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RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 5:47:04 PM   
wanderingstray


Posts: 26
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		I always looked at it from the ethical viewpoint and not as a sexual question. In ethical terms cheating is unambiguous. It destroys trust, which make impossible the type of relationship I prefer, that is, one based on trust and good will. I have never wanted anyone else other than the woman I was with in a relationship. My focus narrows. Another woman might remind me of sex and then I would want my own woman. If I ever had the desire and the opportunity I might have twisted my thinking to suit my sneaky wishes. But I never had to deal with that. One woman is plenty for me. Once that bond forms the rest of the world fades into the background as far as my heart is concerned. I prefer what happens being devoted and true to what pleasure I might get sleeping with others, even if it lasts only a while and falls apart in due course.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 5:48:57 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

I've been an unknowing accessory.  At least unknowing when it happened, and when I found out I walked away from the situation.
 
It's not something that I condone.  It's not something that I tolerate - whether it's in myself or my partner.
 
Have I Considered doing so?  Yes - but walked away from the unsatisfying relationship instead, after trying everything I could think of (and a few things I didn't think of that were suggested by friends) to work on the problems prior to doing so.

Thank you for your honest response.  I admire that you were able to control yourself better than I obviously was.
 
quote:

do not consider open relationships to be cheating.  That is a choice made between All of those involved.
Totally agreed.
 
quote:

Cheating is being decietful about it

This I agree with........
quote:

- and once you're willing to be decietful about one thing, it quickly degenerates into a willingness to be decietful about Everything. 

This, I do not.  I am typically a very honest, above-board person.  I was able to maintain trust in many ways with many people in my life at the same time I was involved in relationships with married men.  Just because I did that didn't make me a liar in every other way with every other person.  That's kind of like the "gateway drug" argument.  Not everyone who smokes pot becomes a junkie or crackhead and not everyone who sleeps with a married person lies or is deceitful about everything else in their lives.  That "slippery slope" argument, at least in my case, doesn't hold water.
quote:

 Then the trust is gone, and what's left?  If you have to lie to accomplish it - it's wrong.

Again, I'd say in MOST cases, that's true.  Not in all scenarios we face in life.

Again, thanks for your honest and forthright answer.....................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 5:50:28 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I'm going to catch some flak as a result of this post,and agree before hand that this view has enough holes in it to drive a truck thru.Here goes...in my mind there are different classes of cheating...there is the anonymous sex ,nothing premeditated ,your bit on the ass, bite back kind.Than there is the whole "affair "thing.Now both of these could theoretically be done without hurting your partner,if the partner never find out.With the latter though even if the partner stays ignorant to the whole thing the very nature of an "affair"means your stealing time and attention from the primary relationship.....so having said all that ...I was guilty of the former victim of the latter...BTW it ended the marriage(Though I suppose it was just a symtom of a dead marriage anyway)  

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 5:54:54 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterGyre
Thanks for making a topic like this.  I always feel like I have to defend myself when I explain my 'less-than-absolutely-faithful' past relationships and I hate feeling that way.  In my case, I suffered as badly and as long, if not worse and longer, than the people I cheated on.  I went through as much mental torture and baggage as they did, the guilt ate me away as much as their sorrow ate at them.

You are very welcome, Kami and welcome to the boards.  Thank you for making your answer to my post your first post.

I know exactly what you mean.  I always feel a bit rankled when every instance of infidelity is cause for condemnation and name-calling with no understanding of individual circumstances.  And I thank you for bringing up another part of the issue of "cheating" and that is the feelings the "cheater" experiences as well.  Most people aren't proud of doing something like that.  Some are but not all by any means.  You stated it beautifully above.  There are at least two sides to every issue but usually many more.

And again, I reiterate:  With all the cheating going on, just where ARE all these cheatin' scumbags?  Obviously, not here on CM.  Sincere thanks to all who have posted and "confessed."  I knew I wasn't the only one........................luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to MasterGyre)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 5:58:19 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wanderingstray

I always looked at it from the ethical viewpoint and not as a sexual question. In ethical terms cheating is unambiguous

I obviously disagree.
quote:

It destroys trust, which make impossible the type of relationship I prefer, that is, one based on trust and good will.

I wholeheartedly agree with this NOW.  But not back then.  NOW I have that type of relationship and it's fulfilling enough to make thoughts of "cheating" vanish. 
quote:

I have never wanted anyone else other than the woman I was with in a relationship. My focus narrows. Another woman might remind me of sex and then I would want my own woman. If I ever had the desire and the opportunity I might have twisted my thinking to suit my sneaky wishes.

And what's wrong with suiting one's sneaky wishes?  No, seriously.  I understand what you're saying.  You're fortunate that you have never felt as tempted as I have or, if you HAVE been, you were strong enough to resist.  Congrats.
quote:

 But I never had to deal with that. One woman is plenty for me. Once that bond forms the rest of the world fades into the background as far as my heart is concerned. I prefer what happens being devoted and true to what pleasure I might get sleeping with others, even if it lasts only a while and falls apart in due course

Amen.  At THIS point in my life, so do I..................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to wanderingstray)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 6:00:39 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		I have been the accessory a few times but have never cheated.  There are times that I wish I had cheated such as when I found out my exwife was cheating.  I think I was angrier at myself for passing up opportunities than at her for taking them. 

(in reply to slaveluci)
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RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 6:00:48 PM   
MasterGyre


Posts: 6
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterGyre
Thanks for making a topic like this.  I always feel like I have to defend myself when I explain my 'less-than-absolutely-faithful' past relationships and I hate feeling that way.  In my case, I suffered as badly and as long, if not worse and longer, than the people I cheated on.  I went through as much mental torture and baggage as they did, the guilt ate me away as much as their sorrow ate at them.

You are very welcome, Kami and welcome to the boards.  Thank you for making your answer to my post your first post.

I know exactly what you mean.  I always feel a bit rankled when every instance of infidelity is cause for condemnation and name-calling with no understanding of individual circumstances.  And I thank you for bringing up another part of the issue of "cheating" and that is the feelings the "cheater" experiences as well.  Most people aren't proud of doing something like that.  Some are but not all by any means.  You stated it beautifully above.  There are at least two sides to every issue but usually many more.

And again, I reiterate:  With all the cheating going on, just where ARE all these cheatin' scumbags?  Obviously, not here on CM.  Sincere thanks to all who have posted and "confessed."  I knew I wasn't the only one........................luci


Thank you.  We've been lurking around for a while, just haven't found anything relative to say yet.  ^^'

~Gyre's Kami

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 6:09:06 PM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline 		Immediate caveat: this doesn't apply to open relationships or otherwise clear circumstances, such as referenced in DesFIP's post; if you cannot get sex from your other, that's quite another issue.  With that said...

I have definitely cheated.  It was a mistake at the time; I was much younger (about 10 years), and likewise, much less mature and capable regarding how I handled relationships.

It was definitely a bad idea, and I can say resoundingly I would never do it again.  I believe that in most cases people cheat for one of two reasons:

- Inability to exercise self-control in the face of temptation (and this is a non-trivial issue, as most people have less self-control than we deceive ourselves into believing).

- Unwillingness to face up to other issues and using it as an escape / out.

The former case happens; I can't say I condone it, but it is part of human nature.  However, people are judged by actions and the outcome of those actions, so it will have consequences.  It's hard to advice "don't do that" when the whole problem is lacking the self-control not to, however.

As to the second one, that is a bigger issue to me; also the one I am (stupidly) guilty of.  The deceit factor, ultimately, is what does the damage in the end.  I think, having done it myself, it's a tragically bad idea and I can't advise it to anyone.  Others have stated the same, but I will re-iterate that you cannot have a relationship with a strong foundation based on trust if you are busy deceiving someone about the things that matter, and this falls into that category.

At this point I am very blunt and open about what I want out of relationships, whether I intend to be exclusive with a person or not, and what I expect out of them.  I try to learn from my past mistakes and have refined my world-view and approach to relationships.

If that doesn't work for the other person, I take a pass and move on.

_____________________________

Send lawyers, guns, and money.

(in reply to MasterGyre)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 6:09:22 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
 and once you're willing to be decietful about one thing, it quickly degenerates into a willingness to be decietful about Everything. 

This, I do not.  I am typically a very honest, above-board person.  I was able to maintain trust in many ways with many people in my life at the same time I was involved in relationships with married men.  Just because I did that didn't make me a liar in every other way with every other person.  That's kind of like the "gateway drug" argument.  Not everyone who smokes pot becomes a junkie or crackhead and not everyone who sleeps with a married person lies or is deceitful about everything else in their lives.  That "slippery slope" argument, at least in my case, doesn't hold water.


I suppose part of it luci is that I see the decietfulness primarily in the person who has a partner  - the one who is Cheating rather than being an Accessory to Cheating.  While you as an accessory might not have become decietful in other areas, can you Really say the same about the males who used you TO cheat?  How certain are you that they were being honest with YOU, considering that they were so obviously dishonest with their wives?  Could you say the same about Anyone who is supposedly Committed to their Relationship who goes and finds someone to cheat with?  Doesn't matter whether they are male or female, gay or straight - they made a commitment, and then lied to break that commitment, which in the long run leads to other lies to cover up the first lies.
 
I've had a partner do some Serious cheating on me - the father of my 10 yr old.  He did so for 4 Months, much of that with someone who knew from the outset what the Truth of the situation was, since she was one of My Best Friends at the time.  It was While I was pregnant with his kid - and she knew that it was his kid, and that we lived together, and that I didn't know what was going on behind my back - not much chance she didn't, since she was often a guest in our home at My unknowing invitation!  When I accidentally discovered the truth - I confronted him with it, and with the proof that had clued me in.  His excuse for lying to me? That it was somehow my own fault I got lied to by the two of them - I was pregnant and therefore wouldn't be "rational" about it.  When I didn't accept responcibility for their poor actions, he changed his story (that's right, lied again) to say it was to "protect" me from the stress of the truth.  (More like protect Himself from the stress of me stomping a mudhole into both of them, pregnant or not.)

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 7:13:57 PM   
wanderingstray


Posts: 26
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

And what's wrong with suiting one's sneaky wishes? No, seriously.


To me it is about who I am. I don't want to sneak around like a child, getting away with things. I was a child and then I grew up. That means something to me and I prefer not going back. Once I develeoped an understanding of ethics I adopted a view of myself that rules out sneaky in relationships with other human beings. The "wrong" of it is just that it doesn't suit my personality. It is at odds with my idea of myself. My personality is based in large part on some abstract principles which to violate would be counter-productive. I have been tempted in other ways. Sex never was an issue because I am not attractive that way. Temptation doesn't last long in my world anyway because I put the two options side by side and choose the one I want. Once the choice is made it gets my full support. It's not confusing for me because I am very rational, letting my emotions follow suit. If I was primarily emotional I would probably chase my thoughts in circles trying to satisfy emotional needs. I don't have sneaky wishes. I have clear choices followed by wistful resignations of things that cannot be.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 7:49:08 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I'm going to catch some flak as a result of this post,and agree before hand that this view has enough holes in it to drive a truck thru


Hey, at least you admit it!
quote:

.Here goes...in my mind there are different classes of cheating...there is the anonymous sex ,nothing premeditated ,your bit on the ass, bite back kind.Than there is the whole "affair "thing.Now both of these could theoretically be done without hurting your partner,if the partner never find out.With the latter though even if the partner stays ignorant to the whole thing the very nature of an "affair"means your stealing time and attention from the primary relationship

Very good point and well taken.  My point was kind of the other side of that coin.  If the time spent within the primary relationship isn't all positive but spending time with another in a secondary relationship indirectly improves the time in the primary one, how can it be all bad?  I'm sure many see that theory as being pretty flimsy too but I personally believe it's a valid point.  I'm not saying it's the best, most ideal thing to do.  I'm saying it CAN in SOME instances help the primary relationship in some ways.
quote:

.....so having said all that ...I was guilty of the former victim of the latter...BTW it ended the marriage(Though I suppose it was just a symtom of a dead marriage anyway)  

Very possible indeed.  Thanks for your thought-provoking response...............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 7:50:32 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

I have been the accessory a few times but have never cheated.  There are times that I wish I had cheated such as when I found out my exwife was cheating.  I think I was angrier at myself for passing up opportunities than at her for taking them. 

 A very forthright but humorous answer, Irishknight.  Thanks!..............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 7:51:41 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterGyre
Thank you.  We've been lurking around for a while, just haven't found anything relative to say yet

Well, if your first post is any indication, I think you'll be a welcome addition to the forums.  Nice to "meet" you............................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 7:53:13 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		I've been all three parts of a cheater's triangle... None of them are pretty.  And I don't do it anymore.  Period.  It's too complicated .. not to mention stupid... there are ways to have open or complex relationships which aren't cheating... but you know what?  they are too complicated for me too. lol... but not stupid!

That feeling of being punched in the gut - when you catch your sweetie, when you get caught by your sweetie, or your lover's sweetie catches you... Sweet, it ain't.

peace,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 7:54:41 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real_Trouble
I believe that in most cases people cheat for one of two reasons:

- Inability to exercise self-control in the face of temptation (and this is a non-trivial issue, as most people have less self-control than we deceive ourselves into believing)

How true that is!
quote:


- Unwillingness to face up to other issues and using it as an escape / out

Also very true.
quote:

I try to learn from my past mistakes and have refined my world-view and approach to relationships

Wonderful, Real_Trouble, and thankfully so have I.  Thanks for your well thought-out reply................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 7:56:50 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		We desire what we desire...and whom we desire.

When one desires a person outside of their current relationship, the choice is does one pursue or not pursue that relationship.

Consequences  exist either way.  And so it really boils down to which consequences do you want in your life?


_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 7:57:31 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		I cheated 5 years ago after 34 years of loyalty, and admit it on every thread about cheating, so won't repeat the details here.  I'm not proud of it and don't believe "once a cheater always a cheater". I don't recommend  it but i do understand why it happens and i don't judge those who choose to do so.  We worked things out  and our 40th anniversary is next week.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 8:06:02 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
While you as an accessory might not have become decietful in other areas, can you Really say the same about the males who used you TO cheat?  How certain are you that they were being honest with YOU, considering that they were so obviously dishonest with their wives?

That is an excellent point, hizgeorgiapeach.  I guess I never was 100% certain, of course.  It's totally possible.  However, in most instances, it was someone I knew something about and I really believed that what they were telling me was true.  I never felt "used" at all.  I knew from the get-go what we both wanted and there were never any illusions that it was more than that.  I guess they could have been misleading me but I never felt that was the case.  It's not like they told me "sob stories" or anything.  I just knew that everything wasn't going well for them at home.  Now how much of that was totally their fault, I guess no one knew but them, for sure.
quote:

Could you say the same about Anyone who is supposedly Committed to their Relationship who goes and finds someone to cheat with?  Doesn't matter whether they are male or female, gay or straight - they made a commitment, and then lied to break that commitment, which in the long run leads to other lies to cover up the first lies

True.  But that brings me back to my original point.  Didn't the wife who has cut him off sexually make a commitment too?  Do you honestly think most men would marry a woman if he knew she was one day going to just stop having sex?  Some would, I suppose, but I don't think the majority would.  It's just like someone alluded to in LA's thread "Affairs of Men:"  Don't commit to being someone's sole source of sex, then cut off the supply completely and expect them not to get it elsewhere.  THAT'S the first commitment to be broken.  If they do get fulfilled elsewhere, that's also a broken commitment but comes from another being broken first.  I just totally believe that.
quote:

I've had a partner do some Serious cheating on me - the father of my 10 yr old.  He did so for 4 Months, much of that with someone who knew from the outset what the Truth of the situation was, since she was one of My Best Friends at the time.  It was While I was pregnant with his kid - and she knew that it was his kid, and that we lived together, and that I didn't know what was going on behind my back - not much chance she didn't, since she was often a guest in our home at My unknowing invitation!  When I accidentally discovered the truth - I confronted him with it, and with the proof that had clued me in.  His excuse for lying to me? That it was somehow my own fault I got lied to by the two of them - I was pregnant and therefore wouldn't be "rational" about it.  When I didn't accept responcibility for their poor actions, he changed his story (that's right, lied again) to say it was to "protect" me from the stress of the truth.  (More like protect Himself from the stress of me stomping a mudhole into both of them, pregnant or not.)

I'm very sorry for what happened to you.  To me, that particular situation was different from what I'm describing.  To do something like this to your best friend is a "double whammy."  She had a commitment to you as did he.  So, they both broke a commitment to you for sure.  To me the worst part was to somehow convince you it was your fault.  I don't know what, if any, issues were going on in your marriage.  But his decision to go to her was his and he should take the responsibility.  Her decision to go behind her best friend's back is her responsibility.  Trying to blame you is the worst of what they did, IMO.  Did you stomp that mudhole, btw? 

I see your points and I can certainly understand why you feel the way you do.  I hope things are better for you know and thank you for the civil exchange..................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 8:08:08 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wanderingstray

quote:

And what's wrong with suiting one's sneaky wishes? No, seriously.


quote:

To me it is about who I am. I don't want to sneak around like a child, getting away with things

quote:

I don't have sneaky wishes. I have clear choices followed by wistful resignations of things that cannot be


I know.  That's why I said that and then said "No, seriously."  I was kidding...........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to wanderingstray)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Am I the only person here who has been a "chea... - 6/11/2008 8:12:20 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

I've been all three parts of a cheater's triangle... None of them are pretty.  And I don't do it anymore.  Period.  It's too complicated .. not to mention stupid... there are ways to have open or complex relationships which aren't cheating... but you know what?  they are too complicated for me too. lol... but not stupid!

That feeling of being punched in the gut - when you catch your sweetie, when you get caught by your sweetie, or your lover's sweetie catches you... Sweet, it ain't.

peace,
sunshine

What a refreshing answer, sunshinemiss.  Thank you.  You're right, it's not the way to go.  I've caught partners cheating and it really wasn't that "punch in the gut" to me.  Master, on the other hand, won't tolerate such behavior.  To even think of disobeying and hurting Him upsets me.  I finally have something valuable enough to not want to lose it.  That's what has stopped my pattern of cheating.  I'm not sure anything else ever would have...................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 40
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