Termyn8or
Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Is this about humans or animals ? Or both ?
Animals like to touch, humans like to touch. In fact animals like to touch humans, and vice versa. Under those conditions, procreation is not the goal at all.
From my viewpoint, I can see how a Woman can be attracted to another Woman, but I can't fathom a Man attracted to another Man. But I am not the whole world. Others are different and I do not project myself on them like alot of people do. Just goes to prove that we ARE NOT all the same under the skin. Skin is just a convenient mask so we know who we are talking to etc.
We are dying as a species, but very slowly. We are dying from poisons in our environment, as well as an unfit food supply. Some respond to this by trying to improve their intake. Each may or may not lose the inate desire to procreate. And I don't think it pays to kid ourselves, you become a homosexual you don't really have the desire to procreate. Hell I am straight and I have no desire to. Actually I do, but I know I am too old. But even years ago I said "This planet isn't good enough for any kid of mine". Where did such a thought come from ? Such an attitude actually.
Try not to take this as a superiority complex, it is just my opinion and how I have chosen to live my life. If I had decided to go for the one, I would move us very far away from the big city, perhaps to another country, but where ? And then where is my earning power ?
Well maybe I am different than some because I take responsibilities seriously. Where is the religion teaching people to do that ? The same religions that condemn homosexualtiy not only will not help you take care of your kids, the want donations. Well I guess your kid has to go hungry so you can tithe.
Every damn time I gain a bit more understanding I wind up with more questions. Why does the Pope need your money ? The Vatican could just live off the interest, and if not they could sell a few hundred pounds of gold. And how many kids did they adopt ?
So I hear that Onan pissed God off for jacking off. Well Onan had a Wife, perhaps he should have been in there taking care of her. So that is taken to mean that having an orgasm without attempting to procreate is a sin. Bullshit.
And even if it wasn't bullshit, when was this tenet adopted ? Back when the world's population was what ? Back when the land was fertile and there was not much overcrowding, and while there was disease, with less compaction of the population there were less epidemics than there could have been. That was kinda important because they didn't have much in the way of cures. People died of things that are now cured with a shot in the arm. So it was wrong even then.
But the epitome of this nonsense is embodied in the Islamic faith. If you think the Christians are bad, take a look at them. But religions share one common thing, the dogma will persist no matter what happens in society.
And if I am not mistaken, the Bible says "Man shall not lay with Man" but it says nothing about Women. What does that tell us ? Then they get up to the pulpit and preach against homosexuality, with no regard to societal conditions, but in the case of Catholic priests, keep your young sons away from them. They are so full of double standards that I doubt they could read a measuring tape, and if they could they would fuck it up.
Humans embue sex acts with some sort of..........I can't find the word. Religion caused most of this bullshit. I got this buddy, had two border collies. He's somewhat a Mormon, something I am not really fond of but that is the way he is. He drinks and smokes but part of the dogme stuck with him, he would not have the bitches fixed. When they went into heat he would keep them segregated from other animals. He said that he could satisfy them with his finger. At first this grossed me out, but thinking about it, why ?
Of course that is not the issue, if he didn't want puppies, why not have them fixed ? Sometimes the lack of logic confounds me. Actually hearing about this was one of my lessons in tolerance. He is not asking me to use my finger.
So we have religions that proclaim any sexual gratification that is not for procreation is bad. And then they say indiscriminate sex is bad, you need to get married, have the blessing of the church. I see this as a power play pure and simple. A matter of control.
But we do need to control ourselves. There are way too many people. And there are way too many people having kids that they cannot afford to take care of. So who is right ?
Maybe animals got it right. Sometimes they eat their young. I also heard that Eskimos, if their firstborn was a female they put the baby outside to freeze to death. In some early Asian cultures it was perfectly legal for a Man to kill his entire family. Didn't have to give a reason.
So contraception is bad, and having a bunch of kids, living in fucking poverty with little chance of success in life is good ? Give me a break.
But this is yet another can of worms. I know someone who sired two of his own grandchildren. There is a big stigma associated with this. In fact I keep a certain distance. So let's get down to incest. We know scientifically that incest breeds alot more defective offspring. It's a genetic thing. But by their own book, it must have happened. If indeed at one time there were only two people on the planet, if incest hadn't occurred there would be no people today.
But they conveniently got their story straight, someone went off to the land of Nod to get a Wife. Well if there was a place with other people in it that means that they were not the first people on Earth. Which time were they lying ?
Logic lays waste to any and all forms of decency in a way. But not the really for real. People used to get married at 13, but that is highly frowned upon now. And a guy getting a 13 yo girl who is more than say five years older is viewed as a criminal.
Animals that get raped simply go on about their business, but Women, and even Men who get raped need months or years of counselling. What gives ? Are we that weak, that inferior ?
Incest is criminal, but what do you do if there are no other people ? When we can look ourselves in the face and answer these questions, then we have grown. We have to explore the exact nature of why we think we are better than animals. In that lies the key.
Thing is you look at some people on this planet and all you can do is think they are animals. So how do we deal with that ? Morally as well. We have to shed or reevaluate most of our beliefs if we are to make any true progress. We have to look at ourselves in ways we have never done before. I have had a glimpse, but not much. This is probably because my mind was not polluted with religion. But I am nowhere near close to "being there".
I have found CMers to be among the most open minded people I have run across anywhere, yet I am the most radical thinker here, by far. You know it and I know it. I don't advocate wrong things, rape, incest and such. But they exist and it is humans who do it. Technically when animals do it we just consider it normal. If you breed dogs for example, you put them together and hopefully it happens.
The male is most likely a typical male :-) but did the female want him ? Do you know ? Sex without consent is an attack, but why does that not hold true for animals ? We need to explore exactly why. Not every person here is religious, and only religious zealots would proclaim that one can't be moral without religion. There is something else, something that has yet to be defined, what seperates us from the animals.
Not being a vegetable or mineral I would have to admit to being an animal, but not in that sense. But because I am secure that I have an intellect, if someone called me an animal I would shrug it off. If someone called me a fag I would laugh. Now if someone called Hunky a fag he should probably say "Flaming, wanna see ?". I would. That's the best way not to take shit from people.
However if you call a straight guy a fag, some of them will hurt you. If you call some people an animal you might have to deal with indignance on a large scale.
But let's put it this way, if you call someone a thief who has never stolen anything in their life they'll just look at you funny. If they have stolen, not gotten caught, and have chosen not to steal anymore but are tempted, you get a quite different reaction. Most likely indignance.
If someone was pissed at me and said "And you can't even get off on normal sex", well that would be true. Oh it might be nice for it to last a while, but really I want mine too. How would I respond ? "That's why I am not at the bar right now".
I really did not want to be this long and get into all this right now, but I did. But I submit this : The OP did not post this to talk about animals, they posted it to talk about humans. Who the hell wants to talk about dolphins for weeks on end ?
So get your grains of salt out everybody. If some tell me I am full of shit, I'll be here. And I got some real salt. If anyone would like I'll send you some, that way when you 'take it with a grain of salt' you know you got the real McCoy. I got two varieties that are made for human consumption, and one that is intended as a bath salt. It's edible but lacks the finer qualities of the "organic" types. I am serious though, gimme an address to send it to on the other side and I'll make up envelopes of it. Then you can literally take what I say with a grain of salt.
Oh and animals ? I just remembered something. My buddy C had this dog named Tech. Half German shepherd and half wolf. This was the best dog I have ever known and the stories about him could fill a book. Maybe one day I will do that. But one day we are out on his porch, Tech never had a leash. This other dog goes walking by and Tech mounts ------ HIM. C said something like "That's a boy dog you stupid motherfucker". They did it right in the yard and I mean the front yard. We laughed our asses of and I spilt my beer. But it was worth it.
T
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RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 
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