink with serveral other radical islamic factions. The cultures of our enemies dont take women very seriously, and the Jewish thing goes without saying....

Consider for a moment the Iranian reaction to a Hillary / Lieberman administration? A Jewish president or vice president would be immediately labled a puppet of Isreal blah blah blah and I dont think a female would be taken very seriously even if she was President of the United States and had the clout of the US Military behind her. I mean I could just see that idiot in Iran spewing how "the Great satan thinks a woman can tell us we cannot have nuclear weapons. The wrath of allah on this country ruled by women" blah blah blah....

By comparison they know McCain is a Naval Aviator and while they may not like him - they know that he is a stone cold killer who will gladly slaughter them by the thousands, then come back to the ship and laugh and sing songs about the nights carnage with his buddies over breakfast. McCain carries an aura of "how big are your balls, just try me" whereas I think they would defy Hillary simply to prove they wont back down from a female....

I've kind of chuckled over your McCain hero worship in the past but you have some serious issues. Is that what we want in a President? A "stone cold killer"? Jesus!!!!!!!!!! Tell the doc to up your meds.

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 12:01:49 PM

RealityLicks

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

I have a problem with people who say it's okay for blacks to vote for a black person simply because they are black, but it's not okay for a white person to vote against a person simply because they are black.

You can't have it both ways. I believe there is such thing as reverse discrimination, and political correctness is feeding it.

I thought the choice was between parties, not races. I'd expect all traditional Democrat voters and those who want Bush out to vote for Obama if he were the candidate, not to withhold their votes simply because he is black.

If black Republican voters swung to Obama because of his race, that might be judged a reaction to a history of oppressing minority groups in America but hardly equal to it. You can't equate one election with centuries of inequal opportunity - especially if the day after the election you resume ignoring those long-term structural inequalities.

Your position seems to be based on the idea that endemic white majority antipathy toward the black candidate's race is justified. I'd suggest that those who swing to Obama are either seeking to overturn the notion that black people are less well-suited to govern or else uninterested in race issues and simply prefer him as a politician and a personality.

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 12:15:07 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Him talking about his heritage and the choices he made growing up does not in any way approximate "the race card."

On the other hand, Obama's opponents who mine his black past and black associations to scare "white voters" or to impute Obama with an ethnic agenda --- are playing "the race card." (Guilt by association.)

Obama doesn't talk about his past to gain an advantage or to put whites on the defensive, he talks about it to reveal who he is. Naturally the revelation is going to be, "I'm a black man."

The question is, can white voters realize he's a black man and still vote for him? WV suggests that uneducated whites can't.

Your response is a swing and a miss here, because you have evinced no fundamental understanding of what the "race card" is.

Obama is not running as a "black" candidate or with a "black agenda" or with an anti-white bias --- he's running as a black man. This simple immutable fact is why he lost in WV, that and the fact that Clinton has played the race card against him (Reverend Wright). The opponents of Lincoln, when he ran for President used a similar tactic to spook voters, claiming that Lincoln "supported" John Brown.

To begin with, he's not really a "black man", is he? He's as much white as he is black. The point being that I don't need to know anything about his racial or ethnic heritage. What do we know about John McCain or Hilary Clinton? They are obviously white but are they Irish, Polish, Hungarian, French? More to the point, who cares? If anyone has introduced race into this campaign it has been Obama.

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 12:18:47 PM

bestbabync

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chickpea, please do not compare Hillary Clinton to Benazir Bhutto. there is absolutely no comparison!

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 12:23:01 PM

DomAviator

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I've kind of chuckled over your McCain hero worship in the past but you have some serious issues. Is that what we want in a President? A "stone cold killer"? Jesus!!!!!!!!!! Tell the doc to up your meds.

Yes, thats exactly what I want. The president is the CINC of the armed forces. The armed forces exist to project american foreign policy through the application of lethal force. In other words, to kill people and break shit. This provides a deterrent to those who would do us harm, it gives them a moment of pause.

For example in the clinton years the world trade center was bombed. The parties responsible were given court appointed lawyers and a criminal trial. A United States warship was attacked - we did nothing. Two embassies were leveled by bombs- we provided a warning to evacuate and then fired some cruise missles at an empty camp. Our men were being slaughtered in somalia - we told them to try to make it through the night and that the pakistanis would come in the morning with armored personell carriers to evacuate them... NOT EXACTLY A FEARSOME RESPONSE.

See that kind of thing makes people say Awwww, its ok we can fuck with them all we want. They are gentle and wont fight back,,,

McCain is a stone cold killer. Hes a naval aviator. He realizes that there is no problem of world affairs too complicated to be solved by the skillful dleivery of ordnance on target. People like the leader of Iran know that he has sung cadences like "napalm sticks to kids" and had a squadron hymnal with little ditties like "Silver Bombs" (Think the christmas carol silver bells with lyrics like "moms are crying, kids are dying, its christmas time over baghdad") that they sang in the spirit of gallows humor. Don't think Im right - look at McCains "Bomb Iran" version of the beach boys song.... When someone like that need only pick up the phone and say "I want an Alpha Strike" or worse yet "Set Condition 1 SQ for strategic launch" then out enemies say HMMMMMM, maybe I want to live to see tommorrow. Maybe this isnt such a hot idea they can really kick our asses and that SOB will do it"...

So yes, thats someone I want as President.... Theres no point carrying a big stick if they know you wont bash their skulls in with it. They had clinton figured out, they underestimated bush but learned quickly, there is no doubt about McCain. He WILL protect this country. Thats what he went to college for, and that was his first career...

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 12:34:06 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

To begin with, he's not really a "black man", is he? He's as much white as he is black. The point being that I don't need to know anything about his racial or ethnic heritage. What do we know about John McCain or Hilary Clinton? They are obviously white but are they Irish, Polish, Hungarian, French? More to the point, who cares? If anyone has introduced race into this campaign it has been Obama.

That last comment has already been debunked.
The only way Obama 'introduced' race was by being black, and his race was seized upon by the media, by racists, and by his opponents before he ever brought it up.
Claiming that his responding to their innuendo and leading questions was 'playing the race card' is a particularly dishonest tactic, so what agenda are you promoting by using it?

And the first comment is based on a blatant untruth as well, there is no such thing as 'partly white' in this society.
So again, what agenda are you pushing when you set yourself up as the judge of which minorities are 'really' black enough?

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 2:27:08 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

No, I don't. But I expect the same from whites and blacks alike. Somehow others don't.

Then why don't you rant and rave against all those white voters who won't vote for a black candidate simply because of his skin colour?

KittinSol, we haven't had a "Fat Thread" in a while, why don't you start one and I'll take a turn being the "bad guy."

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 3:21:38 PM

lronitulstahp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

And how many black voters vote for Obama just because he is black?

Scandalous! How come they have the right to vote in the first place ? And that's how they thank you!

Regardless of the sarcastic response, it's a legitimate question. He has received 90+% of black votes throughout the country.

you do realize that traditionally it is expected that Blacks vote Liberal/ Democrat, right? And were you watching earlier in the race? Hilary had a larger black following, but she and her husband made alot of let's say, "unfortuante" remarks...i think that lost her a lot of black votes. It's like when somehow Rev. Wright's bullshit made people accuse a half white guy of hating white people... (Sometimes these threads make my head hurt)
All this political stuff is just proof i need my ass spanked...my focus is damned near shot!

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 4:08:33 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
That 'implication' isn't unavoidable to an open mind

Horseshit.

Guess you can't stop being silly.

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 4:38:46 PM

Alumbrado

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Thanks for showing that once again you have no rational response and that you have to resort to name calling when asked to back up your assertions with facts.

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 4:51:57 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Thanks for showing that once again you have no rational response and that you have to resort to name calling when asked to back up your assertions with facts.

Alumbrado, I'm still waiting to hear which police agency you worked for where you were involved, "in more than 200 arrests."
I told you which agency I worked for. (U.S.Coast Guard) but your answer hasn't been forthcomming.

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 5:04:14 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Thanks for showing that once again you have no rational response and that you have to resort to name calling when asked to back up your assertions with facts.

I provided a superabundance of fact. Granted, the facts are not to your liking. Such is life. Get used to it.

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 5:21:21 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

Alumbrado, I'm still waiting to hear which police agency you worked for where you were involved, "in more than 200 arrests."
I told you which agency I worked for. (U.S.Coast Guard) but your answer hasn't been forthcomming.

Since I'm not the one busted as making those phony claims, nice try at misdirection and argumentum ad hominem.
The point is that you were the one making the phony claim to have been a federal agent and sworn LEO and trying to impress the gullible with statements about hundreds of arrests, which were easily debunked when it turned out you thought the job classification number for federal law enforcement was a paygrade, and that a conviction rate was the total number of arrests.

Your claims were easily seen through no matter what my background is, because I was relying on facts, and you were fabricating.
Your new trick of attacking the messenger by taking your quotes and pretending I said them is just sad.

...BTW how's your 'old Navy buddy' that founded Telecheck check doing these days? (And before you dig yourself in any deeper, you wrote Telecheck, because that is in fact the name of the company... another 'Nice try' on the 'buuubuuubuuu I meant Telechek'... no such a thing.)
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2002/Sep/19/ln/ln36a.html

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 5/14/2008 5:26:13 PM >

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 5:24:35 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Thanks for showing that once again you have no rational response and that you have to resort to name calling when asked to back up your assertions with facts.

I provided a superabundance of fact. Granted, the facts are not to your liking. Such is life. Get used to it.

Citing his biography where he mentions the race of his parents as support for the claim that Obama played the race card before anyone else so much as mentioned his race might be to your liking....but you are dreaming if you think it won't get ridiculed around here.

But do answer the question that RML hasn't...exactly what agenda are you serving by promoting such transparent fabrications?

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 5/14/2008 5:28:23 PM >

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RE: Many white Dems in WV say race was a factor in thei... - 5/14/2008 6:22:31 PM

celticlord2112

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I have no agenda, other than to point out that Barack Obama is an overhyped, overwrought, overblown buffoon, a political flyspec who is unqualified to hold elected office and who would best serve this country by going back to Chicago and staying there.

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