RE: A useful sub?

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Leatherist -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 1:01:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist Do you think a sub should be willing to work? I think a sub should be willing to do whatever he or she agreed to do when entering into a relationship with a dominant. I think that goes for the dominant, as well. Ideally, yes. Unless they decide to modify the agreement. But if unilaterally, it may cause resentment and a break.

TreasureKY -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 1:25:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist ... But if unilaterally, it may cause resentment and a break. This is true, but then what you're really talking about are submissives who don't stick to their agreements... not ones who aren't willing to be useful. There is a vast difference between the "parasites" and "freeloaders" that you began complaining about and those who cannot abide by their agreements. It would seem that the woman you spoke of that couldn't hold a job was indeed willing... she was just incapable of keeping her word.

chickpea -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 2:08:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist You still aren't getting it. i get that it's normal to contribute your share, like if you're a guest at someone's place you should clean up after yourself. or if you're a slave, you do as you're told. but i don't see the point of this thread? do you want everyone to scream bloody, lazy, whore at those that don't? or like to make sure that they understand that they're supposed to do stuff and not just lie around and say fuck me fuck me, while not doing anything else? some slaves just do what they're told, but don't do anything unless they're told to do something. do they just not do anything, eventhough you tell them to do something? and then you keep telling them to do something and then they dont. and then you kick them out, and then they cry? and then ya get another slave or sub or whatever, and then the same thing happens? umm yea, what's the point?

Usako -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 2:09:12 PM)
I don't like cleaning my own place so I certainly am not gonna clean some man's house. I'd much rather get a job and hire someone else to do it. Either way it gets done, just that way my hands stay clean. But I don't see how someone can get into a relationship and move in and not expect to work. It's either housework or job; gotta put in something.

MmeGigs -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 2:38:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist Someone suggested having a submissive be useful was "abusive" to some schools of thought. I'm usually pretty open to other schools of thought, but I think that this is a misuse of the word "abusive". Using a sub for free maid service may be an unethical thing to do, but it's not abusive. I'm not being abused if my partner's expectations don't square with my desires. If we slap the lable "abuse" on anything that isn't sunshine and lollipops, what are we going to call it when people are truly being abused? quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist Personally,if someone is living under my roof, I expect them to do thier share-it's not as if I do not do the same. Do you think a sub should be willing to work? I don't do my share of the work. I expect the lovely and talented Al to do all of it, and he does. I try to pick up after myself. I take care of the cooking because I like the way I cook, the garden because it's a hobby I enjoy, the finances because I want to and the cat box because it's my cat. Other than that, anything I do around the house falls under the category of "helping him out", and usually only happens when he's been working lots of overtime or he's sick or we're having a party, or on those exceedingly rare occasions when I feel like cleaning. Fortunately for my Al, I'm not picky about how things are done. As long as it's not me doing it, I'm happy. When I was dating before I met the hubby, I came across quite a few fellows for whom housework was a hard limit. It made perfect sense to me that a fellow I was dating wouldn't be willing to do my housework, and I never asked them to. When I was a sweet young thing a lot of fellows expected the girls they were dating to clean for them. That was a hard limit for me, so I know just where these guys are coming from. However, I'll admit that it boggled me that so many fellows who were interested in a long-term live-in d/s relationship were shocked at the idea that they'd be expected to do dishes, laundry, vacuuming, etc. - at least half of the housework. Yeah, they're sucky, no-fun things to do. That's exactly why I don't want to do them. If I'm the dom, why should I be the one doing most of the housework??

Leatherist -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 2:47:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist ... But if unilaterally, it may cause resentment and a break. This is true, but then what you're really talking about are submissives who don't stick to their agreements... not ones who aren't willing to be useful. There is a vast difference between the "parasites" and "freeloaders" that you began complaining about and those who cannot abide by their agreements. It would seem that the woman you spoke of that couldn't hold a job was indeed willing... she was just incapable of keeping her word. She wasn't really willing, she just wanted to get a foot in the door. (We call that a "bait and switch") Took her a month to find a job,and then she did it half ass to begin, and then got fired for non attendance. Then started copping an attitude when I asked her to help me in a small craft business I was doing-or to at least help around the house. It finally stopped being worth it.

Leatherist -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 2:49:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist You still aren't getting it. i get that it's normal to contribute your share, like if you're a guest at someone's place you should clean up after yourself. or if you're a slave, you do as you're told. but i don't see the point of this thread? do you want everyone to scream bloody, lazy, whore at those that don't? or like to make sure that they understand that they're supposed to do stuff and not just lie around and say fuck me fuck me, while not doing anything else? some slaves just do what they're told, but don't do anything unless they're told to do something. do they just not do anything, eventhough you tell them to do something? and then you keep telling them to do something and then they dont. and then you kick them out, and then they cry? and then ya get another slave or sub or whatever, and then the same thing happens? umm yea, what's the point? It never repeated, that's the assumption you are not getting. And the ONE that I had an issue with knew what the deal was,she just thought I'd put up with her bs and not keeping her word-she was wrong.

Leatherist -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 2:51:39 PM)
The work thing seems a very common expectation of male subs-but not always of females. I wonder at the double standard.

Mercnbeth -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 3:15:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist The work thing seems a very common expectation of male subs-but not always of females. I wonder at the double standard. Perhaps its your perspective or gender prejudice. Personally, my slave wouldn't be serving me if she had outside employment. Believe me, finding a woman who that was willing to commit to my preference in that regard was not as easy as you would think. Especially when I tolerate laziness less than I tolerate having my slave serve any other Master such as work. Managing my home and pleasing me is not the easy task that beth makes it out to be and is 'work' enough! The need for more money coming into the household was not worth the loss of access. Also, I believe its more important to eliminate as many reasons as possible for my slave to not fulfill my expectations. The most important expectation is to be ready to serve me; whether in the capacity as slave, travel companion, or something as mundane as a travel companion allowing me to drive in the commuter lanes for a business appointment.

Leatherist -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 3:22:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist The work thing seems a very common expectation of male subs-but not always of females. I wonder at the double standard. Perhaps its your perspective or gender prejudice. Personally, my slave wouldn't be serving me if she had outside employment. Believe me, finding a woman who that was willing to commit to my preference in that regard was not as easy as you would think. Especially when I tolerate laziness less than I tolerate having my slave serve any other Master such as work. Managing my home and pleasing me is not the easy task that beth makes it out to be and is 'work' enough! The need for more money coming into the household was not worth the loss of access. Also, I believe its more important to eliminate as many reasons as possible for my slave to not fulfill my expectations. The most important expectation is to be ready to serve me; whether in the capacity as slave, travel companion, or something as mundane as a travel companion allowing me to drive in the commuter lanes for a business appointment. Merc, you are getting hung up on semantics here. Work does not neccesarily mean a day job outside. I prefer someone I can have around that helps me to fullfill my potential by maximizing my useful time-rather than having to do everything myself. Division of labor, and using team skills to thier best potetenial is what it's all about.

ownedgirlie -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 3:25:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Personally, my slave wouldn't be serving me if she had outside employment. Believe me, finding a woman who that was willing to commit to my preference in that regard was not as easy as you would think. Call me crazy (it wouldn't be the first time), but this really surprises me every time you say it. Even with the stipulation of managing the home and pleasing the Master. I believe you when you say it, but perhaps since I see that as an ideal situation, I become surprised. No matter, just my sidebar commentary...

Mercnbeth -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 3:27:55 PM)
Leather, Sorry, I based my comment on this, as well as your post preceding my prior reply. quote: She wasn't really willing, she just wanted to get a foot in the door. (We call that a "bait and switch") Took her a month to find a job,and then she did it half ass to begin, and then got fired for non attendance. Sorry if that they weren't the comments you wanted comment. However, I don't see our dynamic as a "division of labor"; its more accurate to assigning accountability expectations. However, without a live discussion I wouldn't disagree that it may be a matter of semantics. Edited to add: PS - I thought about it and maybe this clarifies the "division of labor" point. Unfortunately for now, I 'labor' managing my business; beth 'labors' managing my home under my direction. Sometimes that direction includes my cooking, my taking out the garbage, my putting a dish in the dishwasher, (sometimes even unloading), my getting myself a drink - or (Horrors!) me getting a drink for beth! When it comes to decisions, directions, I make them without division. quote: ownedgirlie: Call me crazy (it wouldn't be the first time), but this really surprises me every time you say it Okay - you're crazy! But what part surprises you?

Leatherist -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 3:32:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Leather, Sorry, I based my comment on this, as well as your post preceding my prior reply. quote: She wasn't really willing, she just wanted to get a foot in the door. (We call that a "bait and switch") Took her a month to find a job,and then she did it half ass to begin, and then got fired for non attendance. Sorry if that they weren't the comments you wanted comment. However, I don't see our dynamic as a "division of labor"; its more accurate to assigning accountability expectations. However, without a live discussion I wouldn't disagree that it may be a matter of semantics. No problem man. I did initially try to get her to help me at home-when that didn't work (she played passive agressive, and did crap work, ruining materials and wasting time-even after being shown how to do it PROPERLY)..having her get an outside job was the only alternative to dismissing her. I simply did not have the cash flow to support a loafer. I was merely using this scenario as BAD example of a relationship based on a work ethic-and why keeping up your end of things is important. No one gets far with an albatross round thier neck.

ownedgirlie -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 3:39:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ownedgirlie: Call me crazy (it wouldn't be the first time), but this really surprises me every time you say it Okay - you're crazy! Whew, I feel better now. [8D] quote: But what part surprises you? Honestly? That someone wouldn't want to stay at home and care for the Master and his house. It baffles me.

lronitulstahp -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 3:49:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ownedgirlie: Call me crazy (it wouldn't be the first time), but this really surprises me every time you say it Okay - you're crazy! Whew, I feel better now. [8D] quote: But what part surprises you? Honestly? That someone wouldn't want to stay at home and care for the Master and his house. It baffles me. og, perhaps i could shed some light on this using my own experience as an example: i have been approached by some D types that want a girl that stays home, but i have UM's, they are private schooled, and involved in several activities. How could i expect anyone else to pay tuition, piano lessons, soccer or basketball fees, and medical insurance...to provide what i provide for them? Pretty sure there others like myself. i think for some, it's not so cut and dry. It's not always what i don't want to do, but what i can't do.

AquaticSub -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 3:53:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Honestly? That someone wouldn't want to stay at home and care for the Master and his house. It baffles me. Some people don't like housework, aren't any good at taking care of a house, or want to continue to pursue other goals. I regard myself as fortunate that Valyraen understands, encourages, and even requires me to pursue other goals that will take me out of the house. I have found someone with whom I am compatible in this regard, though isn't better than any other type of relationship. Though I can't really say the desire to stay home and take care of the house baffles me, it isn't a desire that draws me as much as my desire to work in the arts. While the idea of staying home and taking care of his house seems romantic, I have a feeling I'd get bored. 'Sides, taking care of someone is serving them as they wish to be served. At this time, he'd rather be served with the extra income and a cleaning lady.

Leatherist -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 3:56:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Honestly? That someone wouldn't want to stay at home and care for the Master and his house. It baffles me. Some people don't like housework, aren't any good at taking care of a house or want to continue to pursue other goals. I regard myself as fortunate that Valyraen understands, encourages, and even requires me to pursue other goals that will take me out of the house. Though I can't really say the desire to stay home and take care of the house baffles me, it isn't a desire that draws me as much as my desire to work in the arts. While the idea of staying home and taking care of his house seems romantic, I have a feeling I'd get bored. 'Sides, taking care of someone is serving them as they wish to be served. At this time, he'd rather be served with the extra income and a cleaning lady. And that is a workable deal since the work is still getting done-and everyone's needs are being met. It's when people shirk that it becomes an issue.

PanthersMom -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 4:00:51 PM)
everyone in my household works, the boys, the hubby, i may be in the wheelchair, but i do what is physically possible for me. everyone is expected to learn the chores and chip in to maintain the home we live in. work outside the home is for income, work at home is to make living comfortable. everyone is expected to contribute regardless of their "position". PM

ownedgirlie -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 4:02:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp og, perhaps i could shed some light on this using my own experience as an example: i have been approached by some D types that want a girl that stays home, but i have UM's, they are private schooled, and involved in several activities. How could i expect anyone else to pay tuition, piano lessons, soccer or basketball fees, and medical insurance...to provide what i provide for them? Pretty sure there others like myself. i think for some, it's not so cut and dry. It's not always what i don't want to do, but what i can't do. Thanks tulip :) Coming from this as a kidless slave certainly changes my perspective. I appreciate yours, however, and maybe I was just being close-minded. Let me ask you this - - if someone wanted to marry you and support you and your youngsters (including their private schooling) and keep you home to manage the house, bills and care for him, would you?

ownedgirlie -> RE: A useful sub? (5/23/2008 4:09:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Honestly? That someone wouldn't want to stay at home and care for the Master and his house. It baffles me. Some people don't like housework, aren't any good at taking care of a house, or want to continue to pursue other goals. I regard myself as fortunate that Valyraen understands, encourages, and even requires me to pursue other goals that will take me out of the house. I have found someone with whom I am compatible in this regard, though isn't better than any other type of relationship. Though I can't really say the desire to stay home and take care of the house baffles me, it isn't a desire that draws me as much as my desire to work in the arts. While the idea of staying home and taking care of his house seems romantic, I have a feeling I'd get bored. 'Sides, taking care of someone is serving them as they wish to be served. At this time, he'd rather be served with the extra income and a cleaning lady. Well, my "baffling" is probably just me being close-minded and looking at it from my own perspective. I suppose it would also baffle me that a Master wouldn't want his slave to be happy and fulfilled, too. My comment wasn't intended in any way to be insulting of those who prefer to go to work, and I hope it wasn't taken as such. It's just from my own experiences - I don't particularly like housework either, but if it's for someone I love and adore, that changes things for me. As for getting bored not working, I've been fortunate enough to have gone nearly a year without working and found my life so much more fulfilled - serving him, traveling with him, working on my book, etc. Again, call me crazy but not living with the Man, I'd give anything to clean his toilets, do his laundry, cook his dinners, etc. And yes I know we're all different so I'm sorry about my "baffled" comment. I think about some of the things I would love and react to that, I suppose.

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