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ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

Hey ,i post on these forums, and lord knows it's chock full of weirdo's, racists, homophobes, and countless other ne'er do well douchebags.  i'll be damned if i'll be held responsible for what all these folks think....

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ORIGINAL: cjan

As usual, m'laird, you missed the point. It seems you see just what you want to see.

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ORIGINAL: sub4hire

The church was very proud of that statement as well.  So was Obama...I originally found out about the church by reading Obama's own website.  He directed people there...even though when you first get there..you get a flashing country of Africa

1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY."

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ORIGINAL: sub4hire

even black Americans are Americans. 

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ORIGINAL: sub4hire

This is my problem with the church....they are not focused on the American black population they are focused on the African black population. 

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ORIGINAL: sirsholly

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ORIGINAL: sub4hire

This is my problem with the church....they are not focused on the American black population they are focused on the African black population. 

damn...all this time i thought the focus of a church was God.
Silly me.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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ORIGINAL: cjan

As usual, m'laird, you missed the point. It seems you see just what you want to see.

If there was a point, then state it plainly.  Otherwise, your presumed refutation remains empty and irrelevant.

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M'laird, the point is as plain as the one on your head. Obama, like any candidate, should be held accountable for his own words, not anybodyelse's. As the article I linked to points out, every President, candidate and politician, at one time or another, has been associated with public and private people who's views they don't necessarily share. In McCain's case, he flip flopped from calling Jerry Falwell and his ilk "agents of intolerance", to making nice nice with him and giving the commencement address at Falwell's "University".

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Further, I understand the "Black Value System" differently than you do, sir. I think that a white person, having grown up in their own culture, has certain limits as to understanding what message is being conveyed. Perhaps, if you had been born into and grown up in and had to live evry day in a racist society and culture, you would interpret that message differently. Think about it.

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1. 'Blacks should never have' Commitment to God. “

'Blacks should never have' the strength to give up prayerful passivism and

'Blacks should never have' become Christian Activists, soldiers for  freedom and the dignity of all humankind.

2. 'Blacks should never have' Commitment to the black Community.

'Blacks should never have' The highest level of achievement....

'Blacks should never have' a contribution of strength and continuity of their  Community.

3. 'Blacks should never have' Commitment to their Family.

'Blacks should never have' strength, stability and love, despite the uncertainty of externals, because these characteristics are required if the developing person is to withstand warping by our racist competitive society.

'Blacks should never have'  membership in a strong family unit

'Blacks should never '  reach out and expand that blessing to the less fortunate.

4. 'Blacks should never have'  Pursuit of Education.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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M'laird, the point is as plain as the one on your head. Obama, like any candidate, should be held accountable for his own words, not anybodyelse's. As the article I linked to points out, every President, candidate and politician, at one time or another, has been associated with public and private people who's views they don't necessarily share. In McCain's case, he flip flopped from calling Jerry Falwell and his ilk "agents of intolerance", to making nice nice with him and giving the commencement address at Falwell's "University".

That hardly amounts to a refutation.  The Black Value System is promoted by Trinity Church as something for its members to follow.  For 20 years, Obama has been a member of Trinity Church--that, plus his numerous public praisings of Trinity Church makes the question of his view on the Black Value System and its position within Trinity's teachings material.  You cannot draw a parallel between that and any politician schmoozing Falwell and the religious right--the two instances are non pareil.

Obama has donated significant sums to Trinity.  He was not just warming a pew, he was active in the church life, and this by his own account.  With what parts of Trinity's theology does he agree, and with what parts does he disagree?  Simple enough question--unless one is afraid of the answer.

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Further, I understand the "Black Value System" differently than you do, sir. I think that a white person, having grown up in their own culture, has certain limits as to understanding what message is being conveyed. Perhaps, if you had been born into and grown up in and had to live evry day in a racist society and culture, you would interpret that message differently. Think about it.

Whatever your understanding, you misunderstand me.  I do not claim to understand the Black Value System at all.  In fact, I am quite certain that I do not.  I am certain that the language of the Black Value System is explicitly race-oriented, with potentially racist and arguably separatist overtones.  I am similarly certain that if a similarly phrased White Value System were ever put forward, its adherents would be denounced as the most evil and vile racists around.  Finally, I am certain that the next President of the United States should be supportive of all Americans, white, black, or any color in between.

I am not certain that a person who embraces the "Black Value System" meets that qualification.

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Of course, the OP is pretending that the relevant substitution should be 'white' for 'black' in his attack on black liberation theology.
It is about liberation through theology...are there that many white people who need to catch up after centuries of being held in de facto and de jure slavery by minorities in the US?

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The comparisons I made and that the linked article make, is that no other candidate , president or politician has been held to the standard that your post tries to hold Obama to. They've all been in bed with unsavory characters with extreme views.

1. Obama elected to join Trinity church while still a private citizen.  This tends to work against the idea of the political expediency explanation.
   
2. Obama himself has cited Trinity and it's pastor as a significant influence in his life.  How then, has the Black Value System and the attendant black liberation theology influenced him?
   

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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The comparisons I made and that the linked article make, is that no other candidate , president or politician has been held to the standard that your post tries to hold Obama to. They've all been in bed with unsavory characters with extreme views.

The comparisons are invalid and irrelevant.  The comparisons are only relevant if Obama's membership in Trinity was for the sake of political expediency--and I have already said I would accept and respect that as an answer to my question.

Why is this a meaningful issue?  Because:

1. Obama elected to join Trinity church while still a private citizen.  This tends to work against the idea of the political expediency explanation.
   
2. Obama himself has cited Trinity and it's pastor as a significant influence in his life.  How then, has the Black Value System and the attendant black liberation theology influenced him?

Whatever benefit the Black Value System brings to Trinity's congregation, the fact that Obama's ambition stretches beyond that congregation begs the question of whether the values and philosophies imprinted upon his character will likewise stretch.