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RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:05:05 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Again, show me proof that there is a gay gene, and I'll believe it hands down and never argue the point again.
But then there are a whole lot of other sexual deviations that need to be explained as well.
And are you equating being left handed to being D/s?
If

...you wont find a purely gay gene. Neither will you find a purely left handed gene, for roughly the same reason. The percentage of left handers in the population remains around the 17% mark. All research points to left handedness to being genetic, but that 17% is a problem. Because any single gene expression can't stay at 17%, it either breeds in or breeds out. So, back to the book i linked to earlier. The author suggests that we have a randomiser gene, for want of a better word. A gene that goes to all the other expressions and gives them a chance to try again. Sometimes the expression stays the same, now and then it changes. A gene pool requires variety for obvious reasons, one less obvious reason is that as environments change then so does the usefulness of adaptations. The randomiser adds a wild card element to the gene pool.
Back to non-usual sexual practises. It is entirely possible that a number of things are linked to the randomiser thing. Some benign, some malign. Pure classic paedophilia for instance may well be an unwanted product of the randomiser gene along with left handedness and, for all i know, the desire to watch NASCAR.
i suggest you read the book, it's very well written. It may give you a whole new persepctive on the way genetics work and may prevent you from disregarding research that doesn't chime with your view of the world.

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 41

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:09:35 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

If you are, then explain why my grandmother who was born left handed was trained to use her right hand and did so until she died.
Does that mean we can train gay people to be straight?

......sighs.....
......conductive education can reprogram motor muscles. Ask anyone who's ever had a stroke or worked with a patient with cerebral palsy.
As to training gay people to be straight, behavioural psychologists used aversion therapy during the 50's in the US to achieve such a thing. The results were highly disappointing....assuming you feel that homosexuality is wrong.
Many people of a certain age were prevented at school from using their left hand for writing. We will never know if their handwriting would have been better if they'd been allowed to use their left hand.

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 42

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:14:58 AM

MissSepphora1

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Well you can use a "randomiser" gene if that makes you feel better.
But I still believe that most sexual deviations and psychological behavior are learned. A great deal of pedophiles were molested themselves. They cannot get past the learned behavior. Perhaps you should read up on that.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 43

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:20:25 AM

ostrichman1951

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I believe the so-called 'homosexuality in nature' has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation, and everything to do with heirarchy and domination only.

Pure homosexuality breeds itself into extinction.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 44

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:20:31 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Well you can use a "randomiser" gene if that makes you feel better.
But I still believe that most sexual deviations and psychological behavior are learned. A great deal of pedophiles were molested themselves. They cannot get past the learned behavior. Perhaps you should read up on that.

...i have read up on that. i have worked in the field, enough to know that we have a large variation of behaviours which strongly suggests a wide variety of aetiologies. Have you?
Now, how about, instead of bringing up specious arguments you address the 17% of left handers staying constant in the population? Come up with a cogent reason for that and i'll back off the randomiser. Until then i shall simply characterise you as one of those who will ignore information that doesn't support their already entrenched world view.

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 45

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:23:22 AM

MissSepphora1

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Explain why most molestors were molested themselves by your randomiser gene.

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Post #: 46

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:23:26 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ostrichman1951

I believe the so-called 'homosexuality in nature' has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation, and everything to do with heirarchy and domination only.

Pure homosexuality breeds itself into extinction.

(my italics)

...this is true, so if homosexuality does have a genetic base then it isn't a simple one. Not all aspects of genetics are straight forward. The percentage of left handers in the population point at complex genetic causes of exressions.

(in reply to ostrichman1951)

Post #: 47

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:28:41 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Explain why most molestors were molested themselves by your randomiser gene.

...i'm sorry, but i think you're just being combative and bigoted. i've given you a nice clear example of complex genetic causes of expressions. i've made the point that not all paedophiles are so because of genetics (did the phrase 'wide variety of aetiologies' throw you?). i've given you links to well written books on the subject.
And all you can do is bang on about absurdities.

Your homophobia is a sickness. Get well soon.
Oh, and if you ever see the person who taught you either biology or logic on the street then ask for your money back.

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 48

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:31:25 AM

MissSepphora1

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Okay, obviously you can't explain that away, because it is of course a learned behavior. Sorry that it conflicts with your theory and all, but it's true.

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Explain why most molestors were molested themselves by your randomiser gene.

...i'm sorry, but i think you're just being combative and bigoted. i've given you a nice clear example of complex genetic causes of expressions. i've made the point that not all paedophiles are so because of genetics (did the phrase 'wide variety of aetiologies' throw you?). i've given you links to well written books on the subject.
And all you can do is bang on about absurdities.

Your homophobia is a sickness. Get well soon.
Oh, and if you ever see the person who taught you either biology or logic on the street then ask for your money back.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 49

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:34:08 AM

MissSepphora1

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Oh, and show me one time where I said homosexuality was bad, or sinful, or against God. I didn't? Then how can you possibly say I'm homophobic?
I just don't believe that it is genetic. And until it can be explained genetically, I will continue to believe that. So sue me.

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 50

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:37:50 AM

MissSepphora1

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So if not all pedophiles are that way because of genetics, does that also mean that not all gays are that way because of genetics? Or not all straights are that way because of genetics?

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Explain why most molestors were molested themselves by your randomiser gene.

...i'm sorry, but i think you're just being combative and bigoted. i've given you a nice clear example of complex genetic causes of expressions. i've made the point that not all paedophiles are so because of genetics (did the phrase 'wide variety of aetiologies' throw you?). i've given you links to well written books on the subject.
And all you can do is bang on about absurdities.

Your homophobia is a sickness. Get well soon.
Oh, and if you ever see the person who taught you either biology or logic on the street then ask for your money back.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 51

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:38:30 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Okay, obviously you can't explain that away, because it is of course a learned behavior. Sorry that it conflicts with your theory and all, but it's true.

...i havent said that it can't be a learned behaviour. What i have said is that it isn't always a learned behaviour. Things are complex.
And you still haven't touched the fact that the population keeps its lefthanders at a steady 17%. Despite being called on it. i understand why though.....because it utterly conflicts with your world view.
i wish you luck, but hope that some event in your life gives you a more accurate view of the world in all its complex glory. Your homophobia isn't just a tragedy for others, it hurts you too even if you don't see it.

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 52

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 10:57:57 AM

GimpinDenial

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<fast reply>

Being a man that has sex with men, I was going to pipe in.....but after I read the responses....especially the ones that were downright spiteful.....I decided to change what I was originally going to say.. (because this thread has been hijacked from comparing homosexuality in animals versus humans, to strictly human homesexuality, even though the word homosexuality strictly refers to humans)

Was I born gay? I do not know.. I have had sex with women. I find women incredibly attractive.
However, I do not enjoy having intercourse with women.

From the very first time I saw a sexual act (in an adult magazine) I pictured being on the receiving end (where the woman was) and I have sought this out ever since.
Did I CHOOSE to be gay?
I do not know....
I chose to have sex with men, period.
I seek men who want to have sex with me, period.

Call me what ever you want.... and if you believe in GOD, and yet say that homosexuality is wrong... then why did he make me the way I am?

I am not bashing others opinions...honestly, simply stating mine.

I am what I am.

For that, I will never ask to be forgiven. If there is a hell, then I would rather go there for who I am,

then to some shangri-la paradise for being, behaving or believing in something I am not.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 53

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 11:16:07 AM

beargonewild

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Yes I believe homosexuality is a choice, just like I believe getting up every morning is a choice.
And when you say "we" as a whole being driven by our sexual urges, are you excusing rape? Perhaps the other person really did want it, deep down, and the rapist was just using their God given sexual prowess?
Or maybe you're excusing pedophiles? Because God gave them the urges to have sex with babies, so therefore they should be able to do whatever they want?
Maybe you're with NAMBLA in lowering the age of consent, because by God teenagers are going to do it anyway, so it might as well be with 50-60 year old men. And why don't we use the Mormon sect in Texas as proof of that?

I'm not equating homosexuality to pedophilia, because I believe that homosexuality can be between two consenting adults, and pedophilia can be between opposite sex as it most of the time is.

But there are urges we all get sexually that we control for various reasons.
I haven't had sex in 9 months, and you don't see me hanging out near strip clubs looking for the first available hard on.

I want to know what makes you believe that homosexuality is a learned behavior and not a genetic disposition or a combo of the two? How is it a male who is raised by a heterosexual couple, spends all his childhood until adulthood surrounded by heterosexual friends, is bombarded through television and radio about falling in love; getting married and raising kids still comes out of the closet as a gay man? One would think that from all these years of subconsciously being taught to believe in heterosexuality would imprint every single person yet it doesn't. Does this mean that the imprinting isn't effective because the approx 10% of us are psychologically defective because we didn't learn to be heterosexual? I think NOT!

Your statement implies that homosexuality is a behavior which is chosen thus indicates free will. I assure and everyone else that I did not choose to be a gay male. I did not choose to live a life where I face discrimination every single day with a risk to my personal safety, I did not choose to spend 25 years of my life questioning myself if I was good enough or was I worthwhile being a friend to anyone because I was gay. I did not choose to force myself to pretend I was "normal" and heterosexual because the peer pressure I endured dictated this. I did not choose to be gay and have to question if I was normal and struggle with this to the point of feeling suicidal in my late teens and early twenties. Plain and simple, I was born and happened to be gay, if I was predisposed to be a homosexual that is fine as all I had to damn well endure growing up made me who I am today and I will not regret who and what I am.

edited to add: Yes I did try to learn to be heterosexual and it left me being confused, deceitful, untrustworthy, distrustful, cold hearted and a pretender.

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 5/21/2008 11:22:46 AM >

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Post #: 54

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 11:20:08 AM

MissSepphora1

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Doesn't that mean your behavior was learned? If what you had to endure made you what you are? I'm just saying...

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Post #: 55

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 11:23:37 AM

GimpinDenial

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Cheers Bear....

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Post #: 56

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 11:23:54 AM

beargonewild

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No that is not what I am saying.

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Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

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Post #: 57

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 11:23:59 AM

faerytattoodgirl

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quote:

I assure and everyone else that I did not choose to be a gay male.

just as i did not choose to be a lesbian. nor did i choose to live half my life as male. in fact that part was forced on me at the hands of a surgeon at birth taking away my female parts as i was born intersexed without knowledge or consent to me or my parents.

you can not change a person. just as a person can not suddenly one day decide that they are this or that they are that. you are who you are because it is how you were born. genetics or not. you cant change the REAL YOU.

the real you will eventually come out. most people dont have a clue who they are or what the want in life. i certainly know who i am, i know who and what i like. nobody told me to be this way. nothing can stop who you are.

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Post #: 58

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 11:32:28 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Doesn't that mean your behavior was learned? If what you had to endure made you what you are? I'm just saying...

......i wish you'd actually read what people are typing as opposed to just looking for quotes to support your worldview. Bear spoke of being surrounded by a heterosexual environment for years and years, during the most formative years of a life.....and still you think, somehow, he was suggesting that being gay is a learned behaviour.....earlier i suggested you ask for your money back from those who taught you biology and logic, i think you need to add the person who taught you basic comprehension to the list.

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 59

RE: Scientists claim homosexuality common in nature - 5/21/2008 11:33:48 AM

MissSepphora1

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I didn't choose to be attracted to men with curly hair and brown eyes and brown skin, and yet, I am. I have had sex with many men who didn't have brown hair and brown eyes and curly hair, but I enjoyed this body type more.
Am I predisposed to be attracted to that type of person? Is it genetic?

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

Post #: 60

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