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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 1:10:45 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

I would say, "Take whatever resources you need short of nuclear and make this man dead. Get in. Kill him. Get out."

I would phrase it "Kill him quietly and hide the body".

Corpses and convicts make excellent martyrs.  Desparacidos don't.

Which may be why the hunt for bin Laden has not been successful.  While the hunt itself is great political theater here in the US, I can easily see why, from the viewpoint of global counter terrorist strategy, the US would NOT want to capture him.

We capture him, he gets center stage--no way to avoid that.  Which is what every terrorist wants:  all eyes on him.


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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 1:17:12 PM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline 		I have to agree with you 100% on this Owner.  Clinton was hammered right and left on all of the "investigations" against his finances and business ties.  In the end all they could get him on was lying about getting a BJ while married and in office.  Now I'm not one to condone extra-marital affairs at all but I think anyone that has one is going to lie about it.

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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 1:18:32 PM   
MusicalBoredom


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Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

I would say, "Take whatever resources you need short of nuclear and make this man dead. Get in. Kill him. Get out."

I would phrase it "Kill him quietly and hide the body".

Corpses and convicts make excellent martyrs.  Desparacidos don't.

Which may be why the hunt for bin Laden has not been successful.  While the hunt itself is great political theater here in the US, I can easily see why, from the viewpoint of global counter terrorist strategy, the US would NOT want to capture him.

We capture him, he gets center stage--no way to avoid that.  Which is what every terrorist wants:  all eyes on him.



Interesting point Celtic.  I don't think I've considered that way.

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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 1:19:00 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

I would say, "Take whatever resources you need short of nuclear and make this man dead. Get in. Kill him. Get out."

I would phrase it "Kill him quietly and hide the body".

Corpses and convicts make excellent martyrs.  Desparacidos don't.

Which may be why the hunt for bin Laden has not been successful.  While the hunt itself is great political theater here in the US, I can easily see why, from the viewpoint of global counter terrorist strategy, the US would NOT want to capture him.

We capture him, he gets center stage--no way to avoid that.  Which is what every terrorist wants:  all eyes on him.



Celtic, yup, that's the order of things.
I think any military member who puts a bullet through Bin Laden's head should be eligable for that $50 million reward too!
But,...if it were me I'd make him suffer for a few hours.
Cut his balls and dick off and not only put them in his mouth but actually make him eat them!

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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 1:31:07 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

I think any military member who puts a bullet through Bin Laden's head should be eligable for that $50 million reward too!
But,...if it were me I'd make him suffer for a few hours.
Cut his balls and dick off and not only put them in his mouth but actually make him eat them!

You would send him straight to martyrdom. Bad idea.

Bin Laden is the architect of one of the worst acts of savagery visited upon the American people.  On a purely human level, he merits an equal visitation of savagery upon him.

However, there are too many in the world who idolize bin Laden, and who would hear of such savagery and make it their rallying cry.  Motivating terrorists is not the way to prevail against them.

Bottom line: it's not enough to just cut off bin Laden's dick.  Victory means taking the heart of any and every terrorist and suicide bomber wannabe out there.  I like the idea of bin Laden dead, but not if it gives his troops fresh heart for a fresh battle.


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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 1:50:20 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

I think any military member who puts a bullet through Bin Laden's head should be eligable for that $50 million reward too!
But,...if it were me I'd make him suffer for a few hours.
Cut his balls and dick off and not only put them in his mouth but actually make him eat them!

You would send him straight to martyrdom. Bad idea.

Bin Laden is the architect of one of the worst acts of savagery visited upon the American people.  On a purely human level, he merits an equal visitation of savagery upon him.

However, there are too many in the world who idolize bin Laden, and who would hear of such savagery and make it their rallying cry.  Motivating terrorists is not the way to prevail against them.

Bottom line: it's not enough to just cut off bin Laden's dick.  Victory means taking the heart of any and every terrorist and suicide bomber wannabe out there.  I like the idea of bin Laden dead, but not if it gives his troops fresh heart for a fresh battle.



Celtic, well in that case use the "Black Jack Pershing" method and fill a grave facing West with pig guts and blood and toss his dismembered body in it.
Let's see how much "heart" the savages have then.

Oh, did you hear on the News that muslims in headgear can no longer have their pictures taken with Obama?
His handlers don't want him *associated* with Muslims in, "today's political climate."
After that was reported they said "no headgear at all" to cover their asses so if you had a Stetson, a Red Sox cap or a Firefighter's helmet on you'd have to take it off to have your picture taken with him now!
LOLOL!
It gets beterer and betterer!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/19/2008 1:56:56 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 2:01:29 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		  Hasn`t it been belligerent,superstitious beliefs and conduct,that has gotten us into this mess in the 1st place?

Do we really need more and worse of it,till we`re as low and immoral as the terrorists are?

Do we throw away 200 years of history and jurisprudence,because of a rag tag group of terrorists on the other side of the planet?
        

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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 2:07:15 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

I would say, "Take whatever resources you need short of nuclear and make this man dead. Get in. Kill him. Get out."

I would phrase it "Kill him quietly and hide the body".

Corpses and convicts make excellent martyrs.  Desparacidos don't.

Which may be why the hunt for bin Laden has not been successful.  While the hunt itself is great political theater here in the US, I can easily see why, from the viewpoint of global counter terrorist strategy, the US would NOT want to capture him.

We capture him, he gets center stage--no way to avoid that.  Which is what every terrorist wants:  all eyes on him.



"Desparacidos don't."



He`s drinking tea,eating dates and having more children with his new wives,.....among other things.

How do you define "desparacido"?

Justice delayed,is justice denied.

Bush let him get away ,and you`re just making this up to cover for his failure.


Because of Bush and the neo-cons,OBL enjoys prophet status among the radicals.

If he`d been thrown in a cage and tried like the criminal he was,he would have been diminished and regarded as a criminal.

But no,Bush has to play into his hands like a chump.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/19/2008 2:22:11 PM >

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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 2:11:58 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Can we get the language right, at least? It's 'desaparecido'. Thank you  .

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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 2:15:36 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Hasn`t it been belligerent,superstitious beliefs and conduct,that has gotten us into this mess in the 1st place?

Do we really need more and worse of it,till we`re as low and immoral as the terrorists are?

Do we throw away 200 years of history and jurisprudence,because of a rag tag group of terrorists on the other side of the planet?
      


Owner, you're way out on a limb there.
You're assuming that just because you're civilized and think rationally that therefor savages do too.
Trust me, they don't.
They don't need no stinkin' badges.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/19/2008 2:16:52 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 2:19:34 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Hasn`t it been belligerent,superstitious beliefs and conduct,that has gotten us into this mess in the 1st place?

Do we really need more and worse of it,till we`re as low and immoral as the terrorists are?

Do we throw away 200 years of history and jurisprudence,because of a rag tag group of terrorists on the other side of the planet?
    


Owner, you're way out on a limb there.
You're assuming that just because you're civilized and think rationally that therefor savages do too.
Trust me, they don't.
They don't need no stinkin' badges.


Could we at least pick and chose and separate out the good guys and non-combatants ,before we un-load on them?

This "kill`m all,let god sort them out" policy, is proving counterproductive.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/19/2008 2:20:29 PM >

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 2:24:13 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Hasn`t it been belligerent,superstitious beliefs and conduct,that has gotten us into this mess in the 1st place?

Do we really need more and worse of it,till we`re as low and immoral as the terrorists are?

Do we throw away 200 years of history and jurisprudence,because of a rag tag group of terrorists on the other side of the planet?
   


Owner, you're way out on a limb there.
You're assuming that just because you're civilized and think rationally that therefor savages do too.
Trust me, they don't.
They don't need no stinkin' badges.


Could we at least pick and chose and separate out the good guys and non-combatants ,before we un-load on them?

This "kill`m all,let god sort them out" policy, is proving counterproductive.



Well that would be nice, wouldn't it?
Or as John French Kerry would say; "would that it were, would that it were."
With 14 year old boys graduating from those hate schools in Muslim countries I just don't think that we'll be afforded that luxury anymore.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 2:36:49 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

How do you define "desparacido"?


The Desaparecidos (thanks, kittin, for the correct spelling) originally were those dissidents and often innocent civilians who were abducted and killed during the "Dirty Wars" of Chile and Argentina during the '70s and '80s.  The term has taken on a broader meaning of anyone who has been abducted and presumably killed--a victim of a "forced disappearance"--without any record or trace of what happened.

That is the end I would argue for bin Laden.  To disappear.  No courtroom drama, no gravesite to become a shrine for extremists, no mythic confrontation lending him heroic status, simply.....silence. 

Is he currently living and enjoying life with new wives?  Possible...perhaps even probably.  However, by almost any cultural standard, hiding out from one's enemies while indulging in the delights of this world is a most anti-heroic posture.  Diminish his heroic stature in the eyes of his fellow fundamentalists and he is weakened far more than would be the case if he were in a prison cell somewhere.

Is it justice for those who died in the 9/11 attacks?  No, it isn't.  Neither is it justice for those who perished in the attack on the USS Cole, nor is it justice for those who perished in the embassy bombings in Mombassa and Nairobi.  There is a point, however, where justice for the dead must take a back seat to peace for the living.  The best interests of this nation are served by weakening, demoralizing, and ultimately destroying the Al Qaeda network--that may or may not bring a sense of justice for those lost in 9/11 and other bin Laden horrors.


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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 2:43:26 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I'd replace 'dirty wars' with 'fascist dictatorships'.

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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 3:11:02 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I'd replace 'dirty wars' with 'fascist dictatorships'.

If you like.  Point being, what those events demonstrate in the starkest of terms is that people who simply "vanish"  engender almost no political will towards action.  And that would be a fitting end to bin Laden, to end not with a bang, but a whimper.


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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 3:20:46 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Celtic, "a gravesite serving as a shrine?"
You know that's a good idea!
We let a couple hundred of them congregate there, no press or cameras allowed and BOOM!
Clean up the place plant some flowers and keep doing it!
Just like a rat trap.
I've always thought we should be killing members of his family one by one in hopes that he'd surface for a funeral or something.
I "heard" (through the grape vine) that the "Irish" and "Italians" in Boston have a large amount of money they'd like to spend for his brother if he ever sets foot in Mass. again "Professor" Bin Laden who taught at Harvard before 9/11 but the only thing with that is that anyone who claims it has to shoot him in public so everyone "knows"  or grab him off the street and "bring him in".

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/19/2008 3:44:01 PM >

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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 3:21:37 PM   
celticlord2112


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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 3:32:30 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		You've been listening to certain bombing enthusiasts a little too eagerly, popeye. It's not like you to be quite so bloodthirsty.

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RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 3:47:37 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You've been listening to certain bombing enthusiasts a little too eagerly, popeye. It's not like you to be quite so bloodthirsty.


Kittin, I'm not as "nice" as Celtic.
This site is a B&D S&M site, you are aware that there are Sadists in here right?

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Obama: I refuse to be lectured - 6/19/2008 3:50:34 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		May the Eternal give me strength  ...

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