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RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 9:53:20 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch
i'm asking this as a literal question out of curiosity because i've been thinking about this a lot lately. is there really such a thing as a 'failure of submission' or is there just a 'failure of submission' with person x?


When I was getting to know Sir I asked him what his expectations and boundaries were. He very clearly set them. I agreed to those expectations and boundaries. I don't expect him to "make" me live up to them. If I don't live up to them it is a failure of my submission.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to fluffyswitch)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 9:55:25 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

No 'battle' in THIS household, I have no wish to live in a war zone. she submits to Me because of who I am and because the EXCHANGE works for both of Us, allows Us the simply be who We are. I fullfill My part, the responcibilitys I took on when I accepted her submission. I didn't need to beat her down to get it... I don't jump through 'make me' hoops... I drew it from her, she saw someone she believed she could respect and trust, someone who enforces a discipline that helps her be stronger, builds her confidence, both in herself as a person and as a slave. I maintain that, continue to draw that with consistency and remaining the person she submitted to, the more she learns of Me the more she respects what she finds, the more and deeper she trusts... the deeper her submission becomes. A natural progression, falling down the rabbithole, no battle with Me... occassionaly a battle with herself, her learned responces, baggage from her past but a battle she wins because in those battles there are TWO strong people fighting on the same side, her holding My hand as I lead her through those fights.


I LOVE this!

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 6/30/2008 9:56:33 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 10:24:31 AM   
NeedingMore220


Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Oh yes, you are absolutely right. There will be internal struggles. The key word there though is internal. And yes, it may take time. But that wasn't what I was referring to. I was referring to those who are outwardly defiant in their struggle. Those who push because they want to test and see if they will be pushed back. Those who if they don't get that push back they see it as a failure on the part of the dominant....and not as a failure of their submission.



The above clarifies the OP for me a bit.  I find submisssion an internal struggle at times, for many reasons, usually having nothing to do with my Dominant.  It's usually my own internal issues or outside conflicts.  But I never want to be in a relationship with a Dominant where I am testing him or pushing and struggling all the time.  I do my absolute best to choose wisely and then when within the dynamic, willingly give my submission to him.  I see no point in the push and pull power struggle-type of relationship.  The thought exhausts me.  lol  I'd rather be exhausted from serving than challenging.  In my perfect world, I'd find peace and happiness in serving and keeping my Owner happy and content. 

Of course, all that being said, there are going to be challenges within a relationship, especially in the early stages where we are learning one another.  But it's not a battleground. 

Great topic and OP!



(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 12:11:18 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW
"it is a power exchange not a power struggle"


Very simply, that's it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 12:20:41 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		erin, I think it's just CollarMe 'codespeak' for 'I want a Dom who is physically strong ...or inteligent...or whatever'.  It's a poor choice of words, I agree.
 
In any event, why worry about the communication skills of submissives you don't know?
 
candystripper

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 12:26:40 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		No, it's not just CollarMe codespeak....I've been hearing these sentiments in real life from submissives for many, many years. What I have seen on CollarMe barely scratches the surface of the well from which I draw. Many of them I do know....some very, very well.

edited to add I think that might have sounded snippy and I didn't mean it to be....it's just that I find it kind of funny when people assume that if I post something it must be related to someone on CollarMe. There's a whole big world out there.....


< Message edited by mistoferin -- 6/30/2008 12:30:37 PM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 1:07:03 PM   
TheGaggingWh0re


Posts: 222
Joined: 1/19/2006
Status: offline 		Whereas I understand where the OP is coming from, I have to disagree a bit.

I am honestly speaking for myself when I say this, and others can agree or disagree to my method, but whereas submission flows through me freely, I am selective as to who I give 100% of myself to. This is because I can not, for the life of me, feel attraction of any kind to someone who I see as unintelligent. To me, submitting to stupidity is stupid. I want to be owned by someone I know will take care of me, who I can converse with and I don't have to teach or try to convince. If a Dom were to tell me a turtle is an amphibian, and I say no, it's a reptile, and he punishes me for disagreeing or says I'm a horrible slave...I'm going to leave. I refuse to be seen with someone like that.

I wouldn't call it a fight for me, but more of a match-up. Just like in vanilla dating we look for similarities, well that's the same thing for me in the BDSM lifestyle (or, for those of you who hate that phrase, the "style in which I live my life according to my perception of how BDSM functions"). I would not date someone who insisted and argued that a turtle is an amphibian (though I would be marginally thankful they could even relate amphibian and reptile...), I would certainly not submit to that either. For me, BDSM is more than just the spank-spank, sub-sub, blah-blah. It's the whole package and the way I "date".

(in reply to fluffyswitch)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 1:13:03 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not sure how what I said is being interpreted to mean that we shouldn't be very, very selective in who we decide to commit to. I certainly didn't mean to imply that at all....in fact I don't think that enough people are selective enough. This isn't about when you meet someone....this is about having a relationship with someone.

GaggingWhore, if you can point me to where I might have mistakenly implied such I really would appreciate it because I would certainly like to correct that.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to TheGaggingWh0re)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 1:18:41 PM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline 		I think this could potentially work in favor of the dominant. In the event that everything he wants is there for the taking - he just has to invest some time and effort to get it - then the submissive who wants to be taken is a better choice than the submissive who gives of herself willingly but with certain limits. Having someone hand you only half of what you want is no bargain if you have an opportunity to work for it and get all of what you want. If she'll walk in the door and give you all that you want without condition then count your blessings.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 1:27:00 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		The more I hear it, the more I'm convinced that some people want to live in their very own romance novel.
 
I think it's more about the heroine archetype than reality. Now, all they need is a man who fits into the hero archetype. Enter some random drama stage left. The heroine will use every shred of her feistiness to try and reign the drama in. The hero will step in at the last moment to flex his Domly abilities.
 
When it doesn't work out, it's because she was just too "strong".
 
I'll admit it...the entire thing irritates me. If I want my Dominant to do some taking, I have to give him that first inch...

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 1:34:49 PM   
TheGaggingWh0re


Posts: 222
Joined: 1/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I'm not sure how what I said is being interpreted to mean that we shouldn't be very, very selective in who we decide to commit to. I certainly didn't mean to imply that at all....in fact I don't think that enough people are selective enough. This isn't about when you meet someone....this is about having a relationship with someone.

GaggingWhore, if you can point me to where I might have mistakenly implied such I really would appreciate it because I would certainly like to correct that.


Alright, that was my mistake if I mistook your words, and I'll fully admit when I'm wrong :)

If you do mean people who are in a relationship that constantly battle...then yeah, that's not for me either. The person I commit myself to has already met the qualities I seek in a relationship. It's not my style to keep battling, though my owner and I do keep each other on our toes and love to converse about things we've learned, know, or are curious about. Some people may enjoy the 'struggle', but meh...not for me!

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 2:36:31 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you for responding. As you were the second person to say something along those lines I thought maybe there was something that I said that could be easily mistaken. I went back over what I wrote but I couldn't find it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to TheGaggingWh0re)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 2:37:40 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I understand the idea of courtship and showing a submissive what and who I am as a dominant but if your submissive chord does not respond to my dominant pluck, then I am not going to try and bring in a bigger pick to play you with.


CD....that is just goooood!

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 3:48:51 PM   
Abraxus


Posts: 56
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Erin once again you amaze me and I am so proud of how eloquently you presented this topic. We have had this conversation before and as you know I can not understand why people desire to have a battle over submission. When people battle there tends to be a winner and a loser. I prefer a win win situation where both end up happy without the aggravation of conflict. You give yourself to me freely and without conflict and still maintain your strength as a submissive woman.
I can understand the internal struggle a submissive may have within her/himself before submitting to that certain one who he/she decides to submit to. The key to any relationship is to know what you want from the relationship. What your wants, needs and desires are then search for someone who is searching for the same thing from the relationship. Then there is no need for a battle. There is no need for conflict to see who is stronger mentally or physically. There are no losers this way.

_____________________________

Master Sage

"There is no sacred law than that of my own."
~unknown

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 4:25:24 PM   
ELUSIVE1


Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

Personally, I prefer submissive from the start. Obedient.  I don't care to "win" the fight for her submissiveness. It needs to be there, from the start. 


she gives you her submission right from the start, she will also give to the one before you and after you , right from the start...what makes that special?? if she freely submits to everyone from the begining. Sounds very much like a doormat to me...I don't submit to everyone, some people are deserving of my respect, and some aren't...


_____________________________

"Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality"

*Poe
http://alt.com/blog/ELUSIVE1NC
http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/


(in reply to pompeii)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 4:32:43 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		LOL... I see people use it that way.  But the odd thing I noticed is that many many times the dominant in charge is well below the level of intelligence I see in his submissive.  But it doesn't seem to matter to the submissive at all.  Over and over I have witnessed submissives who are very capable and literate on their own suddenly doubt the right to exist because the dominant says his way is right and this is why.. then the doublespeak starts and the sub buys into it.

For me it is like a shell game.  Hide the bead of wisdom and distract, distract, distract so they don't see you have removed the object and then you make them choose.  Of course they will be wrong, there was some slight of hand to change the dynamic.

That is why for me there has to be an equal level of intelligence between he and I.  I don't want to feel the need to dumb down.  And I don't want to feel like who I am (as an intelligent being) is of no consequence.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I guess what I was trying to say is that I can't understand the need to have someone who is going to use their intelligence as a weapon in a battle for submission from someone.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 4:41:22 PM   
NeedingMore220


Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1


quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

Personally, I prefer submissive from the start. Obedient.  I don't care to "win" the fight for her submissiveness. It needs to be there, from the start. 


she gives you her submission right from the start, she will also give to the one before you and after you , right from the start...what makes that special?? if she freely submits to everyone from the begining. Sounds very much like a doormat to me...I don't submit to everyone, some people are deserving of my respect, and some aren't...




I think the special part comes when she chooses to submit to that person - that's what makes it special.  Then submitting right from the start of their D/s relationship.  It's not like she's submitting to every person she sees on the street.  I submit to the one I choose, who is my best match and who inspires my submission.  Once I make that decision, and it is accepted and we begin ... there is no battle to be waged. 

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 4:48:09 PM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline
 
Awesome post Erin !
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Over the years I've heard countless submissives and recently seen several instances of such on the boards where they say things like "I am a strong submissive and I need a really strong dominant to TAKE control". Some will say that they need a dominant who can outlast or be strong enough to squash their resistance. Some want a dominant who can outthink them and thereby outsmart them into submission. Some will say that their willful refusal is a test of their dominant's power. Some will go so far as to say that if their dominant fails such a test and they are the ones to "win out' in the end, it clearly indicates that the dominant is either not really a dominant or is too weak of one for them.

I fail to see where submissiveness comes into those scenarios. That's not being dominated...that's being coerced. That's not submission...that's losing a battle. D/s and M/s relationships should not be battlegrounds where one has to fight to win or lose. No one should have to fight for or have to take your submission. If you are a submissive and your submission is what fulfills you, why on earth would you need someone to fight you to get it from you? It should be something that comes from you willingly....out of respect, out of trust, out of joy, out of your own need to surrender...but not because someone coerced it from you, battled you for it, outsmarted you, threatened you into it, placated, bribed or bartered with you to get it. That's not submission...that's being the loser of the battle....and there shouldn't have had to be a battle in the first place.



(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 5:30:17 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I am a "strong" submissive - and for me that means i made a choice of the man i submitted to.
I chose a confident, happy, challenging, intelligent, interesting and nice man.
and he chose me.

I see our relationship as a partnership, not adversarial, and as such i get great joy from our day-to-day life.  and yes - all he has to do is cock his
eyebrow at me to "make" me do something. I am not silly enough to think that because he is nice he is easy.

I've read the "bodice ripper" novels, where the ingenue is, against her will and better sense,  drawn to the dominant man who "tames" her.
There is a reason why its fiction.  Its not real!!  If its a matter of trust - sooner or later the sub has to let down her/his barriers and take a chance.
Yes - they may be hurt, but if not, the reality is so wonderful.

(in reply to RealSub58)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Battle for submission - 6/30/2008 5:32:13 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Abraxus
Erin once again you amaze me and I am so proud of how eloquently you presented this topic.


Awwwwwww.......thank you!!!....sincerely!

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Abraxus)
Profile   Post #: 60
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