RE: Complete obedience = doormat?

RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (Full Version)

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chamberqueen -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 2:38:00 AM)
There is a difference in the way that subs/slaves question things. If my Master says "put on nipple clips for an hour", and I say that they are only considered safe for 20 minutes or can do irreparable damage to the nipple, He has the option. If I simply say "no, I don't want to", then that is quite another inference. I was acting as an intelligent and informed person - not as a brat.

MstrVik -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 3:30:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 An obedient slave asks intelligent questions, and thus renders superior service. A doormat asks no questions and thus renders inferior service. Very well put! - Couldn't have said it better myself! [:)]

gypsygrl -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 4:04:40 AM)
quote: OK, so sue me. I Love intelligent Doormats. They are kinda high tech and all. All I have to do is stand on them and they can automatically figure out if I need my feet cleaned or not. Also they let me know when they need to be serviced and cleaned off, and they let me know when their batteries are runnnig low and other neat things. They also let me know when I need a new pair of shoes. I tell you, it's the wave of the future man. Oh oh. I can see it. I can see it happening. Smartmats!

gypsygrl -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 4:58:43 AM)
I've appropriated the term 'doormat', like the LBGT community has appropriated the term 'queer' or many in the kink community have appropriated the word 'slut.' In standard usage, doormat's a derogatory term though there's enough truth in its connotative meaning that it captures something about my personality. In some ways, 'doormat' marks the demons I struggle with as an s-type. In other ways, the word reminds me of a character trait I have to be careful about. And, it points to the negative status the character traits and behaviors associated with being an s-type has within broader mainstream culture. I can be a bit of a doormat. When it comes to this stuff, its a strength and a weakness. Obedience comes naturally to me. Alot of times, it doesn't even dawn on me to question things. I like to find a good energy flow and go with it, rather than expend alot of time and resources resisting it. Over the years, I've tried to improve on my elemental doormatness and have worked to eliminate those things in my psyche that encourages knee-jerk reactions and resistances. Yeah, all this leaves me vulnerable to being taken advantage of but why should I let fear determine how I live my life and undermine the satisfaction I get in being me?

lronitulstahp -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 5:04:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist I agree with you and I love my doormat so much I just went and took a picture of it for you! quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp [sm=writing.gif]scribbles on x-mas gift list " for RS... new doormat" quote: Is personal delivery an option on that gift? How do You want it? me crawling to your doorstep, doormat in my teeth dressed like one of Santa's naughty helpers??? i have the outfit and the red heels...such things might be possible. i am very festive in December. Just give the neighbors a "heads up". Wait! You live in Daytona...par for the course... ------------------------- hijack over... i think doormat is a bit of finger pointing aimed at people who may have different, or more intense feelings about D/s or M/s relationships than someone else deems "acceptable". The dangerous thing about namecalling, (and for all intents and purposes, those that say they want, like, or are a doormat being a very small minority..for most, it is a form of namecalling) is that it's so easy for another to declare the namecaller's relationship ideal sick, twisted, or wrong as well. Just when you're done critisizing some "doormat" slavegirl....your Aunt Tillie unexpectedly pops up, finds your flogger hidden in the laundry hamper...and suddenly your mother, Aunt Edna, and Father O'Reilly are at your hoouse praying the rosary for your fallen soul...it's a slippery slope folks, playing the judgement game.

lanie38 -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 6:33:31 AM)
To me, a doormat is someone who deliberately pretends to be someone they're not in order to get a brush with intimacy. Blind as opposed to engaged mindful obedience.

CruelDesires -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 7:01:28 AM)
My beliefs about this topic. Your mileage may vary. The way I see it. The slave has power over him/herself to choose who he/she gives over control to. Once they enter that type of hardcore relationship, the only other choice they truly have will be to ask release. In this world of laws and consequences, human beings have the right to leave an abusive relationship as they see fit. But even then, that right can be questioned if the truly feel that deep a need to submit control to someone else and really submerse themselves into that depth of submission. he/she picks their Dominant carefully after fully accessing their intelligence and the ability for understanding his/her needs BEFORE he/she gives the Master power over them. The smarter slave picks wisely and makes sure that the One that he/she chooses is worthy of that control and will have his/her best interests in mind. Problems occur when they pick the wrong Master and he uses them for his own purposes, yet doesn't keep their safety and well being in mind. A lot of newcomers don't know enough information about the lifestyle and choose someone who is not worthy of being a Master to a small dog, let alone a human being. My solution to those slaves who are looking for a Absolute Power Exchange relationship? Find a Master who values their property and makes sure their toys and personal items are well taken care of by Him. Find a Master who will listen to their slave when they have recommendations about the upkeep of His property and personal belongings. Find an Intelligent Master who is not so wrapped up in his own ego so that he does not want to learn to be a better Person as he matures and gets wiser in the lifestyle. Find an Honorable Master who truly is worthy of that title. Good luck and I see only a select few out of all the ones who claim or wear the title that we all call Master. CD

kiwisub12 -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 7:03:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist I agree with you and I love my doormat so much I just went and took a picture of it for you! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All kidding aside, I think that the armed servicemen & women who are trained to follow orders would take offence to being called doormats. I think their superiors would feel insulted as well. I feel the same way about my obedient partners. They are an integral part of my life and I respect them as much or more than any patriot respects our citizens in the service. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -=Ode to My Doormat=- You know, I a freaking tired of the prejudice against doormats. I love my doormat and it performs a vital function in my house. It is decorative and pretty to look at. It says “welcome” to my guests and makes them feel I care about them by having one. It shows respect for my house by letting you wipe your feet on it if they are dirty. It even dries your feet when they are wet. My house and my porch just wouldn’t be the same without a good doormat! [sm=writing.gif]scribbles on x-mas gift list " for RS... new doormat" Is personal delivery an option on that gift? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [edit] Didn’t mean to hijack such a noble thread flirting with tulip so I ad this to the concept of how seemingly demeaning associations can be a misconception. I think a good submissive is best in leather, well broken in and should be nice and comfortable like a familiar ‘old shoe’. So ................ a good sub is more like a couch than a doormat????? (hehehe)

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 7:05:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lanie38 To me, a doormat is someone who deliberately pretends to be someone they're not in order to get a brush with intimacy. Blind as opposed to engaged mindful obedience. Those kind of relationships don't last for long either. I've actually encountered a few that you just described, and I loose interest way early on in the game. They appear to be way too desparate for intimacy.. to the point they don't care about anything else that goes down. Mentally, they don't seem to stimulate me enough to bother with. Actually, these kinds have bordered on stalking me at times. Kind of creepy too...

favesclava -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 7:11:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CruelDesires My beliefs about this topic. Your mileage may vary. The way I see it. The slave has power over him/herself to choose who he/she gives over control to. Once they enter that type of hardcore relationship, the only other choice they truly have will be to ask release. In this world of laws and consequences, human beings have the right to leave an abusive relationship as they see fit. But even then, that right can be questioned if the truly feel that deep a need to submit control to someone else and really submerse themselves into that depth of submission. he/she picks their Dominant carefully after fully accessing their intelligence and the ability for understanding his/her needs BEFORE he/she gives the Master power over them. The smarter slave picks wisely and makes sure that the One that he/she chooses is worthy of that control and will have his/her best interests in mind. Problems occur when they pick the wrong Master and he uses them for his own purposes, yet doesn't keep their safety and well being in mind. A lot of newcomers don't know enough information about the lifestyle and choose someone who is not worthy of being a Master to a small dog, let alone a human being. My solution to those slaves who are looking for a Absolute Power Exchange relationship? Find a Master who values their property and makes sure their toys and personal items are well taken care of by Him. Find a Master who will listen to their slave when they have recommendations about the upkeep of His property and personal belongings. Find an Intelligent Master who is not so wrapped up in his own ego so that he does not want to learn to be a better Person as he matures and gets wiser in the lifestyle. Find an Honorable Master who truly is worthy of that title. Good luck and I see only a select few out of all the ones who claim or wear the title that we all call Master. CD the last part describes my Master to a T. He cares for His property very well. We are expected to tell when anything bothers us. whether its a headache or jealousies. We have to do research on various topics and we are to have interest outside of the poly household. our own friends our own hobbies. we are to spend time with our familes since to Him nothing is more important than family. I'm very lucky to have met Him . i'm very lucky to belong to such a man.

KnightofMists -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 7:31:10 AM)
I tried using Alandra and Kyra as a doormat.... but found they where very poor doormats. I tried... but people would trip on them and the door would never open properly... sometimes they even got stuck on the door. Put them outside and they get all frozen up in the cold and was very ineffective to clean my boots on. I found other products to be a better doormat than these two. It was rather frustratring.... so.. I guess I will have to just live with the fact that they are not doormats

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 7:37:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CruelDesires My beliefs about this topic. Your mileage may vary. The way I see it. The slave has power over him/herself to choose who he/she gives over control to. Once they enter that type of hardcore relationship, the only other choice they truly have will be to ask release. In this world of laws and consequences, human beings have the right to leave an abusive relationship as they see fit. But even then, that right can be questioned if the truly feel that deep a need to submit control to someone else and really submerse themselves into that depth of submission. he/she picks their Dominant carefully after fully accessing their intelligence and the ability for understanding his/her needs BEFORE he/she gives the Master power over them. The smarter slave picks wisely and makes sure that the One that he/she chooses is worthy of that control and will have his/her best interests in mind. Problems occur when they pick the wrong Master and he uses them for his own purposes, yet doesn't keep their safety and well being in mind. A lot of newcomers don't know enough information about the lifestyle and choose someone who is not worthy of being a Master to a small dog, let alone a human being. My solution to those slaves who are looking for a Absolute Power Exchange relationship? Find a Master who values their property and makes sure their toys and personal items are well taken care of by Him. Find a Master who will listen to their slave when they have recommendations about the upkeep of His property and personal belongings. Find an Intelligent Master who is not so wrapped up in his own ego so that he does not want to learn to be a better Person as he matures and gets wiser in the lifestyle. Find an Honorable Master who truly is worthy of that title. Good luck and I see only a select few out of all the ones who claim or wear the title that we all call Master. CD Great post, you nailed this one dead on.

MadRabbit -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 7:44:38 AM)
When I use "doormat" in a negative connotation, I am not refering to someone in that kind of dynamic, but rather someone who doesn't establish some clear boundaries with me when we first meet. I agree with everything you have said in your posts, but in all honesty, I don't think I can say I strive for "complete obedience". There is scenarios where I expect them to disobey. They may trust me and know me well enough to know I won't ever put them in such a scenario, but still if it did happen for whatever reason, I would be pretty ticked if they went along with it without speaking up to me about it.

AmbrosialWench -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 7:59:58 AM)
I take no offense to being called a doormt. The few times I have been called one, I have asked how they see me in that light. The answer has been I don't have enought fight and kick. I need to argue back, in general they are looking for someone who will be a "brat" in a power exchange. They enjoy punishing/reprimanding and I just didn't give them that release they needed. They tell me this to try to change me and who I am. I tell them if that is what they need, then we are not a match. For by their definition, I am a doormat and will not change..... Well, perhaps if trained to do so, it could happen. For I am a doormat and I want to please.

Evility -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 8:02:15 AM)
To me the term 'doormat' has no real significance in bdsm. The only times I have seen it used are as a form of lashing out at someone else. A submissive who won't do this and won't do that calls another submissive who does not have the same limits a doormat... something like that. It's just a barb that has no real meaning since its deployment is so relative.

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 8:13:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit When I use "doormat" in a negative connotation, I am not refering to someone in that kind of dynamic, but rather someone who doesn't establish some clear boundaries with me when we first meet. I agree with everything you have said in your posts, but in all honesty, I don't think I can say I strive for "complete obedience". There is scenarios where I expect them to disobey. They may trust me and know me well enough to know I won't ever put them in such a scenario, but still if it did happen for whatever reason, I would be pretty ticked if they went along with it without speaking up to me about it. Speaking up and disobeying are not really one in the same. Yes, if one thinks or honestly believes I'm about to make a major mistake. I Damn well what then to speak up. What's that? I'm about to walk off a cliff? OK, will make me stop and look at what is going on. Now, that is a must have in my book. One of the general understood rules. Why, I find it's important to have somebody who's intelligent, has some common sense, and a mind. OK, call it a living blow up doll, with a mind. Geeeeshhh... Yes, fucktoys with a interactive computer chip inside! OK, enough smart ass objectfication remarks here. I would never intentionally give somebody as Order, to see if they Disobeyed me. With expection if I was fucking with their mind for the fun of it, to see their facial expression for a moment. Sort of twisted form of entertainment. he he he... But it would be clear within a matter of a minute or seconds, that I was just joking with them. I would expect to have a partner in crime to perhaps play a few practical jokes on people from time to time. Now on another hand, for example there was a mean dog in the neighborhood, that the authorities did nothing about, and the owners were still being in a state of negelence... and it was going after a kid one day. If made the choice to go after and kill that damn dog, I'd expect for her to be supportive in the manner, and not going off all Tree Hugging Animal rights activist on me. If the cops show up at my door, Yes.. I killed that damn dog. If anybody shows up questioning me and my actions. I will be yes! I killed that damn dog. Clearly while killing another living something is morally questionable, I had a specific reasoning regarding other people's safetly, including my own and the submissives. Might sound a little redneckish of me... But Honey, Go fetch me the shotgun.. I'm gonna kill that damn dog and put an end to this madness. I'd expect for her to do just that, fetch me that damn shotgun... I'll take full responsibility for anything that happens or results from my own actions. I'll explain it in court if I have to, as to why I discharged a firearm in neighborhood, accept any fines or whatnot for my own actions.

gypsygrl -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 8:23:48 AM)
quote: The answer has been I don't have enought fight and kick. I've been told this. It's sort of true, but not really. I don't bring my skills at 'fighting and kicking' to my D/s relationships. Using those skills is a resource intensive endeavor, and for the most part, wasteful. The energy used in fighting and kicking could be better put to more productive ends. quote: I need to argue back, in general they are looking for someone who will be a "brat" in a power exchange. They enjoy punishing/reprimanding and I just didn't give them that release they needed. Yeah. Personally, I'd rather find something to do that's really challenging where I'm going to make mistakes, and incorporate discipline that way than play some silly game of being a smartass so someone has an excuse to discipline me. quote: I am a doormat and will not change..... Well, perhaps if trained to do so, it could happen. For I am a doormat and I want to please. I've gone there. The big danger for me is I may end up 'flipping the top.' It's happened. What started out as kind of a game ended up with me really being a smart ass. In a couple months, I met the challenge and couldn't really go back. It got to be like, shit, where'd that witty remark come from? What happened? What happened was I learned a skill and got pretty good at using it. It wrecked havoc on the power exchange. (Years ago, something similar happened with slut training. I started out super inhibited and ridiculously shy and ended up with less inhibitions than the one who trained me. I wound up getting really bored.)

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 8:29:10 AM)
BTW... I don't own any shotguns or firearms. In case anybody is wondering. What I wrote in my last post was for the sake of Example. Please don't take me so literally, unless I express something as being a past experience or such. People tend to read a little more into things, at times. LOL.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 9:09:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I agree with everything you have said in your posts, but in all honesty, I don't think I can say I strive for "complete obedience". There is scenarios where I expect them to disobey. They may trust me and know me well enough to know I won't ever put them in such a scenario, but still if it did happen for whatever reason, I would be pretty ticked if they went along with it without speaking up to me about it. In this case, they would be disobeying by not disobeying. [;)] Seriously, I am required to use my brain. Like the example used in my first post, if Master told me to wait in the car and I did, but the car caught on fire, I would be disobeying by remaining in the car and not using common sense. The orders he gives me are with an assumption that all is well - that the car isn't going to catch on fire and that injuries aren't going to happen. But if circumstances change and I find myself in danger, it is required of me to protect myself when not in his presence. If I have information that he doesn't and I'm in his presence but about to get really hurt, it is required of me to speak up about it. After all, I exist to please him and I can't really please him if I'm dead.

OsideGirl -> RE: Complete obedience = doormat? (5/26/2008 1:32:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross The people most against doormats tend to be the ones most worried they might be one and aren't happy with that. And a lot of people never seem to consider the concept of training your slave to know when to disobey or when to question. Agreed. Master has long maintained that obedience is overrated. He'd rather be involved with someone that knows when to question. He'd also rather be involved with someone that is pro-active rather than reactive.

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