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RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/26/2008 5:05:02 PM   
Alumbrado


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Right... you never made the statement that anyone was worshipping Obama, so now you don't have to defend it...

Trouble is, that is exactly what you said.

You also said that Rev Wright's statement's were clearly outrageous, and that it was legitimate of the OP to question them after labelling them 'odious'...and specifically responded that you had seen the ones under discussion (Tuskegee and 'chickens')  on 'TV'.

So what exactly is 'outrageous' about Wright answering a question about whether or not the US government could ever infect black people with an STD, by pointing out, as he did, that they already had?

And another question was why you found it outrageous for Wright to quote a white ambassador on his 'chickens' comment, instead of pointing out the obvious target for outrage, the author.

And finally, how are those out of context complaints against Wright, not spun or fake, just like the many against Obama?

You've pretty well painted yourself into a corner here... you made these assertions, now quit the debate team tactics, and answer the questions.


(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/26/2008 8:06:26 PM   
domexplorer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

yes, it might "sound" racist to your ears however it's not to mine.





        So when a bunch of skinheads shout "white power!" that's all ok, since there aren't any minorities to be offended?

       
Do you think that a bunch of skinheads shouting "white power" is the same as a black church encouraging its members to focus on improving the black community?


< Message edited by domexplorer -- 6/26/2008 8:11:29 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/26/2008 8:17:13 PM   
domexplorer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: N4SDChastity

  The sour taste I mentioned, that which you seem to be in denial about, is, in fact, the REAL question you refuse to ask.  The one TRULY stuck in your craw.  ASK IT, already, so we can be done with this nonsense.  ASK!!!

I ask the questions I have to ask.  If you have a question you wish to pose of me, ask it--here, if pertinent, in a separate thread, if not, or in private message if you like.

Ask your question.  I will answer.

Question.  Do you think that a black person who is pro-black must be anti-white?

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/26/2008 9:05:23 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Question. Do you think that a black person who is pro-black must be anti-white

No, I do not.




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RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/27/2008 7:20:54 AM   
domexplorer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Question. Do you think that a black person who is pro-black must be anti-white

No, I do not.



So do you think that a black church with a pro-black doctrine necessarily anti-white and racist?

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RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/27/2008 8:05:46 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

So do you think that a black church with a pro-black doctrine necessarily anti-white and racist?

Necessarily?  No, I do not.

Same question to you turned around:  Do you think that a "white" church with a "pro-white" doctrine necessarily "anti-black" and racist?


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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/27/2008 10:03:59 AM   
domexplorer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

So do you think that a black church with a pro-black doctrine necessarily anti-white and racist?

Necessarily?  No, I do not.

Same question to you turned around:  Do you think that a "white" church with a "pro-white" doctrine necessarily "anti-black" and racist?

Necessarily?  No I do not. Not unless  anti-black or racist language is used.  Both communities could use some improvement... though maybe not the same kind. And that improvement would probably best come from within.

I only asked because in your original post you seemed to interpet Trinitys pro-black doctrine as anti-white and racist.   You equated it to the KKK which includes anti-black and  anti-Jewish language in its doctrine.  And I was trying to understand why. 

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RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/27/2008 11:34:47 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domexplorer
I only asked because in your original post you seemed to interpet Trinitys pro-black doctrine as anti-white and racist. You equated it to the KKK which includes anti-black and anti-Jewish language in its doctrine. And I was trying to understand why.

Point of clarification: The text from Trinity's web site uses race-centric language, and a textual substitution of "white" for "black" in that document yields something that bears eerie similarity to statements made by avowedly racist white supremacist groups such as the KKK.

How do you see it?

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RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/27/2008 6:23:54 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		So because the Klan, and StormFront and David Duke, and the rest of the 'natural order of things' crew have dressed their 'kill darkies' message up in specious logic via dishonest rhetorical devices like pretending to espouse a sense of community for the poor abused and long disenfranchised white race, any black people speaking logically on the same topics are really saying 'Kill Whitey'??? 

Both messages the same, both groups the same agenda?


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/27/2008 8:11:31 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domexplorer
      
Do you think that a bunch of skinheads shouting "white power" is the same as a black church encouraging its members to focus on improving the black community?




       Nope.  The skinheads would be more analogous to a Panther march.  The black church would be right in line with a "Christian Identity" congregation.

       If you make it about race, it's rascist by definition.  No special allowances, no "that's different." 

_____________________________

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/28/2008 3:42:48 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado




Right... you never made the statement that anyone was worshipping Obama, so now you don't have to defend it...

Trouble is, that is exactly what you said.

You also said that Rev Wright's statement's were clearly outrageous, and that it was legitimate of the OP to question them after labelling them 'odious'...and specifically responded that you had seen the ones under discussion (Tuskegee and 'chickens')  on 'TV'.

So what exactly is 'outrageous' about Wright answering a question about whether or not the US government could ever infect black people with an STD, by pointing out, as he did, that they already had?

And another question was why you found it outrageous for Wright to quote a white ambassador on his 'chickens' comment, instead of pointing out the obvious target for outrage, the author.

And finally, how are those out of context complaints against Wright, not spun or fake, just like the many against Obama?

You've pretty well painted yourself into a corner here... you made these assertions, now quit the debate team tactics, and answer the questions.




Do you even know you're talking about, because I sure don't?  Time to lay off the pipe I think.

Did I not voice my opposition to the author, or do you just like to argue and see only what you want to see?

His comments were outrageous, and I stand by that.  Christ, most of the country saw his comments as ludicrous.  The only reason you don't is you're blinded by "Obama Fever".  You're one of the many sheep that are easily herded in.

For the record, as I've stated before, I support Obama, but with reluctance based on his lack of experience and many other issues.  We aren't voting for prom king here.  Maybe time to open up your own eyes.  

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/28/2008 4:52:55 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		'Obama fever'...sort of like Jungle Fever?  And lay off the pipe? A crack reference for an 'Obama worshipper'?

My, you sure do have a way with words, when you can't answer the questions.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/28/2008 6:32:20 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

'Obama fever'...sort of like Jungle Fever?  And lay off the pipe? A crack reference for an 'Obama worshipper'?

My, you sure do have a way with words, when you can't answer the questions.


Ok, so let me see here.  Everything I say, if not fully supportive of Obama, makes me a racist . You need to take off the racism goggles, huh?  If it was Hillary I would have said Clinton fever.  Crack is smoked by everyone, white and black, and too much by you I fear.  Pose an intelligent question and I'll try to answer.  The only thing you have done so far is to try to make me defend things I have never said and have no connection with.    

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 6/28/2008 6:35:10 AM >

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RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/28/2008 6:58:54 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

This is my problem with the church....they are not focused on the American black population they are focused on the African black population. 



damn...all this time i thought the focus of a church was God.
Silly me.



Good post, holly.

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Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/28/2008 4:19:08 PM   
Alumbrado


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

'Obama fever'...sort of like Jungle Fever?  And lay off the pipe? A crack reference for an 'Obama worshipper'?

My, you sure do have a way with words, when you can't answer the questions.


Ok, so let me see here.  Everything I say, if not fully supportive of Obama, makes me a racist . You need to take off the racism goggles, huh?  If it was Hillary I would have said Clinton fever.  Crack is smoked by everyone, white and black, and too much by you I fear.  Pose an intelligent question and I'll try to answer.  The only thing you have done so far is to try to make me defend things I have never said and have no connection with.    


I've quoted you directly and asked specific questions as to what you said, why won't you answer the questions, and why the straw arguments to distract from that?

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/28/2008 4:32:56 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

'Obama fever'...sort of like Jungle Fever?  And lay off the pipe? A crack reference for an 'Obama worshipper'?

My, you sure do have a way with words, when you can't answer the questions.


Ok, so let me see here.  Everything I say, if not fully supportive of Obama, makes me a racist . You need to take off the racism goggles, huh?  If it was Hillary I would have said Clinton fever.  Crack is smoked by everyone, white and black, and too much by you I fear.  Pose an intelligent question and I'll try to answer.  The only thing you have done so far is to try to make me defend things I have never said and have no connection with.    


I've quoted you directly and asked specific questions as to what you said, why won't you answer the questions, and why the straw arguments to distract from that?


I tell you what, ask me a pertinent question that applies to the DIRECT topic and I'll be thrilled to answer it. 

So far, the only things you have asked me are things I have never endorsed and/or things that are so far removed from the topic as to be laughable. 

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/28/2008 4:40:51 PM   
domexplorer


Posts: 11
Joined: 1/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: domexplorer
I only asked because in your original post you seemed to interpet Trinitys pro-black doctrine as anti-white and racist. You equated it to the KKK which includes anti-black and anti-Jewish language in its doctrine. And I was trying to understand why.

Point of clarification: The text from Trinity's web site uses race-centric language, and a textual substitution of "white" for "black" in that document yields something that bears eerie similarity to statements made by avowedly racist white supremacist groups such as the KKK.

How do you see it?
I reread the text and researched the KKK mission (thanks for making me do my homework).  
I still don't see a logical basis for equating the two.  The KKK doctrine states that the white race is superior.  Although I know some blacks talk the same trash,  the Trinity church text does not. It seems to me to be calling for middle and upper class blacks to not just get caught up in accumulating stuff but to use some of their resources to address black social problems.  It seems that that would benefit us all.   Would you prefer that that not happen?

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/28/2008 4:58:59 PM   
domexplorer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: domexplorer
     
Do you think that a bunch of skinheads shouting "white power" is the same as a black church encouraging its members to focus on improving the black community?




      Nope.  The skinheads would be more analogous to a Panther march.  The black church would be right in line with a "Christian Identity" congregation.

      If you make it about race, it's rascist by definition.  No special allowances, no "that's different." 
I thought this thread was about the Trinity church doctrine. Your segway into skinsheads and now to panther marches only confuses the issue.  Did you read it? Blanket statements are for the lazy which I'm sure you are not.


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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/28/2008 5:02:33 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I tell you what, ask me a pertinent question that applies to the DIRECT topic and I'll be thrilled to answer it. 

So far, the only things you have asked me are things I have never endorsed and/or things that are so far removed from the topic as to be laughable. 


I've repeatedly asked you directly relevant questions, based on your quotes, and you are still refusing to answer them.


You said that you had seen Wright's actual comments on TV:

What is the basis for your label of 'outrageous' for Wright's answering the 'could the government plant an STD?' question with a reference to Tuskegee?

What is the basis for your claim that it was 'outrageous' for Wright to quote Peck, but not outrageous for Peck to make the statement first?

Why would negative publicity from the above two incidents not be examples of being 'spun'?

Why is it 'legitimate' to question black liberation theology in the context of the OP's claim that it is the equivalent of Klan material?  How is it in any way the equivalent of violent white supremacist material?

And more recently, what proof do you have that asking such questions makes someone an 'Obama worshipper'?

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Why Obama still needs to explain Trinity Church aff... - 6/28/2008 5:08:36 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: domexplorer
     
Do you think that a bunch of skinheads shouting "white power" is the same as a black church encouraging its members to focus on improving the black community?




      Nope.  The skinheads would be more analogous to a Panther march.  The black church would be right in line with a "Christian Identity" congregation.

      If you make it about race, it's rascist by definition.  No special allowances, no "that's different." 


Really?  So a doctor who asks about a patient's race to make a diagnosis of sickle cell is a racist 'by definition'?
Someone who attempts to do geneological research on their African ancestors is a racist by definition?
A church that espouses black liberation theology is racist by definition?

These definitions?





1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.



2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.



3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racist


Or is 'that' different?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 120
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