RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:00:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Obama's got this one wrong:

From his original speech:

quote:

And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles.
As I recall my uncle's sermons (my mother's brother is a Presbyterian minister), a Christian takes the Bible as a whole or not at all.  There are no singular passages one can parse out to guide public policy.

Your uncle is more than likely a hypocritical liar. Have you ever seen him eat pork, shrimp or catfish? All are forbidden in Leviticus. Does he scrupulosly inquire as to whether a woman is having her period before shaking her hand or in any other way touching her? Forbidden to all men and most expressly forbidden to priests. Has he ever worn clothes made of a blend, cotton/poly or the like? Once again forbidden and punishable by death. Does he carefully make sure that neither he nor any of his flock ever have a garden with more than one type of plant in it? That's another capital crime. Does he ever do any sort of labor between sundown Friday and sundown Saturday? By this point you can probably guess that this is not allowed and is a capital crime for a priest. How well does he observe Passover? Another required act and another potential capital offense.

Even the absolute most observant orthodox jews struggle with trying to obey all the OT laws. I've never yet found a christian who comes close.



Alumbrado -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:01:53 PM)

Let us not forget the ever popular prohibition on cutting a man's hair, or shaving his face smooth like a woman's...



celticlord2112 -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:04:21 PM)

quote:

Your uncle is more than likely a hypocritical liar.

My uncle is many things.  He is neither of these.

That is the beginning, middle, and end of that discussion.



DomKen -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:05:27 PM)

The list gets real long if I list them all and I like to hold some back in case the subject tries to claim he follows all of the first batch.

I'm no longer welcome at my favorite cousin's church due to my falling over laughing when, during a shrimp boil church supper, the minister got up and spoke in favor of a state constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage and he called homosexuality and 'abomination.' He simply couldn't have been being intentionally that ironic.



celticlord2112 -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:07:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The list gets real long if I list them all and I like to hold some back in case the subject tries to claim he follows all of the first batch.

You make the same mistake as Obama.



DomKen -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:09:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Your uncle is more than likely a hypocritical liar.

My uncle is many things.  He is neither of these.

That is the beginning, middle, and end of that discussion.


You made the extraordinary claim now back it up. Either he does all this nonsensical stuff or he was lying or you were lying which is it?



slvemike4u -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:10:57 PM)

Celtic guy just call him a hatemonger and a bigot and be done with it....oh yeah one of those smiley's where they stick out the tongue ...like this[sm=fingers.gif](went with this one instead)



atursvcMaam -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:11:30 PM)

in an effort to avoid perpetrating an ad hominem attack, i am stepping back carefully before i specify.



Alumbrado -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:15:20 PM)

Errrrmmm??? One group says that Jesus preached adherence to the Mosaic laws, as he himself continued to do, as well as the Apostles... other groups claim that Jesus promised a new convenant superceding the one Moses divined, thus making it OK to ignore Old Testament 'thou shalt nots' such as those mentioned above...


If Obama is so clearly wrong, then so are the Brethren, Shakers, some Quakers, Amish, and many others who follow the 'adherence' intepretation.

Dodson and the dominionists, as well as other fundies, are pretty clear about which camp they are in. 

.



celticlord2112 -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:21:52 PM)

Your anger answers your question.

I will thank you, however, for you have answered a question that has troubled me for quite some time.



DomKen -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:26:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Your anger answers your question.

I will thank you, however, for you have answered a question that has troubled me for quite some time.


Nice try but you made a extraordinary claim so I want the extraordinary evidence. You can prevaricate and pretend outrage all you want butyou made the claim so its put or shut up time. Does your uncle obey every one of the 600+ laws of the Mosaic code contained in the OT or not?



DomKen -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 10:57:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
Dodson and the dominionists, as well as other fundies, are pretty clear about which camp they are in. 

The funny thing is the Dominionists are quite open about calling for institution of OT law but none seem to keep kosher.



knees2you -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/24/2008 11:37:35 PM)

quote:

Just another example of why I like him: Obama is making the nutcase Christians nervous. [8|]
 
Not as Nervous as If Dobson was right.
 
Always, Ant[:)]



atursvcMaam -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/25/2008 12:39:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Your anger answers your question.

I will thank you, however, for you have answered a question that has troubled me for quite some time.


Nice try but you made a extraordinary claim so I want the extraordinary evidence. You can prevaricate and pretend outrage all you want butyou made the claim so its put or shut up time. Does your uncle obey every one of the 600+ laws of the Mosaic code contained in the OT or not?


i thought your candidate put family attacks off limits, or is that only against his family.  Now that is hypocritical.



atursvcMaam -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/25/2008 12:55:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Errrrmmm??? One group says that Jesus preached adherence to the Mosaic laws, as he himself continued to do, as well as the Apostles... other groups claim that Jesus promised a new convenant superceding the one Moses divined, thus making it OK to ignore Old Testament 'thou shalt nots' such as those mentioned above...


If Obama is so clearly wrong, then so are the Brethren, Shakers, some Quakers, Amish, and many others who follow the 'adherence' intepretation.

Dodson and the dominionists, as well as other fundies, are pretty clear about which camp they are in. 

.


Thanks for some of your clarifications.  A universal understanding might have some value, but i do have concerns if the person recommending it has a difficulty with the definition of "person".  Jesus did take over the torch from his father in the new testament, and while he followed Mosaic law, he did say that the 2 most important tenets involved Love your God and Love your Neighbor as you love yourself.  He said that pretty much covered it all.  It is nice when it works.  Matthew, Mark, and Luke all offer the way they heard this.  i have not memorized the chapter and verse, but it is fairly consistent in these accounts.



celticlord2112 -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/25/2008 2:45:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Nice try but you made a extraordinary claim so I want the extraordinary evidence. You can prevaricate and pretend outrage all you want butyou made the claim so its put or shut up time. Does your uncle obey every one of the 600+ laws of the Mosaic code contained in the OT or not?

I am not the one pretending outrage.  You presume to call a man you do not know a hypocritical liar.  That is the most extraordinary claim in this discussion--one for which you do not have even normal evidence, much less extraordinary evidence; it is out of proportion to my original thesis, which was that Barack Obama's modality for applying the Bible to the formulation of public policy is incorrect.

The pretense, the outrage, and the error are in your words, not mine.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/25/2008 5:01:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Your anger answers your question.

I will thank you, however, for you have answered a question that has troubled me for quite some time.


Nice try but you made a extraordinary claim so I want the extraordinary evidence. You can prevaricate and pretend outrage all you want butyou made the claim so its put or shut up time. Does your uncle obey every one of the 600+ laws of the Mosaic code contained in the OT or not?


i thought your candidate put family attacks off limits, or is that only against his family.  Now that is hypocritical.
Well, I'll accept the hypocrisy charge if you can show me why DomKen, or any other human, for that matter, is bound by anything any presidential candidate promises.

CHIRP! CHIRP! Them crickets is loud, doncha know.



farglebargle -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/25/2008 5:18:14 AM)

"Dobson and Minnery accused Obama of wrongly equating Old Testament texts and dietary codes that no longer apply to Jesus' teachings in the New Testament."

Dobson and Minnery hate Jews.




DomKen -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/25/2008 6:13:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Nice try but you made a extraordinary claim so I want the extraordinary evidence. You can prevaricate and pretend outrage all you want butyou made the claim so its put or shut up time. Does your uncle obey every one of the 600+ laws of the Mosaic code contained in the OT or not?

I am not the one pretending outrage.  You presume to call a man you do not know a hypocritical liar.  That is the most extraordinary claim in this discussion--one for which you do not have even normal evidence, much less extraordinary evidence; it is out of proportion to my original thesis, which was that Barack Obama's modality for applying the Bible to the formulation of public policy is incorrect.

The pretense, the outrage, and the error are in your words, not mine.


You claimed he observed the bible as a whole so I asked direct questions about that. I'm not outraged or angry. I think its funny that you made a grandiose claim without thinking that someone would know enough to call you on it.

Now once more, put up or shut up. Does your uncle follow every OT law as you claimed or not?



atursvcMaam -> RE: James Dobson to blast Obama (6/25/2008 7:04:32 AM)

     Jesus' most direct response to the "Which laws are important" can be found in Matthew 22:35,40, or with a different view, same message Mark 12:28,31.  The authority to accept this word, and Jesus authority to make such proclamations can be found in John 5:22,23.  Yes, Jesus was indeed a rebel, who seemed to try and cut through the crap in an effort to stay on message.



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