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RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:03:30 PM

FullCircle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
The evidence we ahve is the word of the nefew, as posted that they had his aunt's phone with them still, and that the police used the aunt's phone to locate the suspects (possesion of the phone in itself is sufficient probable cause for the arrest.)
The rest of the evidence used to get a conviction is beyond the scope of what we know.

Fact the woman was killed violently
Fact tracking HER phone lead the police to these suspects
Fact possession of the phone constituted probable cause for an arrest.

Are you arguing that the law should be applied differently for crime detection than for prosecution? i.e. it doesn't matter if all the dots were not dotted and the t's not crossed as long as the end justifies the means? How many people have had their private lives exposed and been harassed by the police all in the name of crime detection?

There is a bigger argument at stake here and has a wider scope than specific success stories. As someone else said putting CCTV in everyone’s front room will eliminate domestic violence. Why are you so sure voyeurs don't exist in the police? When powers are given they have to be given carefully and for the right reasons.

It's easy putting laws in place but how many unjust laws remain? Not very American to be giving away your freedoms so easily.

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(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 61

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:03:30 PM

Archer

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The reason sometimes cellphones can be tracked well enough and other times they cannot is simple.
Cellphones operate on line of sight. and if you only have reception from one tower all you get is a general direction vector from the tower. If you have two towers you get two vectors and that brings the area down quite a bit, where the vectors cross is the area they are within an error factor. However if the phone is newer and has 911 GPS the technology makes it more accurate even than two vectors. and if the phone has an actual GPS chip then you can get within 10 meter circle. (assumeing all satalites are unscrambled.)

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 62

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:08:03 PM

daddysliloneds

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i'll never forget the day i had a blow-out in a rear tire, that wrapped itself around the rear axle of my car, somewhere in the middle of never, never land of mexico...

i dialed 911; they zeroed in on my location, and sent help...

so what's the problem with being able to track me again?

(in reply to pinksugarsub)

Post #: 63

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:08:25 PM

rulemylife

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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's a fucked up world, FullCircle, it's a fucked up world.

Thank God, or we wouldn't have anything to bitch about and we would REALLY be bored!

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 64

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:09:01 PM

Archer

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No and don't see any reasonable way it could be interpreted as such.

The Phone BELONGED to the dead woman.
Tracking the phone's whereabouts thus did not violate anyone's rights. It's a much safer assumption that the police asked her next of kin for permission. than to assume as you did that the police had the suspects phone information.
Possession of that phone, stolen property, certainly constitutess probable cause.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 65

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:09:13 PM

DomAviator

Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

damn
there is a new gps being developed with the National guard thats supposed to have a panic button, hopefully that will make it so there are less dead hikers

(sorry for the hijack)
heres a quote that is more on-topic

The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory. - Thomas Jefferson

Those are out there and have been for a while,., They are just coming into civilian hands. It is called an EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon) and they broadcast a tone burst on military and civilian aviation and marine distress frequencies and a discreet sat frequency.

They are installed on every aircraft including small cessnas where they are known as an ELT (Emergency Locator Transmitter) and are activated manually or by impact or immersion. Ancedotally I know from experience, they bring a quick response... My ex-wife dropped one off the shelf in the garage and activated it.... LOL

Edited to add: Here is a link for you on the technology asher http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html

< Message edited by DomAviator -- 6/5/2008 2:12:57 PM >

(in reply to Asherdelampyr)

Post #: 66

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:10:30 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Thank God, or we wouldn't have anything to bitch about and we would REALLY be bored!

Not sure about that, you know...

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Post #: 67

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:11:22 PM

FullCircle

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Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds
i'll never forget the day i had a blow-out in a rear tire, that wrapped itself around the rear axle of my car, somewhere in the middle of never, never land of mexico...

i dialed 911; they zeroed in on my location, and sent help...

so what's the problem with being able to track me again?

Lucky you didn't come to depend on a small battery powered object rather than learn to read a map isn't it?

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(in reply to daddysliloneds)

Post #: 68

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:17:42 PM

SeeksOnlyOne

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Nor do all the potential abuses negate the benifits. They have to be ballanced.

The evidence we ahve is the word of the nephew, as posted that they had his aunt's phone with them still, and that the police used the aunt's phone to locate the suspects (possesion of the phone in itself is sufficient probable cause for the arrest.)
The rest of the evidence used to get a conviction is beyond the scope of what we know.

Fact the woman was killed violently
Fact tracking HER phone lead the police to these suspects
Fact possession of the phone constituted probable cause for an arrest.

the niece....i needa new pic-lmfao

carry on

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(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 69

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:20:26 PM

daddysliloneds

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds
i'll never forget the day i had a blow-out in a rear tire, that wrapped itself around the rear axle of my car, somewhere in the middle of never, never land of mexico...

i dialed 911; they zeroed in on my location, and sent help...

so what's the problem with being able to track me again?

Lucky you didn't come to depend on a small battery powered object rather than learn to read a map isn't it?

a smart-assed answer in reply to your smart-assed question should be in order here, but i'll do better than that, i'll be honest: ever see a map that shows every un-named dirt road in the middle of no-where? thought not!

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 70

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:21:32 PM

DomAviator

Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds
i'll never forget the day i had a blow-out in a rear tire, that wrapped itself around the rear axle of my car, somewhere in the middle of never, never land of mexico...

i dialed 911; they zeroed in on my location, and sent help...

so what's the problem with being able to track me again?

Lucky you didn't come to depend on a small battery powered object rather than learn to read a map isn't it?

In her defense - do you drive while keeping a navigation log and checking off waypoints??? Hmmmmm? If you had a mechanical breakdown as she did on a long lonely road would you have been navigating in such a manner as to say "Yes, I am 3.1 miles south east of the STAAKS Intersection on the 243 radial of the Scholes Vortac"... There have been many times, right here in texas, when about the best position report I would have while driving would be "I am somewhere on I-10 west maybe 2 hours out of Houston?" I dont check off exits as I pass them and for some reason never get a flat or something in front of a mile marker or exit LOL

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 71

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:22:10 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
The Phone BELONGED to the dead woman.
Tracking the phone's whereabouts thus did not violate anyone's rights.

So you are basically saying the argument given was irrelevant to this discussion anyway because this discussion is about living people being tracked by their mobiles without their consent

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Post #: 72

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:25:45 PM

rulemylife

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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

do they say what model of cell phone he had?
cause I know some of em dont have a gps feature (though by and large they have been phased out)

No it didn't but I know it happens a lot. When I lived in California there was a mountain range...I believe in another state. Anyway there are certain months of the year it is "not recommended" to hike. Every single year someone would get lost. They'd call the rescuers. Who would then risk their own life to go search. To more often than not never locate them. I've been trying to think of the mountain all day...so far my mind is a blank. It was all over the news...to. At least 3 or 4 small groups of people a year would go missing on that mountain.
Maybe if you are important enough they track you when you are lost. If your relatives and friends have made the right impression on the cops or whoever.
I know a lot of people go untracked every single year. Only to find thawing bodies the next spring.

OK, off-topic, but I have to agree and have to rant. I live near Lake Erie and every year we have rescues that we taxpayers pay for because idiots try to go ice fishing and drive their atv's or suv's out onto the lake when the weather service has forecast thin ice conditions. Meanwhile, if they survive, they become "heroes" in the media for surviving the elements when they shouldn't have been out there in the first place and they cost everyone else tens of thousands of dollars to be rescued by the Coast Guard.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 73

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:27:21 PM

kittinSol

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Common sense 101: nature isn't an adventure playground.

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Post #: 74

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:28:30 PM

Asherdelampyr

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Awesome link Aviator... that stuff has always fascinated me (maybe why I work with satellites now :P)

and the OP was describing research done by a university, nothing else. (well, except paranoia)

< Message edited by Asherdelampyr -- 6/5/2008 2:30:02 PM >

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(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 75

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:30:08 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds
a smart-assed answer in reply to your smart-assed question should be in order here, but i'll do better than that, i'll be honest: ever see a map that shows every un-named dirt road in the middle of no-where? thought not!

I wouldn't be very good at my job if that were the case so I guess you should forget your assumptions as I’m only pointing out the obvious which is: if you didn’t have the phone more planning would have occurred and more importantly the next time you might forget to charge it. There is always a next time it is wishful thinking to think otherwise.

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(in reply to daddysliloneds)

Post #: 76

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:30:48 PM

Archer

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Joined: 3/11/2005
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I'm saying you jumped to a conclussion with facts not in evidence, and that lead us down the path to an idea that is not exactly on topic.

My first thought was they used the aunt's phone to track the suspects, your first assumption was the police somehow got the phone information of the suspects themselves ( I guess through magic) and tracked them through their own phones.
I started out by asking you if you had considered my assumption, which was then confirmed by the niece (got it right this time seeks). You then proceeded to duck and dodge and do anything to avoid the fact that your assumption was wildly wrong.
And remain zigging and zagging.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 77

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:36:14 PM

thornhappy

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Joined: 12/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

i remember when P/pl used to grouse about a national i.d. card...this takes government interference in our private lives to a whole new level. In my mind there is no chance at all that if they have learned HOW to do this, they WILL do it...to A/anyone they choose.

This option can be turned off for Verizon phones (only E-911 will show your location.)

thornhappy

(in reply to pinksugarsub)

Post #: 78

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:38:50 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator
In her defense - do you drive while keeping a navigation log and checking off waypoints??? Hmmmmm? If you had a mechanical breakdown as she did on a long lonely road would you have been navigating in such a manner as to say "Yes, I am 3.1 miles south east of the STAAKS Intersection on the 243 radial of the Scholes Vortac"... There have been many times, right here in texas, when about the best position report I would have while driving would be "I am somewhere on I-10 west maybe 2 hours out of Houston?" I dont check off exits as I pass them and for some reason never get a flat or something in front of a mile marker or exit LOL

Maybe it is unique to me but I tend to keep track of things the more unfamiliar territory I'm in. I only take my location for granted when I've been there a thousand times and know the place like the back of my hand. I know you though are one of these free spirits that gets lost in the moment and ends up in Mexico after heading for Canada, I'm not like that I keep track because at some point I know I'm going to have to find my way back. Also cross referencing maps for rivers, and land topography isn't exactly brain surgery, I don't even need a compass to tell me which way is north, you better not come to depend on your compass either because the poles are in the process of switching I hear.

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Post #: 79

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:39:20 PM

thornhappy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

   If i remember correctly, that was how they located OJ Simpson, leading to that painfully long low speed search televised across the west.
   if someone is that focused on your activity, you are already in trouble.

That feature wasn't in cell phones back then - it took a mandate from the FCC to get Enhanced-911 (gps coordinates from the phone) to start the ball rolling. It wasn't liked by the cell phone industry, since it was more circuitry and another antenna.

They could track you to a give site and sector (on CDMA systems, at least.) If he was on the old cellular (analog), they could triangulate based on the site receiption but it was pretty slow.

thornhappy

(in reply to atursvcMaam)

Post #: 80

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