RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 4 [5]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:42:20 PM

thornhappy

Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Hang on... they can remotely tap a cell phone and listen to its user even when the device is off?

Nope. The only circuitry on the phone that is running is an extremely low power circuit that detects the power on keys. If that sucker had the receiver running (necessary to receive a message), you'd see the battery go flat pretty quick (compared to the time it takes the battery to run down when it's turned off.)

thornhappy

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 81

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:49:13 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Well, I'd prefer that they did not track me. Even if I wind up dead somewhere...it is my fault and I understand they may never find my body because I don't have a gps on my phone.
I do feel it is a violation of my rights.

I'm not one of the total idiots who doesn't listen to warnings about going near avalanches or hurricanes or whatever.
I don't care if someone comes to save my life if I'm an idiot. After all I put myself in that situation.
So, the government can stop tracking my whereabouts at any time.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 82

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 2:52:44 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
You then proceeded to duck and dodge and do anything to avoid the fact that your assumption was wildly wrong.
And remain zigging and zagging.

So this is now a discussion about my initial assumption being wrong? You'll note I said "On the contrary it would be nice to hear about positive uses." quite some time ago.

I don't see how I've been avoiding anything we are having a discussion where you have basically said "Yes I'll sign up for the people tracking initiative if I hear one good story about it."

where as I've been saying all along one good story isn't enough.

Don't tell me we've been talking all this time about what I assumed? Someone used an emotive argument to justify their position and I gave a logical explanation for me having her mobile and not being guilty of the crime. Now you are turning this into a debate about the initial assumptions I made, that is irrelevant to the discussion in my view.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 83

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 3:09:10 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

There is already one paid for by your tax dollars and mine. It is called "prison" and functions as higher education for up and coming criminals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
It's just unbelievable how *fucking stupid* criminals are these days!
Maybe I should start a "crime college" and charge big bucks for it!
"Rule number one, *Keep your mouth shut!"*
*Don't say ANYTHING, ever!*

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 84

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 3:13:38 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
I don't even need a compass to tell me which way is north, you better not come to depend on your compass either because the poles are in the process of switching I hear.

Apart from in the UK where the sky is always hidden by the fucking rain clouds

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 85

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 3:27:34 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

General reply -

Am I surprised about this study and the implications? No
Are we tracked in our daily lives, however mundane they may be? Yes
All the electronic devices; computers, cell phones, ATMs, GPS, credit cards, store discount cards, electronic parole monitoring devices, etc. leave evidence of our habits and routines.

This information can be used in positive or negative ways and it is in our best interest to pay attention to the laws governing how this type of technology is used.

Vendaval

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 86

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 11:10:14 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

You forget the HUGE gap between probable cause, whcih was all I stated the police would have (and all the need to arrest you) and your argument that you might have come by the stolen property (possesion of which is a crime in and of itself) through your willingness to engadge in shady deals n the street. You would in this case be guilty of recieveing stolen goods, because you should have known a deal made on the street with a seller in a big hurry could be stolen. The transaction would not have qualified as made in good faith, by anyone with half an active brain cell.

I mentioned at least as prominently as your flimsy how you recieved the phone story, that there was a potential for misuse and cautioned we have to watch the ballance of technology and privacy.

As to irrellvance, my assertation was your humanity is sorely lacking if you skip right over the murder without so much as an "I'm sorry for yor loss, BUT....."
Which I still maintain is an accurate perspective of your treatment of the subject. So my continueing off topic while irrelivent speaks volumes about your lack of humanity in this side subject.

My sideing with the victim of a crime was not as you characterized it hole hearted buying into the idea of take away privacy for the security added. I called for BALLANCE you called for extream one sided view.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 87

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 11:15:29 PM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Pretty much all cell phones have GPS tracking in them anymore. All digital phones. I have a few friends who kept the analog phones so they couldn't be tracked without their knowledge.

People who I know who work for the government get their paychecks. Cash them. Carry no cell phones when off duty. Will not use a credit or atm card. Its a cash and carry world for them primarily because we are tracked with everything electronic we do.
Including everytime you log onto the internet..and everywhere you go when logged on.

i'm not doing anything illegal (*sighs*). That doesn't mean i can't mourn the loss of the 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure. i value that protection (or i did, when i still had it.)

pinksugarsub

_____________________________

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 88

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/5/2008 11:17:48 PM

DomAviator

Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

You forget the HUGE gap between probable cause, whcih was all I stated the police would have (and all the need to arrest you) and your argument that you might have come by the stolen property (possesion of which is a crime in and of itself) through your willingness to engadge in shady deals n the street. You would in this case be guilty of recieveing stolen goods, because you should have known a deal made on the street with a seller in a big hurry could be stolen. The transaction would not have qualified as made in good faith, by anyone with half an active brain cell.

And to build upon what Archer said, you generally do not OWN cell phones much less active ones. My "free phones", until I fulfil the contracts, are the property of T-Mobile and Nextel and are not mine to sell. (Hence the reason they are "locked" to a specific network)The service is not mine to resell either as I am not a T-Mobile or Nextel dealer - they have a contract with ME not some guy on the street I choose to sell the phone to.

< Message edited by DomAviator -- 6/5/2008 11:19:14 PM >

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 89

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/6/2008 12:29:10 AM

atursvcMaam

Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

If i remember correctly, that was how they located OJ Simpson, leading to that painfully long low speed search televised across the west.
if someone is that focused on your activity, you are already in trouble.

That feature wasn't in cell phones back then - it took a mandate from the FCC to get Enhanced-911 (gps coordinates from the phone) to start the ball rolling. It wasn't liked by the cell phone industry, since it was more circuitry and another antenna.

They could track you to a give site and sector (on CDMA systems, at least.) If he was on the old cellular (analog), they could triangulate based on the site receiption but it was pretty slow.

thornhappy

In 1983 when cell technology was relatively new it would take about 20 seconds if the person was travelling between or among cell sites, and the person tracking knew what he was doing. Slow by today's standards, and yes based on triangulation, not GPS.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to thornhappy)

Post #: 90

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/6/2008 4:03:54 AM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Hang on... they can remotely tap a cell phone and listen to its user even when the device is off?

Ok, I gotta ask this, cause I am obviously missing something.

If your phone is off, what exactly would they be listening to, if they could listen?

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 91

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/6/2008 6:36:18 AM

SeeksOnlyOne

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Hang on... they can remotely tap a cell phone and listen to its user even when the device is off?

Ok, I gotta ask this, cause I am obviously missing something.

If your phone is off, what exactly would they be listening to, if they could listen?

hello darkness my old friend......ive come to talk to you again?

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to orfunboi)

Post #: 92

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/6/2008 11:32:24 AM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

thorn, you are wrong. Let me put it this way, when you take the battery out of your phone and you don't have to set the time nor your speed dial numbers, what do you think does that ?

Read my post, it can record off the microphone and store it for later transmission. there are extremely low power A/D converters and memory, I am into electronics and I have seen the documentation on some of the ICs that do this.

Current drain of the D/A converter and the memory IC are down in the microamps, and they only run on like two volts. The lithium battery in your PC could save hours of voice. They don't even have to use anything that big.

Alot of people do not know what the current state of the art in technology actually is. I might know more, but I do not know it all. But I know for sure that this is possible.

You want scary ? They can make a bug the size of a quarter now, which will transmit for a long time. It is low power and the reciever must be local, but it will work.

Just to get an idea, one of the ways they bugged the Watergate was by bouncing a laser beam off of a window. Yes they also went in, but they had this going as well. What year was that ? Now think of what year it is now.

People think advancements in technology are in the PS2, PS3 the PS4 that we know is coming. Or the Xbox or the Wii. That is the tip of the iceberg so to speak.

They can see through the roofs of most houses when you are a target, using the entire electromagnetic spectrum the cameras see much more than the human eye. For example finding a pot plant in a cornfield. Have you seen the pictures of your own backyard from a satellite which is available on the internet ? They are only giving you the visible spectrum. There is alot more. ALOT more.

T

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

Post #: 93

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/6/2008 12:01:37 PM

BlackPhx

Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline

Ok so now here is an article that brings rthis all home to roost. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24991575/ basically a stolen camera essentially phoned home by uploading pictures of the thieves to the home computer remotely thanks to a special SD chip and a wireless connection

Poenkitten.

(in reply to Irishknight)

Post #: 94

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/6/2008 1:13:15 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
As to irrellvance, my assertation was your humanity is sorely lacking if you skip right over the murder without so much as an "I'm sorry for yor loss, BUT....."
Which I still maintain is an accurate perspective of your treatment of the subject. So my continueing off topic while irrelivent speaks volumes about your lack of humanity in this side subject.

Some things go without saying and quite frankly no one cares how sorry I am someone died. It's not my humanity that is lacking it's just simply a case of me only saying things people would realistically believe. It means nothing to someone if I say sorry, it doesn't help anyone it is just words. Someone’s humanity can't be judged by the words a person says but the actions and actions in this environment are impossible. Stop with the I'm a heartless person characterisation, it’s nonsense and beside the point.

If it's an automatic response then it's meaningless anyway; when people says "I'm sorry for your loss" what does it really mean and why are they apologising? If people cared they'd say something more meaningful rather than a phrase that is used over and over again and means very little to the person it's directed at.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 95

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/6/2008 1:18:46 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator
And to build upon what Archer said, you generally do not OWN cell phones much less active ones. My "free phones", until I fulfil the contracts, are the property of T-Mobile and Nextel and are not mine to sell. (Hence the reason they are "locked" to a specific network)The service is not mine to resell either as I am not a T-Mobile or Nextel dealer - they have a contract with ME not some guy on the street I choose to sell the phone to.

Pay as you go phones are not the property of the network I paid for my handset full price and it's mine. They can try and pry it from my cold dead hand.

(I'm not sure pry is the right word but oh well)

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 6/6/2008 1:21:03 PM >

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to DomAviator)

Post #: 96

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/6/2008 1:37:45 PM

thornhappy

Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

thorn, you are wrong. Let me put it this way, when you take the battery out of your phone and you don't have to set the time nor your speed dial numbers, what do you think does that ?

Your speed dial numbers, personality settings, etc. are held in NVRAM (EEPROM), which doesn't need battery backup. The time is obtained from the cellular base station.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Read my post, it can record off the microphone and store it for later transmission. there are extremely low power A/D converters and memory, I am into electronics and I have seen the documentation on some of the ICs that do this.

Current drain of the D/A converter and the memory IC are down in the microamps, and they only run on like two volts. The lithium battery in your PC could save hours of voice. They don't even have to use anything that big.

I used to work for a cellular design and manufacturing firm. This kind of circuitry would be possible, but not probable. I've seen a lot of teardowns of current mobile phones, and none have that type of circuitry. And while you can do this discretely, a lot of these functions are integrated. To do this you'd add to the overhead of the IC, and require power supply repartitioning (have to power up the reference clock, memory, etc.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Alot of people do not know what the current state of the art in technology actually is. I might know more, but I do not know it all. But I know for sure that this is possible.

Yes, possible but not probably. All you're doing is adding to the BOM, and the industry squawked like banshees when ordered to implement E-911, due to the increased BOM in an industry running on incredibly thin margins.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
They can see through the roofs of most houses when you are a target, using the entire electromagnetic spectrum the cameras see much more than the human eye. For example finding a pot plant in a cornfield. Have you seen the pictures of your own backyard from a satellite which is available on the internet ? They are only giving you the visible spectrum. There is alot more. ALOT more.

T

I've not seen anything to date that can see through your roof unless you've got no ceiling or insulation (IR may be able to see through under some limited circumstances.) UWB radar can see through a house (however it's low power and you generally need a few transceivers.) The pot plant in a cornfield can be seen by utilizing multi-spectral systems (by comparing different IR, UV, and visible wavelengths for instance.)

(I do know a fair bit of the "lot more".)

thornhappy

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 97

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/6/2008 2:01:51 PM

DomAviator

Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
They can see through the roofs of most houses when you are a target, using the entire electromagnetic spectrum the cameras see much more than the human eye. For example finding a pot plant in a cornfield. Have you seen the pictures of your own backyard from a satellite which is available on the internet ? They are only giving you the visible spectrum. There is alot more. ALOT more.

T

I've not seen anything to date that can see through your roof unless you've got no ceiling or insulation (IR may be able to see through under some limited circumstances.) UWB radar can see through a house (however it's low power and you generally need a few transceivers.) The pot plant in a cornfield can be seen by utilizing multi-spectral systems (by comparing different IR, UV, and visible wavelengths for instance.)

(I do know a fair bit of the "lot more".)

thornhappy

There are various things that can see through roofs even if insulated. For example there are various laser acoustic systems which actually use a digital processing algorhythm to synthesize an image based upon the acoustic signature of a persons movement / breathing etc... HOWEVER, as thorn said in numerous other places - possible but unlikely.

If you are someone special enough to warrant the use of a multibillion dollar sattelite, or a fly over by something fresh out of the skunkworks, or to have Delta Force or DEV/GRU gathering intel on your home - then you really deserve to have your privacy invaded ... Term, obey the law and you need not fear surveillence. Don't put a pot plant in a cornfield. Do what smart people do and get you pot from a cop!

(in reply to thornhappy)

Post #: 98

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/6/2008 3:06:11 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

LOL, I am starting to like this place.

We got thorn over here who did not actually rebut what I said, but I will agree that it is unlikely. At least at this time. Thing is, there is no way to know what exactly is in an IC, even with the spec sheet. Believe me I have seen alot of them. And one thing, time and date cannot be maintained by NVRAM. It takes a clock. That takes a processor. Your phone can store pictures, ever hear the old saying a picture is worth a thousand words ? Well I'm sure that has changed but even of all the diverse people I know nobody really can answer. If the pictures can be in NVRAM so can the voice recording. You download an MP3, say three megs for a four minute song. We are talking 44.1Khz sampling and 128 K MPEG encoding. Full stereo. Basically a high resolution signal. And of course you can read and write to NVRAM. It is not very power hungry even if you invoke a write cycle. All the battery has to run is the processor really, that is what will be consuming the power. But they have made strides in reducing power consumption of such devices.If not laptop PCs would still have 486s in them. These gigahertz speeds in your home PC would not be possible. And when you unplug that PC and it comes back displaying the correct time and date, there was a processor involved. It's basically built into the chipset, and documentation of the chips will not tell you enough to know if these things have been implemented. Thing is, we all know they could, we just don't know that they do.

Now with a cellphone being turned off but the battery in, it can easily be a bug. And that has happened. What I am talking about that I don't know if they do yet is to actually record while the main battery is dead or missing. When it is off it is simply in the off mode, it is not really off. Like a remote controlled TV, part of it stays alive waiting for input. This is exactly what we are talking about. Input.

Can a small part of a processor,or possibly a different processor run on a 3.6V battery and write A/D converted audio to NVRAM ? Of that there is no doubt. Do they do it ? I don't know, I doubt it. I imagine if you were John Gotti walking into a cellphone store they might offer you this special deal, but as possible as it is, I think it unlikely to be incorporated into all cellphones AT THIS TIME. Think about it, change batteries in your cellphone, do you lose the pictures ? This is not rocket science.

As for rocket science now we have DA. They don't need a Harrier over your property to see this shit. If their lenses can pull up a license plate number from a geosynchonous orbit (for those who don't know that is a bit over 22,000 miles up from the equator) they don't need to get close.

Actually that brings up a curiousity of mine, how to focus it. Whatever they use for lenses, there is no exception. No material has has same refractive index for all visible wavelengths even, let alone going into short UV and far IR. Even to take a decent photograph they used to have to coat lenses and use compound lenses with both crown and flint glass elements. Going beyond the visible spectrum certainly posed some challenges.

There has not been much information released about this technology, I guess for good reason.

I'll be back.

T

(in reply to DomAviator)

Post #: 99

RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use - 6/6/2008 4:22:10 PM

Irishknight

Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-6140191.html

I hope that works. My googling skills are a bit lacking but there ya go.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 100

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 4 [5]

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Big Brother Tracks P/pl's Location by Cell Phone Use

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 4 [5]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109